American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

Originally posted by DemonicAngelZero
OldThinker, the world that exists now has an unprecedented level of communication. Idea's can spread at incredible speeds. America was a highly christianized nation... until it became socially acceptable to choose something different. People are free to choose, but was it acceptable to choose not to be a "good Christian" in previous generations? What were the possible repercussions of not being a christian in a christian America? Believe it or not, a lot of people don't feel any attraction to christianity, but do towards some other faith or idea.

Then you have the influx of people of other faiths coming into the country, and they neither want to, nor are required to, let go of their current faith. You can quote whoever you want, but at the end of the day, different is not equivalent to evil or anti-American. That notion, that different is bad, is far to penetrating in the modern world. But isn't it in fact intolerance that is evil? Intolerance leads to hatred, and isn't hatred against the teachings of a loving God? Or... did I miss the part of the bible that says "God Hates Atheists, Gays, Muslims, Blacks, and Science"? I'm not a Christian, so maybe I skipped that page.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by DemonicAngelZero]

Good post....OT thinks that THE FREEDOM, to choose other faiths was BUILT-IN by those Christian Founders wisdom...enjoy the freedom!

Originally posted by C0le

I honestly don't understand the religious types...
.....
EVERY church I've ever been to had its own little select group of elites who frowned upon the lesser church members, and god forbid a bum in rags walk in to learn about god!
[edit on 26-12-2008 by C0le]

Get out more!!!!

OT

Women. In ancient cultures, a wife was the property of her husband. Aristotle said that a woman was somewhere between a free man and a slave. According to the book Reasons for God by Tim Keller (page 249), "It was extremely common in the Greco-Roman world to throw out new female infants to die from exposure, because of the low status of women in society. The church forbade its members to do so. Greco-Roman society saw no value in an unmarried woman, and therefore it was illegal for a widow to go more than two years without remarrying. But Christianity was the first religion to not force widows to marry. They were supported financially and honored within the community so that they were not under great pressure to remarry if they didn't want to. Pagan widows lost all control of their husband's estate when they remarried but the church allowed widows to maintain their husband's estate. Finally, Christians did not believe in cohabitiation. If a Christian man wanted to live with a woman he had to marry her, and this gave women far greater security. Also, the pagan double standard of allowing married men to have extramarital sex and mistresses was forbidden. In all these ways Christian women enjoyed far greater security and equality than did women in the surrounding culture. See Rodney Stark, The Rise of Christianity." In India, widows were voluntarily or involuntarily burned on their husbands' funeral pyres. Christian missionaries were a major influence in stopping these century-old practices and ideas.

Slavery. While it is true that Christians have owned slaves in history, it is clear that this was a distortion of biblical teaching. (See Misconceptions, item #12.) Early Christianity elevated the roles of those oppressed in society, by for example, accepting women and slaves as full members. Slaves participated equally in worship and the community. It is also true that slavery was ended in great measure by Christian activists. For example, historians credit the British evangelical William Wilberforce as the primary force behind the ending of the international slave trade (which happened prior to the American Civil War). Two-thirds of the members of the American abolition society in 1835 were Christian ministers.

SOOOOOO MUCH MORE HERE!!!!! www.faithfacts.org...

Originally posted by OldThinker
reply to post by ofhumandescent

 

Also the muslims, hindu's and other religions...come here...for freedom, both to worship...or as my searching atheists freedom NOT to ...BECAUSE of the wisdom of those founding Christians...

Absolutely agree with you. (star!) The pilgrims came to America in search of religious freedom - not to force their religion on the country. Yes, the founding fathers had their beliefs - and one of them was the that we are all born with certain rights and liberties. The right to believe what you will and not have the government intervene and force itself upon you.

The founding father's were Deists. They believed in God but also believed that he had absolutely no involvement in our lives. I'd be interested in how many times you find reference to Jesus in the Charters of Freedom.

And I'm all for the de-christianization of America. BRING IT ON. No cult has done more damage to our nation...hell to the WORLD than Christians.

reply to post by OldThinker



If America was a christian nation, that is the majority believing the promises of the jesusgod and the jesusgod being a real character and truthful.

Then America should now and a long time ago been a place of peace and good health, however it wages war with other nations without end. Disease and illness are rife, it is clearly the opposite of what wa promised to those who practiced the cult of christianity.

Jesus and healthcare cannot coexist they are antipodal neither can jesus and aggression coexist, so if america is a christian nation it is in name only.

Amercia is supposed to be over 80% christian, yet of 80% of the population require healthcare, contrary to the promise of the jesusgod that simple belief in him would heal the sick. To date we haev yet to find one verifiable example of prayer healing a sick person let alone eradicating disease.

So the conclusion has to be one (or more) of the following -

Jesus is imaginary

Jesus was a liar

Americans are liars

Americans are delusional


No doubt the ususal nonsensical excuses in relation to jesus' prayer promises will be abound.


Happy christmas OT hope your well.











[edit on 26-12-2008 by moocowman]

Originally posted by Malynn
The founding father's were Deists. They believed in God but also believed that he had absolutely no involvement in our lives. I'd be interested in how many times you find reference to Jesus in the Charters of Freedom.

And I'm all for the de-christianization of America. BRING IT ON. No cult has done more damage to our nation...hell to the WORLD than Christians.

the problem with religion is not that someone believes in it. the problem is when others are forced, to believe in/or live by, religious rules.

reply to post by badmedia


Did I miss Thomas Jefferson somewhere in that post? He was a diest.

