Do Nuclear Bombs Exist?

To expand on that...

Mid to high altitude bursts are made for 'soft targets' such as buildings, people, and vehicles. The ground is far more resilient than a building

-Kyo

Either way, it would not only be illegal for you to have said materials in your possession, thus making you a terrorist suspect, but if you did try to feed it to me and were successful, you would also be a murderer.

Not saying you are, but you might want to rethink your stance on how to educate people with regards to radioactive materials.

Intelligence has not hing to do with education with regards to the example you have used.

It was not directed at you, no, though it can apply to the entire no-nuke crowd.
My general method of getting a point of across it to point out to the extreme the fallacy of the situation, no worries - I'm not quite that insane.

On that note, some points:

i. Uranium Ore is entirely legal to own.
www.unitednuclear.com...

Help yourself, though I wouldn't recommend licking the stuff.

ii. Obviously I don't have any serious intent to kill somebody, though it's interesting you admit it'd be murder. After all, you'd murder someone through radiation, and if radiation exists, so must fission?


Now, before I go on: Can you describe to me clearly why you believe they don't exist? I mean, technically, not rationale?

Do you not believe in fission?
In man's capability to induce fission?
In nuclear physics?

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Originally posted by lunarminer
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

Ah, I see that you failed to do step two, put in "Ivy Mike", then you will see the blast crater made by the hydrogen bomb in the atoll.

You really must learn to follow directions.

The other question that follows is this. Why no bomb craters at Hiroshima or Nagasaki? If the bomb was half of IvyMike it should of left a crater half the size, which if it were real, should of left a crater a 1/2 mile in diameter. Where are the craters? Again, why are these places inhabitable?

[edit on 11-1-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]

Here's why there was no bomb craters using Hiroshima as an example

The bomb was armed in flight 31,000ft (9600m) above the city, then dropped at approximately 8:15 a.m. (JST). The detonation happened at an altitude of 1980ft (580m).

So the bomb did not hit the ground and explode, it exploded above the ground.

Hey jfj123, Thank you for posting that.

I guess my question about the craters is in regards to the debris that would be scattered. The debris is coming from some where which is obviously the ground. I understand that an in air detonation of any sort, be it powerful enough, that it is going to leave an immediate vacuum, which in turn is going to suck not only up, but literally from all sides. As for the ground, I could almost picture it being like taking a shop vac to loose soil. The loose soil, dust, and such would be sucked up into the cloud which would have to leave somewhat of a crater, even if it was small, due to all of the debris that it put out.

I would also imagine that the engineers, foreseeing the power of force being lost to a 360 degree explosion, from the bombs point of view, would in some way try to remedy that so that the main force of the bomb would aim down, but I am having a hard time understanding how that could be accomplished with an aerial explosion.

Someone had mentioned, forgive me if I'm misquoting, that the plum rose to like 136,000 ft. That is a lot of debris to rise that high. I realize that would be a fine dust, but still that is a lot of debris. It just doesn't seem right to me that it wouldn't have left a crater. Like I had said earlier, in my trip to Vietnam, the B-52 Incendiaries dropped all over that country left craters that you could drive a truck into and those were conventional bombs. Of course those did touch ground, but I don't know, it just doesn't make sense that a nuclear weapon of such force wouldn't of left any crater.

Thanks again, ltru

Originally posted by Iblis

Either way, it would not only be illegal for you to have said materials in your possession, thus making you a terrorist suspect, but if you did try to feed it to me and were successful, you would also be a murderer.

Not saying you are, but you might want to rethink your stance on how to educate people with regards to radioactive materials.

Intelligence has not hing to do with education with regards to the example you have used.

It was not directed at you, no, though it can apply to the entire no-nuke crowd.
My general method of getting a point of across it to point out to the extreme the fallacy of the situation, no worries - I'm not quite that insane.

On that note, some points:

i. Uranium Ore is entirely legal to own.
www.unitednuclear.com...

Help yourself, though I wouldn't recommend licking the stuff.

ii. Obviously I don't have any serious intent to kill somebody, though it's interesting you admit it'd be murder. After all, you'd murder someone through radiation, and if radiation exists, so must fission?


Now, before I go on: Can you describe to me clearly why you believe they don't exist? I mean, technically, not rationale?

Do you not believe in fission?
In man's capability to induce fission?
In nuclear physics?

I didn't think you had any intentions, I think I was just tired of being attacked that day and let my emotions get to me, forgive me.

