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US Continues ‘End Time’ Support of Maniacal Israeli's Murdering Arabs
page: 4share:
reply to post by Dutty_Rag
The best answer I can offer is “We don’t know until we are faced with that circumstance.” I enlisted in the Air Force at age 18. For 4 years. I could have volunteered for the draft at 2 years, or enlisted in the Army or MC and chose my job for 3 years. I chose the AF because my idea of fighting is to sleep on clean sheets at night. Draftees were put in the infantry. That’s no fun.
Most suicide bombers are young. Mid-teens. And boys. They see the frustration all around them. They get caught up in the glory of the cause. They love their family. They want to do something that will help their siblings. Life is a dead-end. Maybe in death there will be some glory, something you can do to alleviate the suffering of those you love and respect.
It is a very old Muslim custom for the leader or ruler to make a token gift of respect to the family. Saddam Hussein paid $25,000 in cash to the family of a suicide bomber. It was not a quid-pro-quo as we belittled it, but in the eyes of the Middle East it was the appropriate recognition of the honor the deceased had brought to his family.
Exactly! Israel and America are BANKRUPT when it comes to dealing with the root causes of what we label terrorism. Although Bush43 did worse than any of his predecessors, we have always tolerated conduct by Israel we would denounce anywhere else. Osama bin Laden told us that when he laid out the 4 reasons for hitting the WTC and W-DC. But we ignore him. He’s a terrorist!
[edit on 12/30/2008 by donwhite]
A quick question for everyone. How many people would REALLY risk their life, possibly never seeing their family again - even give up their life if we talk about suicide bombers?
The best answer I can offer is “We don’t know until we are faced with that circumstance.” I enlisted in the Air Force at age 18. For 4 years. I could have volunteered for the draft at 2 years, or enlisted in the Army or MC and chose my job for 3 years. I chose the AF because my idea of fighting is to sleep on clean sheets at night. Draftees were put in the infantry. That’s no fun.
My point is that they are clearly desperate and at the very end of the line. There is no hope at all in Gaza, no future, no possible resolution to the way people are forced to live. Do people really think these men and women do this because they thrive on chaos and want to increase the mayhem? , , put yourself in the shoes of the man on the street they have no choice.
Most suicide bombers are young. Mid-teens. And boys. They see the frustration all around them. They get caught up in the glory of the cause. They love their family. They want to do something that will help their siblings. Life is a dead-end. Maybe in death there will be some glory, something you can do to alleviate the suffering of those you love and respect.
It is a very old Muslim custom for the leader or ruler to make a token gift of respect to the family. Saddam Hussein paid $25,000 in cash to the family of a suicide bomber. It was not a quid-pro-quo as we belittled it, but in the eyes of the Middle East it was the appropriate recognition of the honor the deceased had brought to his family.
You can not honestly tell me that because Israelis fear 'terrorism' they are somehow on par with the way most Palestinians feel - and thus justified in this egregious and disproportionate attack that in reality is nothing less than bullying. I'm simply looking at the situation from an objective point of view and telling it how it is - something I think many here should learn to practice.
Exactly! Israel and America are BANKRUPT when it comes to dealing with the root causes of what we label terrorism. Although Bush43 did worse than any of his predecessors, we have always tolerated conduct by Israel we would denounce anywhere else. Osama bin Laden told us that when he laid out the 4 reasons for hitting the WTC and W-DC. But we ignore him. He’s a terrorist!
[edit on 12/30/2008 by donwhite]
Originally posted by hannamtong
You have only hate speech pure and simple. I have to go to work now. The taxes taken out of my check will help protect the Arabs, Jews and other citizens of Israel. It is amazing how many people hate Jews on ATS.
I agree. I don't hate them or anyone, and we are not alone here.
I agree.
On the point about suicide bombers: I agree that a lot perhaps is down to the 'glory' or 'cult' like status associated with bombers - and also in no small part down to the fact that from a young age Palestinians are indoctrinated with hate towards Israel (some would say justified hate), through textbooks, homelife etc.
This I believe comes from problem that is two fold:
a) The desperation that I have mentioned - kids in Gaza aren't growing up saying 'Mommy - I want to be a Vet - or an astronaught' - its just not even on their radar. They grow up seeing starvation, disease, poverty, and violence - at LEASE 3 out of 4 of these are de facto down to Isreals treatment and segregation of the Palestinian population - and the control they exert over Gaza. Growing up in this environment breeds young adults who are no doubt incredibly polarised with little need for anyone to exert influence over them to become fighters or suicide bombers.
If I grew up like that and saw a very real way I could actually do something about it and change my life - and the lives of the people around me - I don't know if I personally would have the balls to do it - but I'd probably aspire to do it.
b) The whole paradigm in which people in Gaza live means that these things are very much the norm. Your a Palestinian, Isreal is the oppressor, the only solution is violence. Paradigms don't shift overnight. Perhaps their are other ways for Palestinians to achieve what they want - but this is the way it is now - things have gone too far - this is like turning an oil tanker. Isreal can't just say 'stop firing rockets' and expect it to happen. It doesn't work like that - and slaughtering however many Palestinians they like won't change that - and they know that very well.
I also agree that the way the US stands by and refuses to condemn this action is appalling. I watched today's Whitehouse briefing and no effort was even made to be impartial. Palestinians = Hammas = Terrorist - therefore any action is legitimate in wiping them out and ensuring the security of Israel. This is a majority flawed logic.
On the point about suicide bombers: I agree that a lot perhaps is down to the 'glory' or 'cult' like status associated with bombers - and also in no small part down to the fact that from a young age Palestinians are indoctrinated with hate towards Israel (some would say justified hate), through textbooks, homelife etc.
This I believe comes from problem that is two fold:
a) The desperation that I have mentioned - kids in Gaza aren't growing up saying 'Mommy - I want to be a Vet - or an astronaught' - its just not even on their radar. They grow up seeing starvation, disease, poverty, and violence - at LEASE 3 out of 4 of these are de facto down to Isreals treatment and segregation of the Palestinian population - and the control they exert over Gaza. Growing up in this environment breeds young adults who are no doubt incredibly polarised with little need for anyone to exert influence over them to become fighters or suicide bombers.
