madmaths!!

welcome to another crazy read from me.,.. Be warned has crap grammar n bad spellings. lol


I normaly rant on about some maths now and again, well alot infact. Im going to try to put into contex some thing I have came across.. "better" if I can.

Mathamatics: What is it?

Well lets not talk about 1+1 for now lets think of maths as its used as a tool "or spanner" ect..

We use it to "understand our soroundings" yes? in measurments.. yes

Ok go that booger out the way..

What forms does maths take? or alteast to understand the word itsefl

many.. maths is words, art, life "refeclted" [see symmerty]

So we know it is more than just numbers? so what is MATHS???

to logicaly think? is it OUR relfective nature as humans to understand what we are in ??

YES it is !! but maths also tells you if you look close "something came befor it" something MADE maths..

Now i know that sounds dumb and u think well HEY WE MADE IT!! no we dicovered how to use "it" "understand" "it" very key words..

How does that affect humans? well we only see one side of the coin for a start.. becouse we base what we understand as to be the LAW.. when its infact not the law its OUR understanding of a level of thinking that is LAW here

and maths is ur KING for now.. yep for now, ever think why aliens have other "mayb" ways of getting here? becouse maybe aliens dont ask stupid questions like we do

WHY am i here.. who cares? WHY WHY WHY WHY.. PI PI PI is what you are saying..

never ending dumbness... to understand something is not to questoin it but learn learn from what you see every single day

Why does the wind blow?.. who cares?
What makes the wind blow.. Now i care

see what im saying??

Why do we have maths.. who cares
What is maths.. Now i care

same thing


I apply maths to maths and it gets VERY VERY ODD

1+1 = 2 ...... yeah but i knew that didnt i?

you+here = ?

leave u with that for now

reply to post by theresult


"you+here = ?

leave u with that for now"


you+here = now?

reply to post by MCoG1980


witty ; )

happens for a reason dont cha know lol

reply to post by MCoG1980


just noticed ur sig

signature
Magic is unknown science...

based on maths

reply to post by theresult


i was being sirius

reply to post by MCoG1980


lol

im just saying u know ; ) its all maths realy

I know im odd but im right and that whats the sarcy part lol

just want to add on a real note.. i never asked why i just wanted to understand..

why is pi and u will keep asking into "infinity"... ; )

[edit on 3-1-2009 by theresult]

Originally posted by theresult
reply to post by MCoG1980

 

lol

im just saying u know ; ) its all maths realy

I know im odd but im right and that whats the sarcy part lol

is that sarcy or scary

reply to post by MCoG1980


Lol well its both ofc

its mathamatics action . reaction

Problem for us lot is why? lol

mmm let me edit this...why we ask aint the matrix or something..

But we do ask for reason and it is clear in maths why we ask..

maths is our question here...



[edit on 3-1-2009 by theresult]

i can't put it into words,,, but yeah i got what your saying,,,,

it hit me pretty good


like granted,,,,, numbers or combing things in certain quantities


like adding 2 oz vinegar and 5 oz baking soda for exAMPLE

you can make a volcano science project

those 2 things react with those amounts


edit-----yeah i edited this to say----yeah i just got up and took my meds haha

but it always did,,, but we figured out the ratio,,, or math and put those values or systems,, or words on that process


did u get what i meant????


maybe,,, put probably not,,

i did get it,,,, just couldn't relay it back

how i came to vinegar and baking soda----i have no clue

[edit on 4-1-2009 by shortywarn]

Maths or at least the start of a mathematical understanding stems from an ability to quantify certain things about the world, even some monkeys show the ability to be able to tell who has more food so its only one step removed from being able to tell more exactly how much more, Numbers being a representation of a sliding scale. Being able to quantify in the world can be a useful ability when it comes to survival and humans have taken it to new heights here on earth when it comes to detail anyway.

This is how it seems to me anyway.

Originally posted by CuriosityStrikes
Maths or at least the start of a mathematical understanding stems from an ability to quantify certain things about the world, even some monkeys show the ability to be able to tell who has more food so its only one step removed from being able to tell more exactly how much more, Numbers being a representation of a sliding scale. Being able to quantify in the world can be a useful ability when it comes to survival and humans have taken it to new heights here on earth when it comes to detail anyway.

This is how it seems to me anyway.