As I stated, much earlier in this thread, I believe in nuclear power. I know it exists, my uncle manages power plants and has managed nuclear plants. My grandfather and great grandfather both worked for Edison Power. My great-grandfather was Vice President of the Company. I have no doubt "Nuclear Power" exists and state here for the record that it does to my belief.

I don't believe that a nuclear weapon has ever been detonated due to the facts that I can work with. I have never seen a nuclear weapon detonated other then in movies and the movies that I have seen do no not hold up, in my opinion, as credible evidence as to their existence. The bombs allegedly dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki also do not hold up, due to the fact that both areas are thriving, the witness accounts sound phony being over elaborate many of which I have posted. Also due to the fact that there was a complete media blackout over the bombs as well as the films of the aftermath also look staged and composited.

Perhaps this would be better to say on my part. If such weapons were ever detonated, we the public, are not getting the real story. We, in my opinion, have been handed falsified information that has been choreographed with Hollywood as are many other campaigns, to the detriment of the public with a "Nuclear Scare" that has been in no way solidified to the public as to the existence of said weapons. As kyo had said, in 1992 a ban on nuclear testing went into effect, so for over 17 years no one has seen a nuclear weapon detonated. Not only that, you can't find a test "movie" that is not younger then 30 years ago. If we stopped 17 years ago, where are the tests from the later detonations?

People speak Klingon, yet this is not a real language meaning it has no history of being real, yet there are books on how to speak it. I feel the same is done with nuclear weapons. Lots and Lots of paper and movies all showing how "real" they are, but not one example to the public of it being real other then examples from over 60 years ago. In my opinion, and I thank you all for letting me have it without wanting to kill me, is that we are having the wool pulled over our eyes. I stated earlier that I believe this was done in order to secure no more World Wars, but that it has gotten out of hand. We are all much wiser individuals now a days and have many examples of false flag operations. I feel that is where the detonation of such devices falls...as a false flag operation done on a global stage brokered by the leaders to put an end to world war and keep the business of war in local arenas. Can't be having everyones fingers in the pie if you know what I mean. War is Business.

I hope that answers your questions. I have given my thoughts through out this thread as to why I believe this way, so forgive me for not labeling them individually again.

I do thank you for your response Iblis.

Peace

I didn't think you had any intentions, I think I was just tired of being attacked that day and let my emotions get to me, forgive me.

Entirely understandable. I've had my fair share of those moments, and given that you appear to be the only person defending your side of the story, let alone remaining for factual debate.

I don't believe that a nuclear weapon has ever been detonated due to the facts that I can work with. I have never seen a nuclear weapon detonated other then in movies and the movies that I have seen do no not hold up, in my opinion, as credible evidence as to their existence. The bombs allegedly dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki also do not hold up, due to the fact that both areas are thriving, the witness accounts sound phony being over elaborate many of which I have posted. Also due to the fact that there was a complete media blackout over the bombs as well as the films of the aftermath also look staged and composited.

Well, unfortunately in my time on ATS, I've noticed that no matter the evidence, one side can always interpret or blind themselves [the former in your case, I think] something against all odds, in one person's eyes. So therefore, I understand anything I tell you, you may find disagreeable or explainable, but I digress: Think of the odds of everything. I'll try and explain such odds for simplicities sake.

i. Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima underwent extensive efforts to purify the cities, and to this day there reminds hazards to life there. Besides this, you'd be hard pressed to explain the kind of effects seen on those days, even if you passed off the loss of life as conventional explosives:

How are people's shadows burned onto rocks? Why was the water lethal to drink? Why such a wide array of sickness all consistent with what we identify today as radiation poisoning? -Can you explain the electrical outages faced in the surrounding cities that day by any other means than EMP?

Furthermore, to my knowledge there was anything but a media black-out: The bombs, after all, were used to demonstrate America's new powers. To put fear into the Japanese, and more importantly, into the Soviet threat.

Perhaps this would be better to say on my part. If such weapons were ever detonated, we the public, are not getting the real story. We, in my opinion, have been handed falsified information that has been choreographed with Hollywood as are many other campaigns, to the detriment of the public with a "Nuclear Scare" that has been in no way solidified to the public as to the existence of said weapons. As kyo had said, in 1992 a ban on nuclear testing went into effect, so for over 17 years no one has seen a nuclear weapon detonated. Not only that, you can't find a test "movie" that is not younger then 30 years ago. If we stopped 17 years ago, where are the tests from the later detonations?

i. On the contrary, there have been multiple nuclear tests since 1992. [North Korea doesn't count. I refuse to count that as a legitimate test despite the media's insistence on the matter.]