If I grew up like that and saw a very real way I could actually do something about it and change my life - and the lives of the people around me - I don't know if I personally would have the balls to do it - but I'd probably aspire to do it.
b) The whole paradigm in which people in Gaza live means that these things are very much the norm. Your a Palestinian, Isreal is the oppressor, the only solution is violence. Paradigms don't shift overnight. Perhaps their are other ways for Palestinians to achieve what they want - but this is the way it is now - things have gone too far - this is like turning an oil tanker. Isreal can't just say 'stop firing rockets' and expect it to happen. It doesn't work like that - and slaughtering however many Palestinians they like won't change that - and they know that very well.
I also agree that the way the US stands by and refuses to condemn this action is appalling. I watched today's Whitehouse briefing and no effort was even made to be impartial. Palestinians = Hammas = Terrorist - therefore any action is legitimate in wiping them out and ensuring the security of Israel. This is a majority flawed logic.
Not sure if that was directed at my post at all - but to clarify, I don't hate Jews or Isreal, but I think the world has had enough with the way the
Israeli government is warmongering in the middle east. How many invasions/incurances/strikes in the past 10 years?
Everyone has a right to live safe and without fear and to defend that right - which is I think what the Palestinians were doing in the first place.
Comments like 'they deserve all they get' or 'only themselves to blame' don't really cut it though.
Everyone has a right to live safe and without fear and to defend that right - which is I think what the Palestinians were doing in the first place.
Comments like 'they deserve all they get' or 'only themselves to blame' don't really cut it though.
It's quite appauling how all you anti-Israel, anti-Jew, anti-Semitic hate mongering, terrorist lovers have decided that Israel is the only country on
the planet that cannot engage in self defence to secure a peaceful existance for it's citizens.
And some of you consider yourselves spiritual? Dark side spiritual yes.
You would not know a white light spiritual moment if it slapped you in the face.
And some of you consider yourselves spiritual? Dark side spiritual yes.
You would not know a white light spiritual moment if it slapped you in the face.
I think Israel are justified in self defence - only this seems a rather ridiculous waste of effort seeing as every person on the planet knows this
will only fuel the fire and result in more Israelies dying than probably would have died if Israel had decided to hold back and actually look at
keeping to terms of the cease fire and not preventing aid/food/medicine/trade crossing the border into Gaza.
This is like the big guy in the playground going up-to the little guy - knowing the little guy has a flick knife - hitting him, then acting surprised when the next day, when he isn't expecting it, getting stabbed in the neck.
Only, the big boy has been stealing the little boys sweets for weeks - and only hit the little guy when he stood up for himself and called the big guy names.
The problem being of course, that big Billy was very popular at school, where as Little Jimmy came from a poor home, and his clothes smelt of # - so nobody liked him - even though his big brother Rich Ian had actually done very well for himself after leaving home - yeah - he controls about 20% of the Middle Eastern Oil reserves.
Wow - just wait till Big Ian hears about what big Billy did to his little brother.
This is like the big guy in the playground going up-to the little guy - knowing the little guy has a flick knife - hitting him, then acting surprised when the next day, when he isn't expecting it, getting stabbed in the neck.
Only, the big boy has been stealing the little boys sweets for weeks - and only hit the little guy when he stood up for himself and called the big guy names.
The problem being of course, that big Billy was very popular at school, where as Little Jimmy came from a poor home, and his clothes smelt of # - so nobody liked him - even though his big brother Rich Ian had actually done very well for himself after leaving home - yeah - he controls about 20% of the Middle Eastern Oil reserves.
Wow - just wait till Big Ian hears about what big Billy did to his little brother.
reply to post by Dutty_Rag
Briefly, the War started in 1775 at Lexington, Concord and Bunker Hill, Massachusetts. See my Note 1. It ended officially in 1783 with the Treaty of Paris but the fighting stopped in 1781 when General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown, VA. The French had been successful in blocking the British fleet that had come to remove Cornwallis back to NYC. Nearly half the men under Washington’s command at Yorktown were French soldiers. Most of the pay the Continental Army received during the war was in money borrowed from France. Same for black powder and the firearms. In fact, Louis XVI lost his head in large part because he had bankrupted France by making loans to the US. Louis was no democrat but was fighting a proxy war with England.
Americans divided into three distinct groups. One wanted to be independent, another wanted to remain loyal and the third did not care much either way. Loyalists - or Tories as they were called even then - probably numbered 15%-20%. After the War, most of them were forced out of the country and had to leave their property behind for division amongst the Rebels. Rebels probably numbered 30%-40% of the population. The largest group was the Did Not Care at about 40% to 55%. People did not keep records like this then so these are mostly guesses. Only 60,000 people voted in the first presidential election in 1789. That out of a population of about 2.5 million plus .5 million slaves.
About 5,000 black (slave) soldiers who went over to the British were removed from the US for their own safety and taken first to Nova Scotia and then on their personal application to King George III, sent on to Sierra Leone. Our supreme traitor - Brigadier General Benedict Arnold - the hero of the Battle of West Point, received a commission (a colonelcy and not the general rank he wanted) in the British Army, 25,000 pounds and an annual pension of 1,000 pounds.
It seemed no one in power in Europe ever could grasp the amount of land open for the taking over here. Every plot of land in Europe had been divided long before the Middle Ages. In 1783, the British ceded all their claims to the Northwest Territory to the new nation. “Northwest” meant north and west of the Ohio River. It included the modern states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Americans set aside every 16th section for public education as they surveyed out the land.
I think many people in England had thought the colonies would come back to the mother country on their own. But you cannot imagine how much our people were determined to have what not even a duke or an earl could have! A million acres of land! Enough.
Note 1.
The battle at Old North Bridge in Concord, Massachusetts, on April 19, 1775.
"By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breez but i heard it
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
American War of Independence anyone - If the English had despatched 10x as many troops as they actually did, and slaughtered the rebels - without the French and Spanish protecting them - would they have been justified in 'putting down the aggressive terrorists' too? Can we view Gaza as people fighting for freedom against an oppressive Israel bent on their control and perhaps destruction?