Maths or at least the start of a mathematical understanding stems from an ability to quantify certain things about the world

Yes correct we do.. but what is maths then? a tool? a level of understanding?

Mathematics started as counting - quantifiable and measurable.

In early time, when you had "one" goat tethered you didn't need to know much else; you see the goat, you have the goat, the goat "is".

Then somebody has "many goats". They don't care how many, they just have "many". This is reflected in some early writing systems that indicate "one" and "many" logical quantities.

Then came trading, comparative trading in the form of barter and suddenly you want to know exactly what one product is worth in comparison to another. "Many" goats is worth "Much" wheat sheafs doesn't work.

So... counting, purely as tabulated forms, for instance 4 vertical marks and a horizontal mark for 5 - we have 4 fingers and thumb after all.

Lots of tabs can be tricky though, they can be tricky to count in large numbers and "groups" of tabs become unworkable so the next step is to introduce symbolic markers that positionally indicate "grouped values".

Once you get to the stage of decimal numbering systems, or any "base" numbering system for that matter, you suddenly realise that you can apply "methods" to "magically" effect division and multiplication.

Those rules lead to other rules that always work within a specific numbering system. Mathematics, quite correctly, is a system of rules developed to manipulate coded entries of quantities, originally, physical quantities.

Then came the conceptual quantity, algebra, which allowed the constraints of normal rules applied to a set of symbols to symbols that have no value except within the mechanics of the rules that are applied.

What number multiplied by itself is the same as adding 1 to it?

x^2 = x+1

Mathematics now provides latent "machines" that allow us to follow a set path of calculation to provide answers to questions. We follow a conversion from the rules to real life to discern some kind of reality.

It provides a framework in which we can describe our perceived world in quantifiable terms as answers but abstractly during calculation.

Maths is great.



[edit on 4-1-2009 by SugarCube]

reply to post by SugarCube


Totaly get what you are saying after doing lots of book reading "zzz" but still i get what you mean..

So maths is some kinda "logical" thinking path for us humans right??

if we decovered maths as you clearly point out, then used it as a tool throughout time.. history then maths has always been here correct??

And if that is the case in time maths will become nothing more than a used tool... we will move on to something els we use to understand life..

What is the question? simple STOP ASKING!! lol becouse if i keep asking and using maths i get pretty much stuck in infinity or a loop.. becouse thats how maths WORKS thats how our brain works..

I think there is something above mathamatics.. im just trying to figure out how to say it right.. i can prove it but i just dont know how to put it into words

Great post tho "as you can see i like maths alot also "

Mathematics per se has not "always" been with us. Mathematics is a method to describe relationships between variables. Those variables can be physical entities and the relationships seemingly abstract, however, since they have a "relationship" of some kind mankind has discerned that it can be represented through mathematics.

Imagine that somebody paints a realist interpretation of a landscape view in oils. The painting is a method of portraying what has been seen - the reality or actuality of what exists.

The method of using a brush and oils and canvas is a refined version of scrubbing on walls using your thumb and some red oxide as "cavemen" may have done, but - it never "existed" per se.

The scene itself, the ability to imagine the scene and interpret it, they exist - but the method of putting it onto canvas is a creation to capture the perception.

The same can be said of mathematics. Simply they are rules and methods developed to overcome the problems of counting beyond fingers and toes and in an advanced state, to describe abstract relationships between variables.

In fact, this is where it gets interesting. The "tool" of mathematics essentially has an input and an output. Parameters and results. Sometimes, the results appear to give a contradiction to our real world understanding and this is sometimes because we haven't grasped the fundamental aspects of the engine itself.

Think about a pie... a nice cherry pie. You have 2 friends that you wish to share the pie equally with and this can easily be envisaged as cutting up the pie into 3 parts from the centre outward as "wedges".

However, try dividing the "1" pie into "3" pieces using decimal notation and we end up with 0.33333 recurring which of course may imply to some that the pie is limitless in size since the recurring fraction is infinite in series.

This is also at the core of the Paradox of Zeno whereby the runner apparently never catches up with tortoise. The problem here is one of understanding in that conventional mathematics at the time did not allow for the summation of an infinite series.

The paradox itself could be conceived as mathematical sleight of hand since the maths proves one thing even though the reality is common sense and apparent to all.

This required the introduction of a new tool which allow for such methods to be applied and this is where "integration" comes in.