1981–82 Praetorian 22 Nevada Test Site
1982–83 Phalanx 19 Nevada Test Site
1983–84 Fusileer 17 Nevada Test Site
1984–85 Grenadier 17 Nevada Test Site
1985–86 Charioteer 18 Nevada Test Site Mighty Oak test using the Mk-21 RV warhead. was conducted on April 10, 1986. Containment failed and later radiation was released. Secondary sources put this venting into at 36,000 curies, which is 2000 times greater than the 3 Mile Island incident. Sources: Dr. Rosalie Bertell, Dr. Bonnie Eberhardt, journalist Paul Van Dam.
1986–87 Musketeer 15 Nevada Test Site
1987–88 Touchstone 14 Nevada Test Site
1988–89 Cornerstone 12 Nevada Test Site
1989–90 Aqueduct 11 Nevada Test Site
1990–91 Sculpin 8 Nevada Test Site
1991–92 Julin 8

ATS deleted the remainder of the post.. I'll get back to it later -- Quite tired.

Night!

LTRU...

I read the witness statements and I recall you talking about how elaborate and emotional they were. Do you believe the holocaust occured? If s, some of those testimonies are insanly emotionally charged and heavy reads.

-Kyo

Originally posted by Iblis

I didn't think you had any intentions, I think I was just tired of being attacked that day and let my emotions get to me, forgive me.

Entirely understandable. I've had my fair share of those moments, and given that you appear to be the only person defending your side of the story, let alone remaining for factual debate.

I don't believe that a nuclear weapon has ever been detonated due to the facts that I can work with. I have never seen a nuclear weapon detonated other then in movies and the movies that I have seen do no not hold up, in my opinion, as credible evidence as to their existence. The bombs allegedly dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki also do not hold up, due to the fact that both areas are thriving, the witness accounts sound phony being over elaborate many of which I have posted. Also due to the fact that there was a complete media blackout over the bombs as well as the films of the aftermath also look staged and composited.

Well, unfortunately in my time on ATS, I've noticed that no matter the evidence, one side can always interpret or blind themselves [the former in your case, I think] something against all odds, in one person's eyes. So therefore, I understand anything I tell you, you may find disagreeable or explainable, but I digress: Think of the odds of everything. I'll try and explain such odds for simplicities sake.

i. Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima underwent extensive efforts to purify the cities, and to this day there reminds hazards to life there. Besides this, you'd be hard pressed to explain the kind of effects seen on those days, even if you passed off the loss of life as conventional explosives:

How are people's shadows burned onto rocks? Why was the water lethal to drink? Why such a wide array of sickness all consistent with what we identify today as radiation poisoning? -Can you explain the electrical outages faced in the surrounding cities that day by any other means than EMP?

Furthermore, to my knowledge there was anything but a media black-out: The bombs, after all, were used to demonstrate America's new powers. To put fear into the Japanese, and more importantly, into the Soviet threat.

Perhaps this would be better to say on my part. If such weapons were ever detonated, we the public, are not getting the real story. We, in my opinion, have been handed falsified information that has been choreographed with Hollywood as are many other campaigns, to the detriment of the public with a "Nuclear Scare" that has been in no way solidified to the public as to the existence of said weapons. As kyo had said, in 1992 a ban on nuclear testing went into effect, so for over 17 years no one has seen a nuclear weapon detonated. Not only that, you can't find a test "movie" that is not younger then 30 years ago. If we stopped 17 years ago, where are the tests from the later detonations?

i. On the contrary, there have been multiple nuclear tests since 1992. [North Korea doesn't count. I refuse to count that as a legitimate test despite the media's insistence on the matter.]

1981–82 Praetorian 22 Nevada Test Site
1982–83 Phalanx 19 Nevada Test Site
1983–84 Fusileer 17 Nevada Test Site
1984–85 Grenadier 17 Nevada Test Site
1985–86 Charioteer 18 Nevada Test Site Mighty Oak test using the Mk-21 RV warhead. was conducted on April 10, 1986. Containment failed and later radiation was released. Secondary sources put this venting into at 36,000 curies, which is 2000 times greater than the 3 Mile Island incident. Sources: Dr. Rosalie Bertell, Dr. Bonnie Eberhardt, journalist Paul Van Dam.
1986–87 Musketeer 15 Nevada Test Site
1987–88 Touchstone 14 Nevada Test Site
1988–89 Cornerstone 12 Nevada Test Site
1989–90 Aqueduct 11 Nevada Test Site
1990–91 Sculpin 8 Nevada Test Site
1991–92 Julin 8

Iblis, your awesome, thank you for the info. I will check these out.