Briefly, the War started in 1775 at Lexington, Concord and Bunker Hill, Massachusetts. See my Note 1. It ended officially in 1783 with the Treaty of Paris but the fighting stopped in 1781 when General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown, VA. The French had been successful in blocking the British fleet that had come to remove Cornwallis back to NYC. Nearly half the men under Washington’s command at Yorktown were French soldiers. Most of the pay the Continental Army received during the war was in money borrowed from France. Same for black powder and the firearms. In fact, Louis XVI lost his head in large part because he had bankrupted France by making loans to the US. Louis was no democrat but was fighting a proxy war with England.
Americans divided into three distinct groups. One wanted to be independent, another wanted to remain loyal and the third did not care much either way. Loyalists - or Tories as they were called even then - probably numbered 15%-20%. After the War, most of them were forced out of the country and had to leave their property behind for division amongst the Rebels. Rebels probably numbered 30%-40% of the population. The largest group was the Did Not Care at about 40% to 55%. People did not keep records like this then so these are mostly guesses. Only 60,000 people voted in the first presidential election in 1789. That out of a population of about 2.5 million plus .5 million slaves.
About 5,000 black (slave) soldiers who went over to the British were removed from the US for their own safety and taken first to Nova Scotia and then on their personal application to King George III, sent on to Sierra Leone. Our supreme traitor - Brigadier General Benedict Arnold - the hero of the Battle of West Point, received a commission (a colonelcy and not the general rank he wanted) in the British Army, 25,000 pounds and an annual pension of 1,000 pounds.
It seemed no one in power in Europe ever could grasp the amount of land open for the taking over here. Every plot of land in Europe had been divided long before the Middle Ages. In 1783, the British ceded all their claims to the Northwest Territory to the new nation. “Northwest” meant north and west of the Ohio River. It included the modern states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota. Americans set aside every 16th section for public education as they surveyed out the land.
I think many people in England had thought the colonies would come back to the mother country on their own. But you cannot imagine how much our people were determined to have what not even a duke or an earl could have! A million acres of land! Enough.
Note 1.
The battle at Old North Bridge in Concord, Massachusetts, on April 19, 1775.
"By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breez but i heard it
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
reply to post by donwhite
The Palestinians are just a patsy for the Arab nations so they can get under Israel's skin and kill them slowly, one by one. They could offer Palies citizenship, land, jobs, homes,....they have lots of land and wealth and the Palies are their Arab brothers....but no....they won't do that because if they did there would be peace in Israel....and the Arabs won't have any bloodshed to watch on the evening news.
The Palestinians are just a patsy for the Arab nations so they can get under Israel's skin and kill them slowly, one by one. They could offer Palies citizenship, land, jobs, homes,....they have lots of land and wealth and the Palies are their Arab brothers....but no....they won't do that because if they did there would be peace in Israel....and the Arabs won't have any bloodshed to watch on the evening news.
Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by donwhite
The Palestinians are just a patsy for the Arab nations so they can get under Israel's skin and kill them slowly, one by one. They could offer Palies citizenship, land, jobs, homes,....they have lots of land and wealth and the Palies are their Arab brothers....but no....they won't do that because if they did there would be peace in Israel....and the Arabs won't have any bloodshed to watch on the evening news.
Can you contribute anything more than conjecture to this thread?
Second line is the best.
AAC
Why should the Palestinians accept citizenships, land, homes jobs in other Arab nations? Do you not know what started this whole conflict in the first
place?
Palestinians or 'Pales' to use the derogatory term you have coined - do not wish to leave the land which by rights is theirs.
I'm not talking about the whole of Isreal - but it's either a single state or a two state solution. Isreal has to accept that.
Someone here posted a map of Isreal in another forum showing the change in the distribution of land between Isreal and Palestine (as it was) over the last 100 years or so.
You will see from that - and from many other sources you can easily google - that Israel has aggressively pursued the displacement of Palestinians from Palestinian land resulting in the chaotic situation we have today.
Israel need to start making concessions, granting back Palestinian lands, learning to treat their neighbours with respect, and learning to live in a civil fashion either as a single state with a joint Israeli/Palestinian based government, or side-by-side in two well defined states, much of which would consist of land released by Israel to form a new Palestine. This sounds reasonable to most, unfortunately, not to the Israelis and a handful of extremists on the Palestinian side.
It's easy to deal with a few extremists - they like it or lump it. It's not so hard to deal with the nation state hell bend on destruction. That's the point.
Palestinians or 'Pales' to use the derogatory term you have coined - do not wish to leave the land which by rights is theirs.
I'm not talking about the whole of Isreal - but it's either a single state or a two state solution. Isreal has to accept that.
Someone here posted a map of Isreal in another forum showing the change in the distribution of land between Isreal and Palestine (as it was) over the last 100 years or so.
You will see from that - and from many other sources you can easily google - that Israel has aggressively pursued the displacement of Palestinians from Palestinian land resulting in the chaotic situation we have today.
Israel need to start making concessions, granting back Palestinian lands, learning to treat their neighbours with respect, and learning to live in a civil fashion either as a single state with a joint Israeli/Palestinian based government, or side-by-side in two well defined states, much of which would consist of land released by Israel to form a new Palestine. This sounds reasonable to most, unfortunately, not to the Israelis and a handful of extremists on the Palestinian side.
It's easy to deal with a few extremists - they like it or lump it. It's not so hard to deal with the nation state hell bend on destruction. That's the point.
Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by donwhite
You are one of the most blatantly hateful people I have ever come into ontact with.
Anti-Jewish ( I will say anti-Semetic.)
You are Anti-American ( I will add anti-capitalist also.)
You are blindly pro-palestinian ( I will add you are probably someone who cries at "The English Patient.")
Donwhite can very well defend his own words, and his own actions.
But every now and then a man must stand up aginst the people who speak such trash! Your WRONG about what you are saying in this post, and I dont see how you got any stars for that post..
Ive spoken with Donwhite many many times!! He is not any of those things you said in your post.. Your making things up to suit your own agenda.
Donwhite is a good person, and has a way with words that have not only helped me out, but Ive learned much from him...
So before you go throwing around names like you used..
Try looking yourself in the mirror and notice the names you throw around may relfect upon your inner being.