The point here is that we are always faced with restrictions to the capability of our "maths" to provide the answers that we actually "want" (i.e. the relationship with reality that we can perceive of as actuality).

This is important in recognising that mathematics is a workbag full of tools to describe the Universe about us. Sometimes, new tools need to be added sometimes the tools themselves are not capable of fulfilling a purpose. Importantly, we have to recognise that sometimes the tools just don't work even though everything appears to "add up".

The conversion of abstract concepts into mathematical formulae is an unforgiving process, especially when new parameters slide in "unnoticed" and get mashed up into the result - giving us what we want but without us necessarily knowing why.

The derivation of universal constants has always been an interesting subject but the esoteric mind can sometimes apply too much emphasis on notational significance rather than the actual value itself. This is significant especially when applied to dates.

Either way, it is a tool for understanding. I agree that there may be something "above" mathematics - I do understand what you are saying and also agree that it is difficult to pin it down to words - no more that saying the colours of a rainbow describes actually seeing one.

This is probably because mathematics is largely non-interactive. It describes without "being". The delight that can be achieved in mathematics is one of conversion to an experience of understanding which is why some people get so much joy from mathematics and others find it mundane. Mathematics takes a lot of imagination (excepting accountants of course, hehe).

However, there can be great pleasure in viewing an oil painting and not just viewing the scene itself.

I really rubbish with math, words have always been my strongpoint. I can see patterns/relationships in words and can understand it far better than i ever could math. Which is a shame because i really want to be good at math. I can see the importance of math but struggle with it, and am amazed by the math in architecture and in nature, and by golden ration 1.618. Must be that half of my brain which you use for Mathematics is not working properly in me

www.goldenmeangauge.co.uk...

nature:
www.goldenmeangauge.co.uk...

findarticles.com...

books.google.co.uk... en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result



[edit on 4-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

[edit on 4-1-2009 by MCoG1980]

reply to post by SugarCube


You said that very well sir

I see maths as art realy more than numbers "as iv passed that stage" .. It always bugged me what its relationship is kinda thing.

Maths gets very strange when you apply maths to itself.. ; )

Everything starts to make sens when it shouldnt kinda thing..

Try it out sometime. I did and came up with the cell theory and why we ask questions

Undestanding maths as a tool is far more important than using it as a tool if you get what i mean..

Like with the oil painting.. to view it is better than to paint it for some.. humans make life via maths "or atleast understand it" i like to view the picture maths is paiting and try to understand the canvas and the painter in that repsect.

Still no closer to what I want but im sure ill find away to understand what I realy want to say..

Up to now i think the thing "above" maths is much like our dna .. thats were im at right now with the maths thing.. there are to many loops in maths to get the answer.. so i chose to study maths in more of a step back kinda way.. not what it does but why it is and why maths ?

Hope you can help me out becouse you put down alot in better logical detail "better english" than I.

reply to post by MCoG1980


Well my english sucks realy bad lol but im great at maths.. well not great but i understand it alot better than i would english

I visualise alot with maths i never did with english more so coz i was thinking of maths lol

But i got to a point were maths could not tell me what im asking and trust me i did try alot!!.. I could not calculate why we are here..it just wont.. you get PI and Infinity.. and we both know what that means

So i thought HMMm what is maths then if it keeps looping n doing all this funny stuff... "patten".. well we see this in nature right? pattens loops ect...

Got me thinking about life.. what is the only thing that can be created and devied / grow?.. embyo/s "cell theory".. ect

But that still bugged me out "more so coz i wasnt looking for that",,, i wanted to just understand maths better and why i was getting loops

and its about us.. me you and everyone are on the level of thinking / understanding of everything "maths level".. kinda like latin vs english..

or algirba vs bog standard 1+1 ect ... there is another thing making mathmatics work and has set paramaters "even maths says there is" becouse its the logical step..

Im still not sure on what it is but im guessing its a very long code of sorts and maths is just one of many strands "acids" if you will.. in it..

