American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

Outstanding job trolling. The way you took unsourced comments by "the original Supreme Court" (not attributed to any justice in particular) and then the way, later on, you shrieked at other posters to give sources and quotes to back up their argument, that was inspired.

The way you pretended that comments by Christopher Columbus had some bearing on the political revolution almost three centuries after he discovered America, a nation started by colonists whose ancestors primarily arrived a century or two after he stumbled on the continent, and who came from a nation under whose flag Columbus (a sailor, and not a very good one, not a statesman) certainly did not set sail, that was magical.

The way you implied that Grant and Harding had something to do with the founding of the nation, that has to be galling to any thinking person who disagrees with you (which is to say any thinking person).

Best of all, cherrypicking comments from Hamilton and Jefferson (both notorious agnostics who sometimes identified as "Christian deists" when it was in their political and social advantage) was a wonderful form of irritation and gadflyism. Particularly when Hamilton's so-called deathbed conversion has been roundly rejected by serious academics. Of course you automatically discount the opinions of serious academics because they must be "anti-Christian".

Wonderful troll. First rate. Keep up the great work.

Unless you're serious and actually wanted to convince anyone of your point of view. In that case it wasn't such a hot effort.

reply to post by Clearskies


First:


My goodness, do you proof read your posts?

"Poor me".
This thread is NOT about how Christians are not given loans or given enough free-speech at work or something.

thats why when I commented on your poor me attitude, I apologized for it being off-topic.

The Christian history rarely taught anymore by the media.

this is truly funny. Apparently you were too busy watching fox news or your t.v. evangelicals the last 2 days. because for the last 2 yeasr at least cnn (the niggest name in news) has aired specials on that exact subject. the christian heritage and how christianity came to be.
so once again.......not to mention the multiple peices the history channel does on the Bible, jews, and ancient leaders of christianity.

An early Roman Christian had to work under the Caesars(Most were crazy pedophiles or psychopaths) today we have the media and CFR, Trilateral commission, Bilderberg etc....

huh!?..what the heck are you talking about?

I see a VAST role played by them in disenfranchising the 'commoners' from religion and people like you towing the line for them.

double, huh!? WHAAAAA???

WOW..ive been accused of alot of things, but never have I beenaccused of "towing the lione" for the ptb....that is the funniest thing...you should start selling this stuff..your good.

All the while the Vatican works right in there with the PTB gaining political control.
Might makes right?

do u actually believe this stuff??

can u give one iota of an example of anything you are saying?

yes, in mideival times through the renaissance the catholic church played a huge role in politics and the forming of many countries that lay on the western border of Europe...the catholic church today plays the stock market and is the only real way they are still in business...

wow...who taught you all your 'knowledge'?

edit to add:
most catholics are seriously poor. I would give a ratio of 10,000 to 1. And that one is usually so rich he makes up for the 10,000.

hows that for a religion, eh?

[edit on 26-12-2008 by open_eyeballs]

Originally posted by OldThinker
I dunno, maybe its me….but American shouldn’t forget from whence it came????????????

OT (sittin’ under the light of his Christmas tree
Merry Christmas ATS-ers!
God is love!!! For unto us a Son is given!!!!!!

Sorry, but I won't believe in Christianity just because people two and three centuries ago did too. Give me a break.

I'll do it for real reasons if I want to, but that's just insulting to our intelligence.

Hrm I thought it was founded by Native American Indians and their various tribes until the fine Christians came over and swindled them land for beads and other fine worthless trinkets and spread syphilis, smallpox and other disease while uprooting entire villages from their homeland. To add more great founding they were promised and delivered death, enslavement, and violence.

Nothing says righteous like taking advantage of the vulnerable.

OldThinker, the world that exists now has an unprecedented level of communication. Idea's can spread at incredible speeds. America was a highly christianized nation... until it became socially acceptable to choose something different. People are free to choose, but was it acceptable to choose not to be a "good Christian" in previous generations? What were the possible repercussions of not being a christian in a christian America? Believe it or not, a lot of people don't feel any attraction to christianity, but do towards some other faith or idea.