Not saying you are what you called him.. But you are sertinly not willing to hear anything other than what you think..
NO you prefer to take cheap shots, and low blow jabs at a man..
Which in my book is very low..
Your agrument is cheap! And run of the mill type stuff that is to be expected from those with your mindset..
Have a great Evening..
Donwhite IMO, doesnt spread hate.. He has damn good reasons for feeling the way he does.. And if you looked at the research and the data you might have a little empathy for him..
But you chose to spread your own form of hate..
Thats the pot calling the kettle black!!!
reply to post by zysin5
Thank you Mr Z5. Yes, I did give your post 1 star!
I'll add 2 things. 1) I'm pretty sure I'm not half as good as you have flattered me; and 2) I promise to try harder not to disappoint.
Now I wonder if you would be wiling to co-sign a loan for me?
[edit on 12/30/2008 by donwhite]
Donwhite can very well defend his own words, and his own actions. But every now and then a man must stand up aginst the people who speak such trash! Your WRONG about what you are saying in this post, and I dont see how you got any stars for that post..
Ive spoken with Donwhite many many times!! He is not any of those things you said in your post.. Your making things up to suit your own agenda.
Donwhite is a good person, and has a way with words that have not only helped me out, but Ive learned much from him...
Thank you Mr Z5. Yes, I did give your post 1 star!
I'll add 2 things. 1) I'm pretty sure I'm not half as good as you have flattered me; and 2) I promise to try harder not to disappoint.
Now I wonder if you would be wiling to co-sign a loan for me?
[edit on 12/30/2008 by donwhite]
reply to post by zysin5
Jews Continue to Engage in the Ethnic Cleansing of old Palestine
so now the fanatical American 'Born Agains' are enabling the IDF to murder in cold blood scores of unarmed Palestinians
The Arabs should reduce their output by 15 million barrels a day, (The insanity of this quote shows how CLUELESS this guy really is. "World economic collapse is COOL!")
When I travel, if I have a medical emergency, I look in the phone book for a Jewish doctor (One of the most RACIST staements ever. "You want a good doctor find a JEW...SEE I ain't no racist.")
For a 1000 years European Christians had it in their Catechism that “Jews were Christ Killers.” That laid the foundation for Hitler's Holocaust. Don't forget that. ( This one is self explanitory. "You are right. It is not Hitlers fault...it Christians!")
Ending. Many people of all persuasions seem to believe we could end this endless conflict by returning to the Six-Day War of 1967 for our boundaries. The Arabs - Palestinians - get Samaria and Galilee known as the West Bank. The Arabs get Gaza and a grade separated roadway from there to the West Bank so traffic can come and go without Israeli interference. The Golan Heights go back to Syria provided Syria agrees NEVER to re-militarize it.
Jerusalem. The Arabs get what I call East Jerusalem, but I admit I have never been there. The Arabs get what I call the Temple Mount where the al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock are located, but the Jewish people get the West Wall which is one of the supports for the Temple Mount. The UN would establish a perpetual presence there to assure NON interference with the Muslims or Jews as they seek their holy sites.
Borders would be adjusted for easier enforcement. All settlements would be removed ASAP but the Jewish people could not destroy the improvements as they are wont to do in removals.
New Palestine would be a permanent NON armed state. Police weapons excepted. And here’s what it takes to make this easy division work. The United States sends 15,000 US Army types to the new state.
The US Army patrols the borders and mans the border crossings. There would be a weapons free zone one kilometer on each side of the border. Any armed person in that zone would be liable to “shoot first” by the US Army. We are not going to go through our own King David Hotel in the Holy Land. (Holy Dog Stuff...Childish, delusional and straight from a Tom Clancy novel..Really!)
The current Bush Junior has always been known as a racist. You can’t be elected 2 times in Texas without being one! And while whites seem oblivious to it, blacks know the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND hoopla is really code words for exactly that, leaving every BLACK child behind. ( How is THAT for race baiting!)
It’s mainly a Protestant thing. Catholics as I reminded elsewhere had it in their Catechism that “Jews were Christ Killers!” After 1,000 years of indoctrination it is of little wonder to me that the Germans found it “EASY” to commit the Holocaust. I don’t know if you noticed it or not but when JP2 offered his apology to the Jewish people, he nearly GAGGED getting the words out. And if that was not enough, the Holy Mother Church managed to FIND one more slap at Jews, by naming an ex-German soldier to be its Pope! ( I forgot to mention this guy is a rabid anti-semite and anti-Christian and catholic.)
Let’s face it, the Israeli WANT to kill civilians and destroy their property.(Self explanitory hatred.)
That's why I liken the Hamas rockets to Fourth of July fireworks. (That kill innocent JEWS almost daily.)
Reverend Wright had it right! (You got it Mr. "Ain't anti-american, ain't anti-semetic.")
Read and don't swollow every word out of this guys mouth. He HATES America, he HATES the Jews.
Jews Continue to Engage in the Ethnic Cleansing of old Palestine
so now the fanatical American 'Born Agains' are enabling the IDF to murder in cold blood scores of unarmed Palestinians
The Arabs should reduce their output by 15 million barrels a day, (The insanity of this quote shows how CLUELESS this guy really is. "World economic collapse is COOL!")
When I travel, if I have a medical emergency, I look in the phone book for a Jewish doctor (One of the most RACIST staements ever. "You want a good doctor find a JEW...SEE I ain't no racist.")
For a 1000 years European Christians had it in their Catechism that “Jews were Christ Killers.” That laid the foundation for Hitler's Holocaust. Don't forget that. ( This one is self explanitory. "You are right. It is not Hitlers fault...it Christians!")
Ending. Many people of all persuasions seem to believe we could end this endless conflict by returning to the Six-Day War of 1967 for our boundaries. The Arabs - Palestinians - get Samaria and Galilee known as the West Bank. The Arabs get Gaza and a grade separated roadway from there to the West Bank so traffic can come and go without Israeli interference. The Golan Heights go back to Syria provided Syria agrees NEVER to re-militarize it.