Hey, I was wondering if perhaps I could get you to think about this from a different view point for just a moment, just for something a little different. I think it would actually help your point of the debate, but am still interested in what you and others would say.

Say you were taking my position in this. I was wondering what the reasons you guys think there would be for it being false, not that you do, but only to see what you guys would think the benefits would be of "faking it". What do you see could be gained in such an action. Again, I know you stand for them, but you guys are critical thinkers and I respect your viewpoints. That being said, if the shoe was on the other foot, what would be the pros and cons of it being a "false flag" not only to our National Security, but our position in the world.

I'd really be interested to hear what you guys think. If anything, like I said, it could help you to counter my points and maybe even come up with better ones. Honestly, I've worn the pro existent shoes my whole life. It was only after close scrutiny of the movies that I became a "non-believer". Not the movie the op did, just my own viewings in the past on the history channel and other documentaries.

Regardless, I would really like to hear what you guys think.

Again, Iblis thank you for the info and your patience and if you have any links to more recent tests, please post them. I would really like to see a more current example then the ones from the 50's.

Sincerely, ltru

I have found an article entitled "Nuclear Weapons Do Not Exist" - click link and scroll to bottom - you'll notice that the article inspires the same vitriolic spasming from posters as it does on this thread: theflatearthsociety.org...

NUKE LIES: www.youtube.com...

[edit on 13-1-2009 by violenttorrent]

Originally posted by KyoZero
LTRU...

I read the witness statements and I recall you talking about how elaborate and emotional they were. Do you believe the holocaust occured? If s, some of those testimonies are insanly emotionally charged and heavy reads.

-Kyo

Kyo, you're touching on some explosive material...lol, but yes I do believe the holocaust occurred.

Are you speaking in lines of the "Diary of Anne Frank" type of testimonies or others? I believe it is one thing to write a memoir type recollection as opposed to being interviewed. I just believe that when you are asked a simple question, a simple answer is all that is required. I found that with the Hiroshima, Nagasaki interviews a question would be given only to have a page long answer. Indeed, I understand the trauma of such a situation, but we are talking about elderly people here who's answers just seemed a little overboard for me.

I compare it to the gentlemen who was interviewed at ground zero of the wtc. The guy who said, "the building came down due to structural failure because the fire was just too intense" seconds after it came down. How did he know that? Who was he? Who talks like that?...you know what i mean? What normal person says "Structural Failure"? "I had a fire in my house and it came down due to structural failure" said joe to bob. It does not fit. "I watched as that sucker burned to the ground, everything I had was in there." is what I picture someone saying. That would be normal to me.

The testimonies are just too elaborate and overly emotional for simple questions. Anybody knows, the more you say, the more you have to answer for and in the case of the testimonies, something doesn't sit right with me.

But yes, I do believe the holocaust happened, my girls grandmother was in one of the camps who was polish, but I do think it was used to foster support for the birth of an Israeli state who's push started in the late 1800's in America. Coincidence?. Jews weren't the only people in the holocaust and I hope people never forget that. Anyway that's another topic...

Peace

Oh I am certainly not denying the holocaust...was terrible and I feel awful for it...

My point was is the testimonies sometimes were lead by

"What happened?"

and the answers would be very long and emotional. With damn good reason too. What his regime did to those people was awful. When I was in high school we had three survivors come to our schol for a talk and some Q and A. One person asked how did it feel. The answer took almost 20 minutes to tell. Emotions took over, tears flowed, and the elaboration was so intricate I could almost feel as if I were there. It was incredible.

Now I am not knocking what happened in the holocaust and I am certainly not trying to compare. What I am saying is using what you just said, I could apply that and say because of how overboard her answer was, the holocaust may have never happened. Now again, I am certain it did and will never argue against it and I am sorry this is such a touchy subject but here's what I am getting at.

The arguments posted in this debate are the following..

1. The interviews and summations were too elaborate and emotional

2. We've never personally seen the nuclear weapons detonated

3. Some of the videos looked faked

Well from this...and please take this with a grain of salt...