Then you have the influx of people of other faiths coming into the country, and they neither want to, nor are required to, let go of their current faith. You can quote whoever you want, but at the end of the day, different is not equivalent to evil or anti-American. That notion, that different is bad, is far to penetrating in the modern world. But isn't it in fact intolerance that is evil? Intolerance leads to hatred, and isn't hatred against the teachings of a loving God? Or... did I miss the part of the bible that says "God Hates Atheists, Gays, Muslims, Blacks, and Science"? I'm not a Christian, so maybe I skipped that page.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by DemonicAngelZero]

what are you guy's talking about?

first of all the first people here were the Indians they had they're own beliefs then when the British came they brought Christianity with them. and also there is no Roman Christian it was Roman Catholic

Originally posted by open_eyeballs


My goodness, do you proof read your posts?

What, my spelling?

thats why when I commented on your poor me attitude, I apologized for it being off-topic.

So, you DON'T think I have a 'poor me' attitude?

Apparently you were too busy watching fox news or your t.v. evangelicals the last 2 days. because for the last 2 yeasr at least cnn (the niggest name in news) has aired specials on that exact subject. the christian heritage and how christianity came to be.

I haven't been watching much Of ANY T.V. lately.
I guess they might for Christmas.

An early Roman Christian had to work under the Caesars(Most were crazy pedophiles or psychopaths) today we have the media and CFR, Trilateral commission, Bilderberg etc....

huh!?

..what the heck are you talking about?

Mad Emporors of Rome?
Mad rulers of today?

All the while the Vatican works right in there with the PTB gaining political control.
Might makes right?

do u actually believe this stuff??

can u give one iota of an example of anything you are saying?

Are you saying you don't know about the Pope's influences ALL OVER the world?
How the vatican backed Charlemagne, Napoleon, Hitler, Mussolini?
Concordatwatch
The Vatican, E.U., U.N. and the Balkans

Vatican Control Through Civil Law









[edit on 26-12-2008 by Clearskies]

I don't see how people in 1st world countries still believe in any type of God.
There has never been any real proof of a higher power creating anything.
Religion was invented by stone age people looking for hope and explanation.
Its a good example to live by but no religion practices what they preach. They still start wars and kill innocent people for no reason except difference.

Religion is the downfall of society and we would be better off without it.
All you people holding on to your archaic beliefs need to let go and start living for yourself. Nobody is going to save you in the end. When your dead,your dead. The end.

Originally posted by toochaos4u
Hrm I thought it was founded by Native American Indians and their various tribes until the fine Christians came over and swindled them land for beads and other fine worthless trinkets and spread syphilis, smallpox and other disease while uprooting entire villages from their homeland. To add more great founding they were promised and delivered death, enslavement, and violence.

Nothing says righteous like taking advantage of the vulnerable.

THANK YOU


Nothing says lovin like Manifest Destiny, and it destroyed my tribe along with so many others.


What's really nice and hypocritical is that people spew off about how America is founded on Christian beliefs and that the Constitution is based on the bible, and yet the truth is that it was based largely on the tenets of the Iroquois Confederation.

So, they spout off about how wonderful it is to be a Christian based nation, and enjoying the freedoms that the Christian founders saw fit to include, based on their biblical beliefs (i've heard that said so many times by Christians)... and yet the very peoples that were decimated and destroyed when they were invaded are what they based their foundational beliefs upon.


Sad... so very sad, and history is repeating itself.


(From wikipedia regarding the Iroquois influence upon the Founding Fathers)
"In 2004 the U.S. Government acknowledged the influence of the Iroquois Constitution on the U.S. Framers.[15] The Smithsonian Institution also noted the similarities between the two documents, as well as the differences. One significant difference noted was the inclusion of women in the Iroquois Constitution, one group among many that the framers of the U.S. Constitution did not include."



Look, seriously, a lot of people who are not religious have no issues with people practicing their religion. I think it can be a healthy thing to do, when done correctly, and non-fanatically. But that also does not mean that we will sit by while people try to cram it down our throats on a constant basis, and we WILL speak back about it when needed.

And again, quite frankly, I am not about to sit and listen to someone complaining about how their "religious rights" are being infringed upon, when my tribe and so many others were very nearly eradicated, their ways of life and belief stripped away, violently, and without apology to this very day. Most of us still have to live on reservations. Do you?


Seriously. So many threads filled with people who claim "religious freedom" and trying to force their ways on everyone else, regardless of that other persons beliefs. That's from both sides, mind you. Not just one.

Live with your freedom if you wish.. Worship how you will, whom you will, but do not tread upon the soil of another man's house without exprecting to be questioned.


