Why are non-believers/sinners persecuted?

Why are people persecuted for their choice of lifestyle,the things they teach,the things they learn,the things they watch/listen to etc etc?


Scripture tells us that we have free will,that we have a choice to live as we want.It directs people to choose the righteous path,but it does not force people onto it.To do so would mean that there is no free will.

To persecute people for expressing their divine right is to go against the Scripture.To say that you have freedom to believe but others should not be allowed to disbelieve,is to go against the Scripture.Those who would force their religious views and morals onto others are taking away their free will.


Dante Alighieri in The Divine Comedy wrote;
The greatest gift which God in his bounty bestowed in creating humans,and the most conformed to his own goodness,and that which he prizes the most,was the freedom of the will.

Well belief and worship/obedience are different, the bible says the devils believe, and they are destined to hell. I would say save your breath and excuses for judgement day, we don't have to give account for God's rules.If you choose to not obey you also choose the consequences man up to it, there's no free lunch!

I find it ironic that religious fold think there is free will.

According to the Bible, God seems to already konw everything....he came through prophets letting them know what was going to happen in the future. So if the prophecy was right, then God already knew that many would have to die for the land of Israel. God knew that someone was going to have to kill (go against a commandment) in order for his son to be a sacrafice. God knew that the seperating of lands would lead to wars.

In fact, God knows that only 144.000 will ascend to him (or something like that). So, I say to religious folks....Is God fortelling or is it simply God knows how we all play out the play....not really being free will at all.

If God knew Eve would eat the apple....where was Eve's free will? Some say, but God didnt know Eve would eat the apple....well then were back at square one...God is NOT all knowing.

Its a circle of trying to make reasons for something that makes no sense.

Im more along the lines that God knows us more then we know our self. We are a reflection of something that happened in the heavens....the act has done been scripted, we are just experiencing the play. Not really free will....free will is an illusion IF you believe in a higher power....because if you submit your self to that higher power....your will becomes THEE's will. If you dont believe in a higher power....of corse your going to believe you have free will, I find nothing wrong with that. Even new age groups realize, the Universe has a will...its a will that life works together and the cycles and orders be respected.

I dont get why non religious people get the feeling like religious people are trying to take their free will. umm....just say, no, go away. You have free speech and so do they. For a group of people to think they found truth...why wouldnt they go tell others, these are people that genuinly care for everyone (some are prideful, but still care).

The 2 are going to have to continue to deal with eachother. The world is never going to be ONE with beliefs....so both sides need to continue to be kind and respect we all have a birth right to be here.

Sorry if that seemed like a bunch of nonsense, but its one of those things that is never going to go away. And it shouldn't, we are all like colors and stitches in a quilt, the variety of humans is the spice of this world. Learn to love it all.

Peace, LV

Why should anyone's free will be curbed by anyone else? Why should anyone be stopped from commiting what I consider to be henious and foul crimes such as murder or rape or child abuse? If it is there free will to do these things then who are we to stop them?

Yet most people would stop them and rightly so. On what grounds though do we say this. How philosophically can we demand that there are certain things which are true and right and others which are not? How can we determine that rape and murder are wrong?

It isn't just the religous that stop so-called free will. You have the choice to break any rule you want. Go and try robbing a bank and see if your free will doesn't have consequences. Go and try advocating the overthrow of a government using force and see if you are stopped.

In fact anyone here who has children will know that they stop their kids from doing what they want. We don't let them run anywhere they want, like into a road, we don't let them eat whatever and whenever they want, or else there will be loads of sick to clear up We in fact put rules in place to protect our children, and then we enforce them. This is what the scriptures view is. God has put his law in place for our good and will enforce that law in the end. It would be better for all if we followed it now rather than waiting for the last day and saying, ooopps.

racegunz

If you choose to not obey you also choose the consequences man up to it, there's no free lunch!

Consequences which,if you believe,will only come after Jesus has returned.If i accept that then no one has a right to force their pov on me.



LeoVirgo

According to the Bible, God seems to already konw everything.

Thats a debate that could last forever.lol.

I dont get why non religious people get the feeling like religious people are trying to take their free will. umm....just say, no, go away. You have free speech and so do they. For a group of people to think they found truth...why wouldnt they go tell others, these are people that genuinly care for everyone (some are prideful, but still care).

Because they are.
Religions push their views into politics,education,showbiz,sexuality etc.It if involved just their own flock,they would have a right.But to dictate to those who aren't and to those who have no religion,from the stand point of their faith should not be allowed.No Christian would be happy to let a Muslim,Hindu or non-believer dictate to them.