Jerusalem. The Arabs get what I call East Jerusalem, but I admit I have never been there. The Arabs get what I call the Temple Mount where the al Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock are located, but the Jewish people get the West Wall which is one of the supports for the Temple Mount. The UN would establish a perpetual presence there to assure NON interference with the Muslims or Jews as they seek their holy sites.
Borders would be adjusted for easier enforcement. All settlements would be removed ASAP but the Jewish people could not destroy the improvements as they are wont to do in removals.
New Palestine would be a permanent NON armed state. Police weapons excepted. And here’s what it takes to make this easy division work. The United States sends 15,000 US Army types to the new state.
The US Army patrols the borders and mans the border crossings. There would be a weapons free zone one kilometer on each side of the border. Any armed person in that zone would be liable to “shoot first” by the US Army. We are not going to go through our own King David Hotel in the Holy Land. (Holy Dog Stuff...Childish, delusional and straight from a Tom Clancy novel..Really!)
The current Bush Junior has always been known as a racist. You can’t be elected 2 times in Texas without being one! And while whites seem oblivious to it, blacks know the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND hoopla is really code words for exactly that, leaving every BLACK child behind. ( How is THAT for race baiting!)
It’s mainly a Protestant thing. Catholics as I reminded elsewhere had it in their Catechism that “Jews were Christ Killers!” After 1,000 years of indoctrination it is of little wonder to me that the Germans found it “EASY” to commit the Holocaust. I don’t know if you noticed it or not but when JP2 offered his apology to the Jewish people, he nearly GAGGED getting the words out. And if that was not enough, the Holy Mother Church managed to FIND one more slap at Jews, by naming an ex-German soldier to be its Pope! ( I forgot to mention this guy is a rabid anti-semite and anti-Christian and catholic.)
Let’s face it, the Israeli WANT to kill civilians and destroy their property.(Self explanitory hatred.)
That's why I liken the Hamas rockets to Fourth of July fireworks. (That kill innocent JEWS almost daily.)
Reverend Wright had it right! (You got it Mr. "Ain't anti-american, ain't anti-semetic.")
Read and don't swollow every word out of this guys mouth. He HATES America, he HATES the Jews.
reply to post by Dutty_Rag
Dutty, you bring up the suicide bombers as though their treatment by Israel has so puked them out that they have no choice.
Wrong.
One area Westerners seem to perceive as a superior strength is the Islamic belief in the promise of Paradise when killed in the spread or defense of Islam. One tends to widen his eyes and ask, "how can they find such strength?"
Thus it is mistakenly perceived that these men and women find extraordinary dedication to sacrifice their lives in order to take the lives of disbelievers.
It may appear so, and they may say so, but this is false.
These who would "sacrifice" themselves do so not for a cause or belief, as they do so because of their utter despair an self-determination of worthlessness with no hope of changing their fortune. These martyrs have no hope. No hope opens the door for any hope. Thus is the misery of Islam.
Young people who have no choice. You get a sixteen-year-old idiot who's horny as hell, and can't even get a shot of leg! But that old bastard running the show, tells him wild tales of perpetual virgins he can just pop and pop without stopping sounds pretty good! After all, he looks around the $#!Thole he lives in and there is nothing to look forward to.
Know this. Zealots gain all their strength from the promise of hope. And once their confident hope is conclusively an forever crushed, they fall. Zealots do not exist without exaggerated hope. One will note that the leaders of Zealots continue to live and direct activity. If a true Muslim Zealot themselves, then why don't they strap on a vest and show the others how its done?
That's because they don't really believe the BS they use on young fanatics and play on their ignorance.
This has nothing to do with Israel. This has nothing to do with Palestine. This has nothing to do with Jews.
This is Islam. And Islamic fundamentalists have not only created the many problems for the local Muslims, but they want everyone around them to be just as miserable as they are.
Too damned lazy to build, too damned stupid to create, too damned sorry to work, and so the whole area looks across the border with extreme jealousy.
The Israelis have things. They build things. They contribute to the world.
There isn't one damned thing the Palestinians have contributed to the world, except provide a few innkeepers and donkey jockeys.
Hell, I'd kill myself too if I had any self-respect.
And that's the problem.
Dutty, you bring up the suicide bombers as though their treatment by Israel has so puked them out that they have no choice.
Wrong.
One area Westerners seem to perceive as a superior strength is the Islamic belief in the promise of Paradise when killed in the spread or defense of Islam. One tends to widen his eyes and ask, "how can they find such strength?"
Thus it is mistakenly perceived that these men and women find extraordinary dedication to sacrifice their lives in order to take the lives of disbelievers.
It may appear so, and they may say so, but this is false.
These who would "sacrifice" themselves do so not for a cause or belief, as they do so because of their utter despair an self-determination of worthlessness with no hope of changing their fortune. These martyrs have no hope. No hope opens the door for any hope. Thus is the misery of Islam.
Young people who have no choice. You get a sixteen-year-old idiot who's horny as hell, and can't even get a shot of leg! But that old bastard running the show, tells him wild tales of perpetual virgins he can just pop and pop without stopping sounds pretty good! After all, he looks around the $#!Thole he lives in and there is nothing to look forward to.
Know this. Zealots gain all their strength from the promise of hope. And once their confident hope is conclusively an forever crushed, they fall. Zealots do not exist without exaggerated hope. One will note that the leaders of Zealots continue to live and direct activity. If a true Muslim Zealot themselves, then why don't they strap on a vest and show the others how its done?
That's because they don't really believe the BS they use on young fanatics and play on their ignorance.
This has nothing to do with Israel. This has nothing to do with Palestine. This has nothing to do with Jews.
This is Islam. And Islamic fundamentalists have not only created the many problems for the local Muslims, but they want everyone around them to be just as miserable as they are.
Too damned lazy to build, too damned stupid to create, too damned sorry to work, and so the whole area looks across the border with extreme jealousy.
The Israelis have things. They build things. They contribute to the world.
There isn't one damned thing the Palestinians have contributed to the world, except provide a few innkeepers and donkey jockeys.
Hell, I'd kill myself too if I had any self-respect.
And that's the problem.
Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
"Palestinians or 'Pales' to use the derogatory term you have coined - do not wish to leave the land which by rights is theirs".