As to OT giving out these posts full of quotes from those loving christian men, mind if i ask you to try to find quotes talking about their apologizing for what they and their forefathers did to our people? The ones that were here all along, long before those forefathers claimed this land in the name of Manifest Destiny? Maybe even a one-liner that speaks of their gibing all the same freedoms you enjoy today to those who were originally here?

Oh, wait. I can already tell you... you won't find any. They didn't care to speak about their freedoms. That would have gotten in the way.


America was not founded on Christian principles like you claim. It was founded on blood, from day one, and it is still flowing today.

Oh wait... maybe that IS Christian, after all.



Sorry for the long post, but it needed to be said.

reply to post by OldThinker


People woke up and realized they didn't need to be afraid of a mythical guy in white robe and beard or slick dude in horns and tail. They came to the understanding that religion is a tool to control the masses.

ZIONIST WAR ON GENTILE TRADITIONS
ZIONIST CONTROL OF ALL MEDIA
when i was a kid they played "JESUS OF NAZARETH" during
Christmas, you dont and wont see that anymore
thats because the ZIONIST run the stations now
you might see "the TEN COMMANDMENTS" you know why
cuz the ZIONIST will accept old testiment but loath the
new testiment and CHRISTIANITY

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by OldThinker
I dunno, maybe its me….but American shouldn’t forget from whence it came????????????

OT (sittin’ under the light of his Christmas tree
Merry Christmas ATS-ers!
God is love!!! For unto us a Son is given!!!!!!

Sorry, but I won't believe in Christianity just because people two and three centuries ago did too. Give me a break.

I'll do it for real reasons if I want to, but that's just insulting to our intelligence.

??????????

Where did I say I believe (or any one else should to) because some prior generations believed?

I think you misse the point!

OT

Originally posted by toochaos4u
Hrm I thought it was founded by Native American Indians and their various tribes until the fine Christians came over and swindled them land for beads and other fine worthless trinkets and spread syphilis, smallpox and other disease while uprooting entire villages from their homeland. To add more great founding they were promised and delivered death, enslavement, and violence.

Nothing says righteous like taking advantage of the vulnerable.

If your post is hoping to convey mistakes I concede....if you are sayhing things would be better for MORE people today, if things stayed as they were, you've been watching too mant TNT re-runs of Kevin
Costner in Dances With Wolves!!!!!

Originally posted by Darkice19
I don't see how people in 1st world countries still believe in any type of God.
There has never been any real proof of a higher power creating anything.
Religion was invented by stone age people looking for hope and explanation.
Its a good example to live by but no religion practices what they preach. They still start wars and kill innocent people for no reason except difference.

Religion is the downfall of society and we would be better off without it.
All you people holding on to your archaic beliefs need to let go and start living for yourself. Nobody is going to save you in the end. When your dead,your dead. The end.

Thank you for the post, albeit naive...

OT

Originally posted by Jomina

Look, seriously....

Seriously.....

As to OT giving out these posts full of quotes from those loving christian men, mind if i ask you to try to find quotes talking about their apologizing for what they and their forefathers did to our people?


America was not founded on Christian principles like you claim.

First of all...if you have to say seriously all that much, your post is sub par....and the rest of it was too whiny to be taken 'seriously'....seriously.

THe church is doing much good for "your people" as you say...

Within The United Methodist Church are local Native American congregations that are vital to the communities they serve. We have congregations that stretch from Ft. Yuma UMC in the southwest corner of the United States to Hogansburg UMC on the Akwesasne Mohawk reservation near the northeastern corner of the United States—and at least 170 more places in between. Some have existed since before statehood, such as the Oneida Mission in the Wisconsin Annual Conference. Oneida was formed in 1830, 18 years before statehood. In Oklahoma, the first Methodist churches were built by Native Americans who endured the infamous "Trail of Tears." And today, there is a vitality within the 86 congregations that make up the Oklahoma Indian Missionary Conference. Vitality does not always equal "viability in terms of sustainability" in general church terms, but the churches are very important to our communities.

I'd say if YOU put as much energy in bettering yourself, ie education, forgiveness, moving on, etc and less time whinning, you'd be happier!!!

Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer
reply to post by OldThinker

 

People woke up and realized they didn't need to be afraid of a mythical guy in white robe and beard or slick dude in horns and tail. They came to the understanding that religion is a tool to control the masses.

"Control the masses" ??????????


Where do you come up with something like this??

OT thinks TinkerBell is the controling one...have you seen the masses going to DisneyWorld? And the money they garnish?

Tongue and cheek i know...