12244
TGGAA

kinda like that.. or read how the body works DNA vs MATHs so to speak .. very odd indeed

i think thats why i love maths ; )

this is my reply I copied from another of TheResults topics...

result, you say that math is "pointless as a tool" but yet you base all of your theories around math (however hairbrained they may be). It is beyond frustration to know that you are 27, and your native language is English (which you told me yourself). Yet you still write how you do, it is completely unreadable. I beg of you, quit the games, if you admit to being a young kid, noones going to fault you. We are most likely going to respect you more for being honest about who you really are, and how you can in no way, write in a manner that is remotely acceptable. I understand that English people talk different than Americans do (I am an american). I have had contact for the last 4 or 5 years with Austrailians, and Brazillians. The Aussies know english, the Brazillians are horrible at speaking it (the ones I know) but I can still understand exactly what they are saying. Can you just please come clean? On every board you post, people are being confused by the way you speak, appeal to the greater good, tell us the truth.

and I wanted to add also, that you state that studieng a reading books are boring, how can you honestly hope to be taken seriously?? I'm serious man, give it up, quit the act, its not cool anymore. You are the hoax of the worst kind, you are just on here messing around, not even knowing what you are doing. Give up the act, for the sake of ATS.

People in this forum, I'm sorry to be so blunt, and harsh, but I was generally intereste in one of his "theories" (or truths, as he put it), I was willing to learn more, and he basically fed me the line of "its true, because I say its true". People like that have always bugged me.


[edit on 1/6/2009 by iwishicould]

reply to post by iwishicould


hey go easy when did i say it was true becouse i said so???

I have NEVER said i was right "meaning me" Im SHOWING YOU what you infact base you life on

Am i wrong??? Well unless maths is total rubbish then im not.. I didnt say so.. MATHS DID..

why do you think i make posts about this subject and yes READING BOOKS IS BORING.. so what? thats my own oppinon.. I STILL READ THEM

No pain no gain.. so yes flame away like i hoax.. HOW CAN I HOAX MATHS? tell me please im very interested???

Hoax lol yeah i hoax maths thats classic...

Do you even take the time to look at the evidence i show? and you ask me WHAT EVIDENCE?

Logic
Maths
Odd numbers
Life
Cell devision
PI
INFINITY


tell me sir what more evidence do you need?

That list = your life

Im showing you it IN UR FACE You can call me what you wish.. I guess if i was back in the days of old you would call me a herritk

First you flame me for my poor english.. then you say im hoaxing maths???

Originally posted by iwishicould
this is my reply I copied from another of TheResults topics...

result, you say that math is "pointless as a tool" but yet you base all of your theories around math (however hairbrained they may be). It is beyond frustration to know that you are 27, and your native language is English (which you told me yourself). Yet you still write how you do, it is completely unreadable. I beg of you, quit the games, if you admit to being a young kid, noones going to fault you. We are most likely going to respect you more for being honest about who you really are, and how you can in no way, write in a manner that is remotely acceptable. I understand that English people talk different than Americans do (I am an american). I have had contact for the last 4 or 5 years with Austrailians, and Brazillians. The Aussies know english, the Brazillians are horrible at speaking it (the ones I know) but I can still understand exactly what they are saying. Can you just please come clean? On every board you post, people are being confused by the way you speak, appeal to the greater good, tell us the truth.

and I wanted to add also, that you state that studieng a reading books are boring, how can you honestly hope to be taken seriously?? I'm serious man, give it up, quit the act, its not cool anymore. You are the hoax of the worst kind, you are just on here messing around, not even knowing what you are doing. Give up the act, for the sake of ATS.

People in this forum, I'm sorry to be so blunt, and harsh, but I was generally intereste in one of his "theories" (or truths, as he put it), I was willing to learn more, and he basically fed me the line of "its true, because I say its true". People like that have always bugged me.


[edit on 1/6/2009 by iwishicould]

but I was generally intereste in one of his "theories" (or truths, as he put it),

Oh and what one was that? string theory? came from maths

or maybe M theory "came from maths"

or maybe hologram theroy "came from maths"

Look its not my fualt you have some gripe with how i talk but please dont give me this hoax crap.. read my profile.. and what i hate most

I am doing this for a reason to get feedback on the subject i like AND NO ITS NOT ENGLISH its Bleeping MATHMATICS.. maybe you dont have a clue about maths BUT I DO so please Bring it to the table and give me a reason to listen to you other than pointless flaming.. I have lots of people who talk about this "maths" question and I listen to there views on it..

So sorry for slapping you in the head with maths if you dont like it dont read it? "deny ignorance" correct?

have a nice day!