Iggus

Why should anyone's free will be curbed by anyone else? Why should anyone be stopped from commiting what I consider to be henious and foul crimes such as murder or rape or child abuse? If it is there free will to do these things then who are we to stop them?

Well done.It only took 3 posts to get to this view.
By going straight to the extreme end of human behaviour you miss out the simple,non violent and non crime areas.Its a good scare tactic used with great skill by politicians,lawyers,religious leaders etc.



[edit on 23-12-2008 by DantesLost]

Does anyone think that perhaps it is possible that all religions are really just different perceptions of one true religion?

I believe it is called debating. I notice that you don't actually respond to the main point though. Why should I be moral at all? Why should I follow your idea as to what may or may not be moral?

Also why shouldn't religous views be taken in these other areas? By what value judgement system do you say that all other views are acceptable except religious ones?

So many questions, but you wont answer any of them

Free will does not mean that there are no consequences for our actions.

Iggus

I notice that you don't actually respond to the main point though. Why should I be moral at all? Why should I follow your idea as to what may or may not be moral?

As i said in another thread you have replied on;Morality,like our conscience,is a built-in condition of humanity,the moral tendency exists in just about everyone,barring psychopaths.The principle of morality is empathy.Even criminals have a form of morality.(some,not all,obviously)

You don't have to follow my ideas on morality,I never said that.You follow what you want,just don't push your belief onto others.Free will should not be taken from people,especially in the name of a faith that isn't there own.

Also why shouldn't religous views be taken in these other areas? By what value judgement system do you say that all other views are acceptable except religious ones?

Because other views are open to debate and change.Religious views are steadfast and dogmatic.

Originally posted by DantesLost
Why are non-believers/sinners persecuted?

These two are separate catagories. Sinners = everyone. Non-believer is a choice (free will)

Originally posted by DantesLost
Why are people persecuted for their choice of lifestyle,the things they teach,the things they learn,the things they watch/listen to etc etc?

What do you mean "persecuted". Do you mean being told they're wrong? I hope that when I do something wrong someone tells me. That's more love than letting me screw things up.

Originally posted by racegunz
Well belief and worship/obedience are different, the bible says the devils believe, and they are destined to hell.

The Bible says the demons believe God is One, not that Jesus is their saviour who came in the flesh from God.

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. " - James 2:19 (reading this in context really helps by the way, James is frequently misunderstood because of it)

"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God." - 1 John 4:2

It's actually a pretty simple test and works.

Originally posted by veryrandomannonomous
Does anyone think that perhaps it is possible that all religions are really just different perceptions of one true religion?

Many people have thought that over many thousands of years, though this populations vote do not create the truth.

I believe in free will. Although someone else's free will can impede on your own. They can lock you up yet you still have free will, but it is limited. Someone else can also end your free will in this reality by ending your life excercising their own free will to do so. People argue about god knowing the future so how can there be free will? An entity who supasses space time would have no concept similiar to our own on space and time, since it is an illusion pepretuated by us to help explain what we don't understand. History and the future is the outcome of everyone's free will acting upon one another. To an outside observer who isn't restricted by illusions of time and space, this would be apparent. This entity would see the outcome of our free will. I suggest that it may look like everything happening at once. God knew eve would give adam the apple. Our history shaped the present, future through free will and god would be able to see the outcome. The real question is how would mankind come about if eve didn't give adam the apple?

Originally posted by DantesLost
You don't have to follow my ideas on morality,I never said that.You follow what you want,just don't push your belief onto others.Free will should not be taken from people,especially in the name of a faith that isn't there own.

This one section is the exact problem with your understanding. Why should free will not be taken fom others? How can you tell me that I shouldn't take it from others having just said that I don't have to follow your ideas on morality.

On the other point, about morailty being in built, I would agree. Although how do you account for it being there? I think that God put it there so that no one has an excuse for their sin. How do you think that it got there?

we have free 'will'

but in actuallity we are not free .. we are a world of open range slavery

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Cio88]

saint4God

What do you mean "persecuted". Do you mean being told they're wrong? I hope that when I do something wrong someone tells me. That's more love than letting me screw things up.

Persecuted:to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment,esp.because of religion,race,beliefs etc;harass persistently.




Iggus

Why should free will not be taken fom others? How can you tell me that I shouldn't take it from others having just said that I don't have to follow your ideas on morality.

You think you should be able to take someone's free will from them? You think others have a right to tell you what to do in every single aspect of your life?



Cio88

but in actuallity we are not free .. we are a world of open range slavery

I've always liked this quote from Voltaire.

A man is born free,yet everywhere he is in chains.

racegunz

But what about their free will to press their pov??? quite the conundrum huh?

Not really.
Believers are encouraged to spread the word,but not through persecution or torture.(as in the past)