Answer: The terms were coined from the Pallywood videos I found on the net. CNN and all the major news networks acknowledged and exposed the fake Pallywood videos showing dead Pallies suddenly walking around. It was quite a resurrection. So thus came about the words Pallies and Pally.
"I'm not talking about the whole of Isreal - but it's either a single state or a two state solution. Isreal has to accept that".
Answer: I think they do, but not one that lobs bombs.
"Someone here posted a map of Isreal in another forum showing the change in the distribution of land between Isreal and Palestine (as it was) over the last 100 years or so".
Answer: No, the land belonged to Israel and it was stolen from them. Look at the maps from 1000 BC and 100BC. The Romans stole the land and renamed it Palestine. The area of Gaza was once the land of the Philistines. King David killed the Philistine Giant Goliath(a nephilim) and then defeated the Philistine Army.
"You will see from that - and from many other sources you can easily google - that Israel has aggressively pursued the displacement of Palestinians from Palestinian land resulting in the chaotic situation we have today".
Answer: If you read all of my posts you will find early on that I posted many videos and links from my searches. I expected people to read through all the posts before entering comments to avoid repetition or looking stupid.
"Israel need to start making concessions, granting back Palestinian lands, learning to treat their neighbours with respect, and learning to live in a civil fashion either as a single state with a joint Israeli/Palestinian based government, or side-by-side in two well defined states, much of which would consist of land released by Israel to form a new Palestine. This sounds reasonable to most, unfortunately, not to the Israelis and a handful of extremists on the Palestinian side".
Answer: Maybe you can apply for a job at the Israeli state department and tell them how to solve it!!
"It's easy to deal with a few extremists - they like it or lump it. It's not so hard to deal with the nation state hell bend on destruction. That's the point".
Answer: Yes, and Hamas is hell bent on destruction that is for sure.
[edit on 30-12-2008 by John Matrix]
Originally posted by crmanager
reply to
Read and don't swollow every word out of this guys mouth. He HATES America, he HATES the Jews.
I do read very often and try my best to stay out of this kind of mess..
You can not win with an agrument such as this. The lines have been drawn so deeply within the sands of time, that no one man is 100% correct. But to say he HATES, America, and HATEs the Jews is a cheap shot. Someting I would expect to hear from FOX news..
It always boils down to.. Why do you hate America? Why do you hate our troops.. Easy low, cheap shots to deflect the truth to the matter.
Religion has made this mess. And both sides are using their holy of holies to say they lay claim over a holy land. And that its GOD's will to do so.
THis is about Land, power, material objects, trade routes, drugs.. Control.
Under the notion of it being HOLY, or having to do with God.
The whole God BS is another cop out.
So I wont get into an agrument with you.. AS its pointless at this point.
Donwhite has done the research.
And while I wouldnt Co sign a loan for the man, doesnt mean I wont take a look at his work, and research and look at it with an open mind.
I even considered what you have to say. And you make some points yourself, I give you credit for that effort..
However its like that old adage the turd in the punch bowl.
You have a good agrument, like a nice punch bowl, ready for people to drink out of.. Then you take a dump right in the punch bowl by saying he hates America, and hates Jews.. NO my friend its deeper than just that.
And its easy to throw hate around and blame it on this group or that group.
When IMO the true issues lay in false relgions that promote death, hate and creating hate for others to jump into and claim.. "see they hate us!"
Anti-this or anti-that.. When everyone should understand religion has put us here in this damn rock and a hard place..
Id prefer to stay out of the whole damn mess.. But being the empath that I am.. I am drawn to feel for both sides..
And the ones I do feel for are the ones who are family men and women being killed over some mans holy War for more power.
Its not even about money anymore.. ITs past that.. This is about faiths, and religious hate for each group..
In our day and age, we have been jaded, and taught that this group hates you, so you must destroy them!!
I think if people sat down and really dropped the entire religion front. Things might start looking up.. But who the hell am I to say anything.
Im just an American who happens to love my country, and not just America.. I have love for all people this world over..
And when I see inncoent people suffering, its hard not to get worked up.
And at its base roots, religion is the GAS, being thrown upon this already out of control fire!!!
Keep on adding gas to the fire by taking cheap shots like you hate america, or hate our troops, or hate Jews..
NO theres bad people in every culture, every religion!!
But overall If the extreamists can all be put into a room, give them all a knife, and some body armor.. Id say have it boys!!!
Kill yourselfs, and leave the rest of us alone, and lets get on with our lives, and worry about Gods real plan.. And thats love and helping others with less. compassion and emapthy for all!!
Not just one holy group who feels they are holier than thou.
Its crazy man.. And I give you a little room to speak your mind.. I can see you have done your homework too..
Its just sad to note, that we cant get along..
And im not going to sit here and day dream, and say like some dirty hippie.. man cant we just get along!!!
Heck no! I say this.. One of these groups have to do what must be done.
Kill them all and get it over with.. Enough with all this back and forth #.
If they want to get down and dirty.. Well then.. Lets finish it!!
Lets be done with it..
Yet history has taught us this.. War never decided who was right, Only who was left...
Its a mess, and I wash my hands of this thread.. But I had to make it a point to say.. Its cheap to say what you said about hate..
Everything else, I will give you the benifit of the doubt and allow you to express your thoughts and I will listen and learn from even you.
Just don't play into the whole haters role.. Or before you know it..
You end up playing into their hands, by in turn showing hate to your fellow man..
You see those of us on different sides want the same things..
We want peace!!! Yet we agrue about how we should get that peace.
And how to make these peoples lives livable again..
Granted each side has done wrong.. And I wont be so bold to claim I hold any truth other than relgion is really screwing things up and warping peoples minds.. Manipulation at its finest..
And those who follow a spiritual path, or a religious path, they all know who manipulates and who lies.. Wouldnt that be the Devil, or what ever you want to call it...
Right the evil and darkness is in control here.
And people like myself and Donwhite are just brings another side to the story.. You dont have to like it.. Or agree with it..
But you sertinly dont have to claim anyone hates anyone.. AS maybe to you its true.. But that means you must have hate in your heart to feel that hate? You see my point? And Im not comming here to mock you or make you look foolish.. I just hope we can learn from eachother..
