Falluja Surrounded By USA!

DOM,
I can agree with you on a few points, but overall think your wacked if you believe the GOV controls the media...back to that in a sec

I agree that this is about US geopolitical influence, for several reasons (oil, terrorism, freedom, sanction enforcement, wmd's, mid east peace, US prestige...ect)

I also agree that most Americans are ignorant about the complex socio-political issues involved.
Hell, we cant even get excited about our own politics, let alone forign policy issues, or even paying attention to countries/regions that seem "removed" from our daily lives. Im not suprised we've had our head in the sand and didnt see this conflict comming...all the dots were connected on 9-11, and now we understand at least the basis of this situation.

Ill even give you the "iraq is not full of terrorists"
however, it is known that saddam WAS paying families of hammas suicide bombers, and there is mounting evidence of at some dealings with al queda, tho not openly or seemingly "hand in hand".
Even if there is NO terrorist in iraq, that place and others in the mid east are a breeding ground for violent anti west rhetoric and actions.

To the anti war wizards that predicted armed resistance from iraqis against us.....NOOOO ya think? REALLY?
predicting we were gonna tick some people off and that conflict would erupt was a no brainer there....DUH!
I think its been overall LIGHTER than id have expected....

HERE IS THE BIG BEEF WITH YOU DOM

I have worked in TV news up/down the east coast for over 10 yrs....NEVER.....
NEVER
NEVER
have i EVER seen any one from the government in the newsroom telling anyone what to report or not....
How the hell can you even begin to believe this fiction?
The only pull the gov has is with licencing, and thats even weak at best....

Do you realize how many people go into making your 6pm news? literaly dozens, from all races and backrounds...with a diverse set of opinions that DONT ALWAYS AGREE on a story idea, approach to a story, wording within a story, pictures to use, ect ect ect....

Some of us dont even like some of our co workers...so reaching some WIDE spread consensus about a conspiracy with the feds would BE IMPOSSIBLE, and furthermore dont you think that SOMEONE would blow the whistle or something would have leaked out by now if this grand conspiracy DID exist.

The channels COMPETE with one another....its about $$$....every station would love to have proof of something like this and WOULD RUN WITH IT IF,,,,,IF there was a shred of evidence..

If anyone is to blame for being ignorant or not informed of the geopolitical situation its NOT the MEDIA...

Its the millions of couch potatoes that will refuse to watch "booring" stuff on politics and international relations....the ratings that shows get from viewers translate directly into $$$, and booring shows that no one watches, dont live long...... instead we get springer, oprah, and other crap with no substance....
the shows go where the $$ is, and there is little $$ in tv news, and none for shows that cant pull a profit...

We cant do anything about foriegn media's portrail or interpretations of the us, or how they choose to portray us...this is why i personally dont give a crap...say what you want, we'll do what we think is best for us reguardless.

Its about time we stood up and cleaned up some serious mess's, and i really dont care who this bothers....swim over here and get a piece of the USA!!

CazMedia,

I'd just like you to tell everyone on this board, for the record, what you honestly think of the rest of the world. I'm not trying to show you up, I just want to know where you stand. I also want to know just how much you really do know about the rest of the world.

IMHO, sweatmonicaIdo, why don't you answer the same things your asking of him, maybe?
*edit* to add "for the record"

seekerof

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof
IMHO, sweatmonicaIdo, why don't you answer the same things your asking of him, maybe?
*edit* to add "for the record"

seekerof

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by Seekerof]

Because U.S. government #1!

Also, the only response I've ever recieved for my thoughts on the situation have always been your "kiss American government's @$$" droppings, so if the result is the same, does it make much sense to debate it?

No, because the response is the same every time.

This is a big topic, should i go country by country? should we talk regionally? economically? politically?

Mabey ill start by telling you about myself, so that you might gleam some understanding on where im comming from.

Im a white male in his mid 30's
im a non praticing christian (protestant)
I have B.S. degree in broadcast communications with a dual major in international studies.
I have been invloved in journalism for over a decade, and am currently a news editor in a top 5 market network station.