1. I've already discussed how elaborate and emotional interviews from the camps were

2. I have never myself witnessed a gas chamber, the camps, or anything of the sort

3. Those videos, while inhuman looked like they could have been reproduced to me. In fact, watching Band of Brothers I've seen video that looked liek it came directly from there, minus the fact that I know the characters played it. The individuals who played the tortured members looked very much like the walking dead.

Like I said, I wholeheartedly believe the holocaust took place and will never make light of it, but if I apply some of the same arguments then frankly to me, the holocaust, the moon landing, the nuclear weapons, WW1....none of it ever happened

-Kyo

reply to post by let the reader understand


LTRU,

You need to think this through in an arena other than the provincalness of being an emotional drama queen. Not all people are like this on a daily basis. They are disciplined people rather than having been raised in front of a television watching drama type reality shows or talk shows with a lie detector/DNA test.

This here...

I compare it to the gentlemen who was interviewed at ground zero of the wtc. The guy who said, "the building came down due to structural failure because the fire was just too intense" seconds after it came down. How did he know that? Who was he? Who talks like that?...you know what i mean? What normal person says "Structural Failure"? "I had a fire in my house and it came down due to structural failure" said joe to bob. It does not fit. "I watched as that sucker burned to the ground, everything I had was in there." is what I picture someone saying. That would be normal to me.

I was robbed a couple of months ago...at gunpoint. When It was over I managed to keep my calm and call the local police without peeing my pants or becoming a spastic dribbling uncontrolled idiot.
Oh.. and to demonstrate how people think or don't think, At the continuing trial on this robbery...in my witness testimony last Friday.. I explained that the gunman had the automatic pistol pointed at me "center mass." The defense attorney picked up on this and cross examined me with the view that was I sure it was "center mass?" I tried to explain to him what it meant "center mass" but changed my mind and just stated that I belong to a well known gun club in this area. All questioning in this line of thought immediately stopped. This defense attorney was unprepared for the concept that people who were not in the local constabulary or an attorney would know what is "center mass."
The prosecuting attorney or what here we call the Commonwealth Attorney had the professional discretion/dicipline to keep silent but I could see a quiet smile on her lips.

There are people out here who instinctively know that discipline is required in stressful situiations not drama and runaway emotions.

I am a nuclear fueled by trade. I prepare the fuel cells for insertion into a reactor vessel after the old ones have been removed. I am also on the team which inserts them. I have held my arms around uranium fuel cells and been close enough to them to kiss them with my lips if I so wanted.
THe point is you use your diciplined training to keep cool and follow procedures. YOu don't become a dribbling idiot and pee your pants. People are depending on you for their lives and safety in addition to the well being/future of their families. THere are people out here who are on intimate terms with such disciplines as a normal course of their lives and occupations. THese people do not think differently because they leave work or put their tools up at the end of the day. They don't step into a phone booth and automatically become a dribbling emotional train wreck by responding to some clue and cue....a program which is not their program.
I don't find it unusual at all that a person who was just in the WTC before it fell would make a statement such as that. No doubt in my mind there were alot of professional people in that building who do not watch talk shows and emote their way through daily life but believe in and practice diciplines. No doubt in my mind that many of them in the WTC were in the military at one time in their lives.

LTRU...as I have stated before in other posts...I know so many people who ..outside of their occupations...they live television/movie lives. Their thinking, emotions, beliefs, expectations are television/movie beliefs, thinking, emotions, and expectations. What is worse..so many of them are totally oblivious to the concept that they are on an emotional puppet string. They even vote in the voting booth on such a template which is not theirs but has been transplanted in lieu of independent, individual, Free thinking. This is the purpose of creating drama queens...such that they are predictable in their conduct..while they are thinking they are free.
It is called...." counterfeiting." It creates puppets who don't know. Is this not one of the important ingredients of a counterfeit..that the victim does not know it is a counterfeit until it is to late??
In short..they have been hijacked and don't even know it. The easiest manner in which to hijack a people is to do so emotionally.
People can become so accustomed to such an emotional drug they can even think it is an entitlement ..a lifestyle...deserved.

We know who many of these people are for whom I describe as they cannot seem to describe a moral concept or thinking outside of a movie or television program they have watched. Their thinking and emotions are second hand ...vicarious. They have no experiences of their own outside of a television/movie experiences. Do you know many of these drama queens?? I do, male and female both, and I don't care to be around them any more than absolutely necessary.

I don't happen to think this way and don't like to be around people who do.
I don't care for trainwrecks...especially in a dangerous situations where disciplines are required.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 13-1-2009 by orangetom1999]