Thats why I am here.. To learn and understand the BIG picture..
Sure its a mess and its out of my hands.. All I can do is come on a board and speak my mind such as you.
And if makes you feel better saying such things then so be it..
Yet it will brand you permantly and show where you stand in this world.
No, we cant all just get along.. ITs not going to happen.. But we can atleast stop hurting innocent women and children!
Sure Hamas and these factions use innocents as sheilds, and make it very confusing and frustrating..
Is there nothing we can do as a world, to get these people out of there?
Then we get into the issues, Where do they go..
This place says, we dont want umm.. And the other place says well we dont want um either.. America says we dont want umm..
What the hell man??? Where can they go? Someone has to step up and get these innocents out of harms way!!! And let those who wanna fight duke it out, and just get it over with..
Its like a pushing contest.. like at the school yard..
One bully walks up and shoves a kid.. The kid shoves him back.. And it keeps going, yet no one throws a punch,, Its all puffing up their chests and sayin oh yeah.. push.. next guy well oh yeah shove..
Back and forth... Freakin duke it out already, and get those people who dont wanna fight out.. And then they can have their little holy war..
But thats not going to happen.. So I am talking in circles.. As I dont have the answers.. YOu dont.. And Donwhite doesnt have all the answers..
We are only dealing with what we are told, and research..
You cant expect us all to be all lovey dovey when kids are being blown into little fragments.. And the suffering.. Man I have a hard time sleeping at night knowing, as I m in my bad... People are hungry.. People are being killed.. And its on both sides..
You can not just blame one group, and not the other.. Its about 50/50 at this point...
Oh I wish I had the answers to this.. I truely wish I did..
But I wont claim I know 100% And Donwhite never claimed 100% truth.
He is giving you his thoughts.. and feelings you should be able to look past your own ego, and give him some room to vent..
Just as you need to vent..
NO hard feelings eh? I hope not.. WE are all humans here, and we all have families and feelings.. Its hurts to know others are in so much pain.
Thats where Im comming from.. I hope you understand that and dont take offence, and group me in with the whole.. I hate America too. And I hate Jews...
NOpe there are extream memebers of all factions.. prehaps the world needs to deal with them.. and deal with extream religious fronts who hold claim to holy lands. When Its pure bullocks!!!!
I can not tell you what or who God is.. But I can tell you what god is not.
And whats going on there has nothing to do with Gods will..
Trust me on that... if anything you take out of my post. Please know God is about love and understanding.. God doesnt want others to murder kill and steal.. And both sides will be punished in the end..
Well honestly they are both being put through their own version of hell on earth right now.. So that speaks for itself..
Thanks for listening, and taking the time to reply to me..
No offence to you.. As I dont nkow you..
You very well have people in your life you love and care for.. And maybe you have an animal you love.. So I know you have it within in you care for others.. the trick is caring for those you dont know!!!!
peace
Z5
P.s-- they even claimed David Icke hated Jews becasue when he said lizardmen, he really meant Jews.. Haters love to pull things out of the ether and make that good ole, problem, action, solution!
Its an old game, and we are getting wise to that tactic!
[edit on 30-12-2008 by zysin5]
You are either truly ignorant, or simply sorely mistaken. I have an in-depth knowledge of both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian Conflict, as I have
known many acquaintances, for years, from both sides of the aisle. I DO know that certain Israeli's do commit wrongs against their Palestinian
brethren, and just because someone is an Israeli, that does not automatically make them correct in their actions. On the same note however, certain
groups of Palestinians are Terrorists, and/or Terrorist Sympathizers.
You MUST take EVERY incident on a CASE-BY-CASE Basis, wherein you judge the occurrence in regards to FACTS, and NOT preconceived notions.
With the aforementioned placed into its proper perspective form, it becomes a simple, logical point of reality that HAMAS (and the Palestinians) began this current battle, with their having used the "Cease Fire" as nothing more than a period for Regrouping, and Rearmament. They now have Rockets with twice the Range, twice as Many of them, and Improved Tactical Abilities to go along with them as well. Israel has NO choice but to retaliate, and any casualties resulting from such are NO ONES fault, but Hamas'. Cry a River all you wish, but until you point your indignation and contempt towards the true culprits behind this debacle, you are performing a true disservice.
You MUST take EVERY incident on a CASE-BY-CASE Basis, wherein you judge the occurrence in regards to FACTS, and NOT preconceived notions.
With the aforementioned placed into its proper perspective form, it becomes a simple, logical point of reality that HAMAS (and the Palestinians) began this current battle, with their having used the "Cease Fire" as nothing more than a period for Regrouping, and Rearmament. They now have Rockets with twice the Range, twice as Many of them, and Improved Tactical Abilities to go along with them as well. Israel has NO choice but to retaliate, and any casualties resulting from such are NO ONES fault, but Hamas'. Cry a River all you wish, but until you point your indignation and contempt towards the true culprits behind this debacle, you are performing a true disservice.
Sorry, I just couldn't wade through all the sludge in this thread, so I cut straight to the end. I'm amazed that no one seems able to see that this
is classic guerilla warfare, and Hamas WANTS civilian casualties on their side. I'ts a propoganda coup. why else would they starve their own people
in favor of getting more rockets to chuck at Israel instead of food? "see our dead civilians? Ignore the Israelis we chuck rockets at, they're
soldiers in disguise! We have REAL civilians dead! Look at us world, and make the Israelis stop hitting us so we can get back to chucking rockets at
'em!" They hide themselves and their weapons among CIVILIANS to draw fire on them, and no one can grasp that, because they're busy giving them mean
old Israelis what for. Does no one recall that this whole mess started because HAMAS broke the cease fire? Ya poke a badger in the butt with a spoon,
ya got to expect to get bit. On what basis do the Palestinians lay claim to the land? Because of Israels's creation in 1948? If so, where did the
Palestinians get it from? The Caananites? Which of the Palestinians is that old?
Everywhere the Palestinians have gone, they've caused trouble. Jordan and Lebanon come to immediate mind, not to mention the West Bank. Why do you think no Arab countries want them? Their charter states that the only acceptable solution is the erasure of Israel. And folks think Israel needs to make MORE concessions? Like what, voluntary erasure? Who was it again that picks these fights?