As for the world? well lets just say the UN is a great IDEA, but SUCKS in practice....

hmm just some quick thoughts off the top of my head

RUSSIA: I know you might be sore about losing the cold war, but i RESPECT you as an HONORABLE former adversary, and hope that we will continue to work together twords a better future.

CHINA: You have also shown HONOR as an adversary of the USA, but i hope that we can also work together and not allow conflict to hinder our relations...besides your making way too much $$$ off of us to want to have hostilities between us. I know you dont wnat to lose face with Tiawan, but let this not come to blows.

ENGLAND: sorry you were too stuffy for us back in 1776...the USA could not have a firmer or closer ally...god save the queen.

JAPAN: I have always been facinated by your culture, yeah that ww2 thing sucked, but we were able to go way beyond that and now we are true friends..One day i hope to visit TOKYO.

ISRAEL: Hey im all for stopping the gennocide against your people, but i understand why the arabs are ticked the UN gave you a bunch of land where your at...You have shown GREAT RESTRAINT for quite some time, and i know the USA has leaned down HARD on you at times to not let things get too wild over there...i appreciate this help, but do you know HOW MUCH AGGRAVATION YOUR CAUSING FOR US? Geeze, sometimes having a kid brother is really a pain in the butt.

FRANCE: Thanks for helping us out with our independance from england, but damn, cut us some slack eh? Why does it always seem like the French are doing something to oppose us? We know you had your $$$ into iraq, both good and bad....too bad you didnt want to help or we'd be letting you get a piece of the pie...Whats this i hear about french complacency in the UN food for oil program FIASCO RIPPOFF? You know, the one that saddam looted while people starved?
Its FREEDOM FRIES with my Big Mac now!

lots of other great places too in europe....

South America, well, you guys have come a long way down there, and i know the narco-terrorists are trying to get you to sway, but try and stay the course...and BRAZIL, Save some of the rain forrest would ya?

AFRICA: lots of problems here both political, social, health...ect.....much of this due to poverty, corruption and poor education thru the continent....many of these problems are structural and will require serious commitment from their people to overcome...much of the aid $$ dumped into the continent has been wasted by the corruption there...

how about some not so upstanding citizens of the world community

N KOREA: Kim is a brutal dictator that starves his nation....he activly thumbs his nose at the world and continues weapon proliferation, including C.B.N.
Your big bro china might not help you too much if you step out of line....DONT MAKE A STUPID MISTAKE!!!

IRAN: Seems like the people over there are wishing their government was a little less fundamental, but the government isnt gonna allow that to happen....too much religious doctrine mixed up with internal and external politics...i want to recognize you as a competant member of the world community, but your gonna have to be a little more accomodating, and stop messing with terrorists and fueling conflict.

LIBYA: My Ghaddaffi, Im glad you saw that the US was indeed serious about things, and gave up your WMD programs....I would like to give you yet another chance to show that you can be a productive member in the world. DONT SCREW IT UP AGAIN!!!

EGYPT and SAUDI ARABIA
I know you both are between a rock and a hard place with fundamentalism within your nations....i hope you can keep things together and remain stable members of the world.

PACKISTAN: Im glad you decided to be with us, not against us on this terror/afganistan thing....
WE'RE WATCHING YOU TOO...You only get one chance at this....

IRAQ: Hey saddam, we called your bluff, you know the one that had the UN and the world conned into thinking you actually had WMD....bet you wish you really did huh...never thought we'd actually DO something about the 12 yrs of sanctions levied against you? Well we helped prop you up, so we cleaned up the mess we helped make....Iraqis, tryand build things up over there...Show the detractors that say your not ready or cant handle things, that they were wrong

To the unnamed countries...Hello

Obviously, this was not a SERIOUS examination of the issues concerning these countries/regions, just a very BASIC view. DO NOT READ TOO MUCH INTO THIS, as it took 4 years of study to delve into the complexities of international relations. This was just a quick glance.

Now what about you? care to answer the same?

CazMedia,

Your response highlighted the problem with Americans. We see it as America being the center of the world, the exact same problem China had at one point. But hey, it's not your fault. Anyway, here I go. I'm going do it your style, just for simplicity:

I'm a Korean born in America, turning 18 this August;
I plan to study Computer Science and one day join all the geniuses at companies like EA Games, LucasArts, and Maxis;
I was formerly Christian, but now I am an agnostic who believes in a secular manner.
I like America (not the government)
I love the Atlanta Braves

Regarding the U.N. I think it's a good idea, but it's not working out too well.