OT
I have nothing against religion I used to attend church. I live in utah and am a non-mormon, it can be brutal(now I know what athiests feel like). If you want to cover your lawn with crosses, nativity scenes, pentagrams, thats fine but if my taxes are being used to intstall and maintain any kind of religious iconagraphy then I take issue with it.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I take a "Matthew 6:6" type veiw on religion.
Just my two cents.

Originally posted by OldThinker
“There never has been a period of history, in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundation.”

Huh? Our legal system is based on Roman law, they were NOT Christians. It amazes me that people think law and morality didn’t exist until the Bible spelled it out.

Between 753 B.C. and A.D. 1453, the legal principles, procedures, and institutions of Roman law dominated Western, and parts of Eastern, civilization. The legal systems of western Europe, with the exception of Great Britain, are based on Roman law and are called civil-law systems. Even the common-law tradition found in the English-speaking world has been influenced by it.
law.jrank.org...

YAY OT!!! I missededed you and your thought provoking threads (you were one of the reasons I stopped trolling around and became a member!)

On to the topic.

I agree that this nation was founded on Christian beliefs, not necessarily the religion. There is, in my opinion, a difference between belief in the Bible, and a belief in Jesus and His teachings. I believe that this nation was founded on His teachings.

All I can say is "only in America" would one dispute the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. This country, despite all it's problems, gives SO MUCH freedom back to the people in some ways, no where in our Constitution does it say it is MANDATORY to convert to Christianity in order to be a US citizen. There is a simple pledge of ALLEGIANCE and certain people just take it too far.

What's going to happen next? Are they going to file a lawsuit against the US dollar for having In God We Trust? Of course not, because it's what supports their lifestyle (whatever that might be).

It's hard to put what I was thinking into words haha so forgive me if it sounds a little unorganized ^.^

-JR

Originally posted by OldThinker
American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

With all due respect, sir, you are very mistaken.

America was a nation of 500 nations -- the people of the First Nations. These founders, who have been in this land for well over 20,000 years, worshiped many deities, none of which were Christian or bore any resemblance to Christianity. There were a number of different types of governments and the nations got along or quarreled with each other as circumstances arose.

Then a conqueror came with a dozen different versions of his own preferred religion (Christianity), decimated the original nations with their religion, and forced his multiple versions of Christianity on them and on each other (Lutherans, Baptists, Orthodox Catholics, Mormons, Pentecostals, Methodists, Mennonites, Shakers, Calvinists, Congregationalists, Franciscans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Reformation Churches, Hugenots, Walensians, and more.)

I think Mark Twain said it rather well: "Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them."

It is a little difficult to feel much sympathy for ANY religion which announces that it's in favor of religions freedom and then crushes all other religions that it encounters with a variety of methods -- some rather underhanded.

Originally posted by bandaidctrl
All I can say is "only in America" would one dispute the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
-JR

The pledge was actually changed during my lifetime to include the words, "under god" in it. It took several years for people to switch over to the new one... some didn't like it because it was tinkering with the original pledge.

reply to post by Byrd


Really? What was it before? I'm only 20 so under God has always been apart of the Pledge I've known.

In fact that's the first I've heard of it being changed too >.

reply to post by OldThinker


No it wasn't. America is a nation founded by liberal terrorists who fought against authority. It was founded by freemasons the majority of which saw religion as foolish.

reply to post by Byrd


From what I took from the OP was that the USA was founded on Christian beliefs. It's true before your forefathers came into the picture this was a nation of many beliefs.

Like I said, from what I understood, I was just looking at the US of A, not the many Native American nations that were spread across the country (even though it really wasn't a country before)...more like territories.

reply to post by open_eyeballs
Just wondering, did you read the OP? Did you actually read the quotes of the Founding Fathers, of the presidents, the many learned men who influenced this country? Or are you just thick headed.
There is a move in this country to undermine the basic moral principles on which this country was founded, and those of us who still believe in them are going to stand up and defend them.

Originally posted by bandaidctrl
Really? What was it before? I'm only 20 so under God has always been apart of the Pledge I've known.

In fact that's the first I've heard of it being changed too >.

Yeah they added "under God" during the cold war with the Russians (who were officially athiests) as a statement. I think it was in the 1950's.

American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

It gained independence from the mother country, Great Britain, and the Church of England lost all legal authority over the former 13 colonies. The biggest land owners in the Americas (and the Empire) was the established church of the British Empire - Church of England.

After the War of Independence, the Constitution forbade religious institutions to have control over the legislative or executive branch of government (i.e like the Church of England).

The Pledge of Allegiance "under God" was introduced during the Cold War - the Soviet Union was strictly Atheist. "Under God" was Cold War propaganda .

reply to post by OldThinker
Flag for you OT. I've been trying to get this across to people on ATS for quite sometime, and I catch the same flack you're catching now.
I wish the people that proclaim that this country was not founded on Christian principles would do their research (as you did) before posting. But it would require them to not only read history but to study the Bible as well, in order to understand how the foundations of our country and it's laws were influenced by it. It would be way too much trouble.
Thank you for taking the time to start this thread. It promises to be interesting.

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by bandaidctrl
Really? What was it before? I'm only 20 so under God has always been apart of the Pledge I've known.

In fact that's the first I've heard of it being changed too >.

Yeah they added "under God" during the cold war with the Russians (who were officially athiests) as a statement. I think it was in the 1950's.

Interesting...that changes a lot in my mind haha

not one liner