But back to the propoganda angle. That's what drew me to this thread to begin with. The headline was masterful. I've not beheld propogandistic eloquence of that caliber since the Soviet Union fell. Now to be honest, propogand has gotten a bad name as being equated with untruth, but that isn't strictly so. Propoganda can be wholly true, partially true, or bold faced lies. The best propoganda is always based in truth, but it's the packaging that counts i.e. "Help us! Those mean old Israelis are murdering our innocents!" and then not mentioning that A) Hamas started it, B) Hamas invited the death of innocents in their SOP of emplacing their weapons amongst the innocents, and C) a blatant misuse of the term "murder", which is defined as unjustified homicide, which is in turn defined as the killing of a human being (hence the misuse of "murder" in PETA propoganda. by definition one cannot commit "homicide " against a non-human). In this case, Hamas provided all the justification necessary by attacking Israel. The blood of the innocents lays squarely on Hamas, If I were a Palestinian hunkering down in Gaza, I'd be pretty ticked off at Hamas about now. I'm amazed that Israel was as patient as they were. Would the US look the other way that long if Cuba suddenly started chucking missiles at Miami? Would Britain Ignore it if Belgium bombed London? I don't know, but I can tell you this: lobbing explosives at MY house is not recommended. The response won't have much delay.
And now we have folks that have swallowed the propoganda hook, line and sinker, and then parrot it back out, even to the point of holding protest rallies against mean old Israel. Well, all I can say is that when and if they and their Palestinian fellow travellers get their way, and Israel is no more, I do hope the master's chains lay lightly upon shoulders shoulders when they come for them, since they don't believe in self defense. And they've already selected their masters. In arabic, they are dhimmis, and the only thing left is for them to pay the jizyah, or convert. No other options available.
No, I am not jewish, and yes, I know what it's like to have your ancestors lands taken. The only thing that matters is what's real on the ground NOW.
I'm going to bed before my head explodes from this sheepish nonsense.
nenothtu out
Everywhere the Palestinians have gone, they've caused trouble. Jordan and Lebanon come to immediate mind, not to mention the West Bank. Why do you think no Arab countries want them? Their charter states that the only acceptable solution is the erasure of Israel. And folks think Israel needs to make MORE concessions? Like what, voluntary erasure? Who was it again that picks these fights?
But back to the propoganda angle. That's what drew me to this thread to begin with. The headline was masterful. I've not beheld propogandistic eloquence of that caliber since the Soviet Union fell. Now to be honest, propogand has gotten a bad name as being equated with untruth, but that isn't strictly so. Propoganda can be wholly true, partially true, or bold faced lies. The best propoganda is always based in truth, but it's the packaging that counts i.e. "Help us! Those mean old Israelis are murdering our innocents!" and then not mentioning that A) Hamas started it, B) Hamas invited the death of innocents in their SOP of emplacing their weapons amongst the innocents, and C) a blatant misuse of the term "murder", which is defined as unjustified homicide, which is in turn defined as the killing of a human being (hence the misuse of "murder" in PETA propoganda. by definition one cannot commit "homicide " against a non-human). In this case, Hamas provided all the justification necessary by attacking Israel. The blood of the innocents lays squarely on Hamas, If I were a Palestinian hunkering down in Gaza, I'd be pretty ticked off at Hamas about now. I'm amazed that Israel was as patient as they were. Would the US look the other way that long if Cuba suddenly started chucking missiles at Miami? Would Britain Ignore it if Belgium bombed London? I don't know, but I can tell you this: lobbing explosives at MY house is not recommended. The response won't have much delay.
And now we have folks that have swallowed the propoganda hook, line and sinker, and then parrot it back out, even to the point of holding protest rallies against mean old Israel. Well, all I can say is that when and if they and their Palestinian fellow travellers get their way, and Israel is no more, I do hope the master's chains lay lightly upon shoulders shoulders when they come for them, since they don't believe in self defense. And they've already selected their masters. In arabic, they are dhimmis, and the only thing left is for them to pay the jizyah, or convert. No other options available.
No, I am not jewish, and yes, I know what it's like to have your ancestors lands taken. The only thing that matters is what's real on the ground NOW.
I'm going to bed before my head explodes from this sheepish nonsense.
nenothtu out
Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by zysin5
Jews Continue to Engage in the Ethnic Cleansing of old Palestine.
That's some sweeping statement if ever there was one! Do you even know the meaning of 'ethnic cleansing'? It's absolutely disingenuous to say that the Israelis are engaged in it. They're trying to defend themselves from these Hamas terrorists who question the very existence of Israel. Like the Iranian prez who stressed the need for Israel to be wiped off the face of the Earth!
We need to understand terrorist psychology before jumping to such conclusions. Israel certainly doesn't want to wage a needless war UNLESS provoked, which the Hamas has done again for the umpteenth time by needlessly firing rockets into Southern Israel resulting in casualties.
We need to understand the broader picture. Hamas and other terrorist organizations like the Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, LeT etc., are in the process of trying to create a world Muslim caliphate which is their ultimate aim for world domination. Countries like Israel are a thorn in their ambitions and need to be taken out. They are trying to achieve this goal by a doctrine of attrition, a slow death by a thousand cuts.
And what about the 360 people killed? More than 90% are Hamas terrorists who needed to be put away and the rest civilians. In such situations some collateral damage is bound to occur.
The bottom line is that terrorists need to be put away, whatever it takes. They are brainwashed in their Madrasas to such an extent that they have almost become zombies. They're not human any more than robots are. And they think the more 'non believers' they kill, the more chances of their going to Heaven or Paradise if killed!
so now the fanatical American 'Born Agains' are enabling the IDF to murder in cold blood scores of unarmed Palestinians.
As I said, collateral damage is bound to occur in such a scenario. You haven't said anything about the murderous Hamas killing unarmed Israeli women and children. Or did I miss something?
In order that more of us Westerners get the facts straight, might I suggest this documentary on the state of affairs over there and the various
actors' shaping our perceptions of them
video.google.com...
[edit on 31-12-2008 by CapsFan8]
video.google.com...
[edit on 31-12-2008 by CapsFan8]
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