Russia: I have a lot of respect for Russia. They are truly something, it's just that they made many mistakes along the way.

Great Britain: I love the British people, but their government can suck my balls.

France: I like France, and have a lot of respect for them. After all they have a culture, unlike us (our freedom fries thing made us look stupidier than ever). However, I know see them as a bunch of fakes. If they didn't want to go to war, that's fine. That's their opinion. But to have done it for financial reasons and pretend it was "humanitarian," well, that makes them worse than the U.S. government in many ways. For that, they can burn.

China: You're big and bad, but your xenophobia rivals that of America's. Even America doesn't kill anybody "different." For the most part.

Japan: The government can suck my balls also. The fact they create their own little group to look down upon and discriminate against is pretty sad. But I do love just Japan. They are one of the coolest and most glorious countries in the world. They created so many awesome things, like Sony, Nintendo, Anime, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc. Japan all the way!

Israel: You aren't all that.

Saudi Arabia: There are those among us (like me) who know you aren't as pretty as you and the U.S. government claim to be.

South America: Great place.

North Korea: My northern brotha, start being a bit more humane. You don't have to be a democracy, just be that "benevolent" leader you claim to be and just leave everyone else alone.

Iran: Iran is cool. Their strong adherence to their religion is inspiring in some ways. Although I was disappointed with their actions in the 1980s.

Pakistan: Do whatever.

Iraq: You're done. As much as Iraq was America's fault, we still cleaned up the mess, so that accounts for something.

The way I see it, everyone is with America, or it's against it. America being as powerful as it is, does have that right to be a bully. It's unfortunate, but it's the way it is and we have to live with it. I think the world would be better off if America learned to do what our founding fathers had dreamed about America: a country that accepts all, recognizes the freedoms and rights of EVERY person, learns to recognize differential opinions, and recognizes that there is more to this world than America.

cazm and sweatm, great post by both of you.
Commendable to say the least.


seekerof

Originally posted by Seekerof
cazm and sweatm, great post by both of you.

Commendable to say the least.


seekerof

Cool.

A bit of a Janus debate going on, each side represents two types of people.

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

Mabe the #es and suni's have made deal of ruling the country. Now fighting the american's to get them out of the country.

Since fighting both parties makes more iraqies support this, while the americans get over whelmed.

Clearly sweatmonicaIdo is way out of his league. His points totally lacked understanding of world politics. CazMedia, on the other hand, is extremely well-versed in world politics. I strongly agree with all of CazMedia�s points because it�s what I see as well. Plus, a lot of my friends, who just can�t @#$%$# stop talking politics and current events say the same things as well.

Back to the topic at hand�
***Falluja Surrounded By USA!***

I�ll keep my opinion straight forward�..

If I wasn�t a God fearing man (which I am), I would take the damn city (Falluja) by force and start pumping out oil like there�s no tomorrow. @#$% chivalry, and screw decency. You can�t reason with people who are willing to die just to kill you and are willing to use women and children as shields. Turn the guy into Swiss cheese and get it over with�.of course innocents will be killed, that always happens in war��but eventually, the women, children, fathers, husbands, will be forced to separate themselves from the attackers thus making our jobs so much easier�.

Let�s face it�..we probably #@$% ourselves over by not structuring our neighborhoods and cities to accommodate mass transportation, which in turn would, would ease traffic congestion as our population grows. But, I rather enjoy driving my car with no one to bother me except the car next to me. If the United States is a person�..then the highways and roads are the veins, the automobiles are the blood cells, and dammit, oil is everything else and we need it.

My head is thinking long term here�. We have a finite supply of oil, but the world�s population keeps growing. I say take all the oil we can get from Iraq without having to go to war with other Middle Eastern countries. They're wasting it anways.......

What if all the Middle Eastern countries got their sh@#$ together�years from now we would be at their mercy begging for oil. Or they can use their nearly endless supply of oil to become a new world power. But then again we could possibly negotiate oil with Russia and South America. Or we can go electric since we have the technology but then, all the oil companies and investors would probably kill that idea as usual.

Yeah I know�what I just said was full of crap to most people�but I�m a straight forward guy that cut�s out all the bullsh@t (Anyone see Good Will Hunting, when Matt was talking to Robin about an interview he had with a Government agency, good example).

BUT��I am a God fearing man�..and if I had to make a decision. Then I would not do what I just said, even though I do think it simplifies thing. Plus I�m tired, it�s time for bed, and I don�t feel like elaborating anymore on this topic.

I just had to let that out.....

Originally posted by j619pinoy
Clearly sweatmonicaIdo is way out of his league. His points totally lacked understanding of world politics. CazMedia, on the other hand, is extremely well-versed in world politics. I strongly agree with all of CazMedia�s points because it�s what I see as well. Plus, a lot of my friends, who just can�t @#$%$# stop talking politics and current events say the same things as well.

J619pinoy, all I'm going to say is that you need to get out more. Politics isn't the only thing in this world. You're right, I don't understand world politics. But looking at it philosophically, they're "do this, do that" garbage set up by people... people LIKE YOU.

My post were my beliefs. I know most of it can't happen. I'm a realist, but I can still say what I honestly think. I have my own beliefs, and so do you. Sorry if you don't like differing opinions.

And disagreeing is a part of life. Get behind it.

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

j619pinoy,

On the other hand, I agree with the rest of your post. I think America should be honest and do what it wants to do.

We have no obligation to serve anyone else. If we're going for the oil, fine, let's get it. Instead of lying to ourselves and the world, let's get what we want.

The conflict in Iraq is not really about winning a military conflict against the US. It should be obvious, even to the fanatically stupid, that it's not possible. No, this is about seeing how far back into barbarism they can bring us. We talk pretty big and often about how we don't want to hurt innocents and how we value human life. They are going to try to make us either flinch or drop the big hammer knowing that the world is watching.

Western Culture because of it's ideals, cannot be imposed. It must be absorbed from those who have it. That means that we have to show by example the virtues that make Western Culture superior. If we just flatten Cities and don't appear to take the utmost care in who we kill and why, then we show that our system is not any better or less savage than theirs.

I'm not saying I exactly agree with that, but I think that is how the people who are running the war are looking at it.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
The conflict in Iraq is not really about winning a military conflict against the US. It should be obvious, even to the fanatically stupid, that it's not possible. No, this is about seeing how far back into barbarism they can bring us. We talk pretty big and often about how we don't want to hurt innocents and how we value human life. They are going to try to make us either flinch or drop the big hammer knowing that the world is watching.

Western Culture because of it's ideals, cannot be imposed. It must be absorbed from those who have it. That means that we have to show by example the virtues that make Western Culture superior. If we just flatten Cities and don't appear to take the utmost care in who we kill and why, then we show that our system is not any better or less savage than theirs.

I'm not saying I exactly agree with that, but I think that is how the people who are running the war are looking at it.

Good point. They're winning ideally, not militarily.

I for one believe America is not being honest with itself. America as a whole percieves itself as a utopia, but what we have discovered in recent times is that America really is not as different as other people. We are more prosperous and powerful, but we are still all the same people, all capable of the same terrible things. That's our problem, we seem to think we are wholly superior to others.

That's why I was cheering when I heard the Marines would be using "overwhelming firepower" against the resistance. We need to stop acting like we're these guardian angels and simply kick their @$$es all the way in!!!! That is the Marine way, isn't it? You bite us, we'll bite you even harder!

It's really about selling the idea that our way of doing things is better than their way of doing things. It's about how many of us we're allowing to die to make sure we don't kill too many of them.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
The conflict in Iraq is not really about winning a military conflict against the US. It should be obvious, even to the fanatically stupid, that it's not possible. No, this is about seeing how far back into barbarism they can bring us. We talk pretty big and often about how we don't want to hurt innocents and how we value human life. They are going to try to make us either flinch or drop the big hammer knowing that the world is watching.

Western Culture because of it's ideals, cannot be imposed. It must be absorbed from those who have it. That means that we have to show by example the virtues that make Western Culture superior. If we just flatten Cities and don't appear to take the utmost care in who we kill and why, then we show that our system is not any better or less savage than theirs.

I'm not saying I exactly agree with that, but I think that is how the people who are running the war are looking at it.

Amb' Sound,
You just answered what i was going to search.
S.

sweatmonicaIdo,

HAHA you're hilarious!!! How is getting out more supposed to increase my awareness??? Ever heard of the news? Forums? News Websites? Time Magazine? Friends that majored in Political Science and International Studies? That�s where I get my information from. It�s not like we can just walk over to Iraq and start asking them questions.

****�Politics isn't the only thing in this world.�

Say what!?? I never said it was, but boy, I can�t emphasize enough how important it is to understand politics. I like to think of politics as money�a tool you can use to help get what you want w/out pissing off the majority��

****�But looking at it philosophically, they're "do this, do that" garbage set up by people... people LIKE YOU.�

Do you understand what you�re saying or are just trying to sound intelligent? Which system of philosophy are you basing this on? How can you even sum up world politics as, �do this, do that� and �garbage�????

I understand disagreeing is a part of life. I just don�t like it when people try to argue against someone who clearly knows what they are talking about.

Originally posted by j619pinoy
sweatmonicaIdo,

HAHA you're hilarious!!! How is getting out more supposed to increase my awareness??? Ever heard of the news? Forums? News Websites? Time Magazine? Friends that majored in Political Science and International Studies? That�s where I get my information from. It�s not like we can just walk over to Iraq and start asking them questions.

****�Politics isn't the only thing in this world.�

Say what!?? I never said it was, but boy, I can�t emphasize enough how important it is to understand politics. I like to think of politics as money�a tool you can use to help get what you want w/out pissing off the majority��

****�But looking at it philosophically, they're "do this, do that" garbage set up by people... people LIKE YOU.�

Do you understand what you�re saying or are just trying to sound intelligent? Which system of philosophy are you basing this on? How can you even sum up world politics as, �do this, do that� and �garbage�????

I understand disagreeing is a part of life. I just don�t like it when people try to argue against someone who clearly knows what they are talking about.

Wow, you're cool! Inspiring! Phenomenal!

And yes, I have heard of the news, forums (I am on one, aren't I?), and all the rest. I just like figuring things out for myself. Ignorance is not as pretty as it seems, after all.

If you really think you know what you're talking about it, that you're 100% correct and everyone to the contrary is wrong, that you know what's what, and that you really are that damn good, then all I say is congratulations. I'm very proud of you, and so is the rest of the world.

I wish you the VERY BEST of EVERYTHING in life. You're going to need every last bit of it.

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by sweatmonicaIdo]

SWEATM,

yes we did have some good posts a while back, and i wont beat you up for your opinions
but i will say one thing you said spoke volumes
"turning 18 this August"

OK, so your young, and ohh i wish i was 18 again, but
not that being young is wrong, but as you age you will begin to see things differently, how i cant tell you....but you will. I can understand more where you come from.

Here is anther thing im gonna hit you on tho
you said "They're winning ideally, not militarily. "

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are not winning in any way shape or form!!!!!
They have little chance of ever winning this conflict either ideologically or millitarilly..

We might slip up at some point and do something "not like the good guys", but even then that wont be a victory for them, only a mistake on our part.

Originally posted by CazMedia
OK, so your young, and ohh i wish i was 18 again, but
not that being young is wrong, but as you age you will begin to see things differently, how i cant tell you....but you will. I can understand more where you come from.

Yes, change is inevitable. But that doesn't mean it'll happen the way you want or see it. Change is different for everyone. You should realize that. All this time you've implied that I would see things your way. Otherwise, this wouldn't have been an issue, assuming you realized people change in ways different from yourself.

Here is anther thing im gonna hit you on tho
you said "They're winning ideally, not militarily. "

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are not winning in any way shape or form!!!!!
They have little chance of ever winning this conflict either ideologically or millitarilly..

We might slip up at some point and do something "not like the good guys", but even then that wont be a victory for them, only a mistake on our part.

I was talking about the whole "you can't change the way people think" aspect.