Plz Stop Crusade In India (Conversion Of Hindus)

reply to post by saint4God


No, I meant to ask how would you feel if there was an Atheist channel on TV preaching that there is no God 24/7, Spaghetti Monster Witnesses of Atheism knocking on your door giving away free swatches (and what not, trying to "save" you from God)...

How would you feel if pamphlets about how bad religion and belief are found in the bathrooms, hospitals, doctor offices, schools, mail boxes and on the windshield of our cars, people selling "No God" t-shirts and bumper stickers all over the place...how would you feel if Atheist "messiah" said to all of them to go out and tell everybody "good news" and they REALLY did it with the same "passion" Christians (and other religions) are doing ?

Would you think that that would be something they would not like to be done to them?

Originally posted by 5thElement
No, I meant to ask how would you feel if there was an Atheist channel on TV preaching that there is no God 24/7, Spaghetti Monster Witnesses of Atheism knocking on your door giving away free swatches (and what not, trying to "save" you from God)...

Aren't they doing this already on most channels? Maybe we need to swap TV's.

Originally posted by 5thElement
How would you feel if pamphlets about how bad religion and belief are found in the bathrooms, hospitals, doctor offices, schools, mail boxes and on the windshield of our cars, people selling "No God" t-shirts and bumper stickers all over the place...how would you feel if Atheist "messiah" said to all of them to go out and tell everybody "good news" and they REALLY did it with the same "passion" Christians (and other religions) are doing ?

When I was a college student, I found myself the target of these above, but aside from that, it's everyone's right to do so. If you ever go to the Smithsonian (public museum in Washington D.C.) odds are you'll meet and receive a free book from Hare Krishna's. It's called the Bhagavad Gita, a rather interesting read actually. There have been a number of people who've knocked on my door who do not believe in what I do. I've opened it and talked to them. Some I no longer open the door for because they 'swap out' the people I've talked to after a few weeks. Not sure why they do this but don't have the ambition to start all over again.

Originally posted by 5thElement
Would you think that that would be something they would not like to be done to them?

No. I'm not sure where you live, but it appears I'm in a more religiously diverse region that believes in discussing these things more openly. Different religion should not = fight. I've had regular discussions with Buddists, Wiccans, Taoist, Satanists, Hindus and others...not once did anyone raise their fist or voice. Some of them shared with me what they found as good news. When my Wiccan friend tells me, "Goddess bless" I say "thank you" for wishing me well. I didn't throw a chair or start jumping up and down on the couch.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


Very interesting answer, I've never heard evangelism explained in those terms.

Do you feel a sense of destiny or a sense of duty when engaging in evangelism?

I would say it is considerably easier to convince a poor man to convert his religion. I would also say it is easier to convert an uneducated person (from any religion to any religion). This is simply because it is easier to coax a person into conversion if they are in material need or educationally ignorant.

From what I've seen of religious organisations engaging in charity, they always encourage conversion. There are very, very few exceptions: Jewish, Buddhist and true Hindu (ie not hare krishnas) organisations.

If it were just a case of purely altruistic giving, then why engage in evangelism at all? Why is it that Christian organisations evangelise primarily the uneducated, low caste and poor in India? Why is it that the Mormons find most of their converts in Brazil? Personally I think its because the missionaries are greeted as more advanced, and therefore their word is accepted as truth.

Conversion occurs through all socio-economic demographics, and is perfectly acceptable to me.
Evangelism is primarily targeted at those of a low status in life, and strikes me as predatory.

Hahahaha what a loda bull.... hindus are eventually gona leave hinduism because there are too many gods ehh hmm 'animals' to worship.

Topped up with BS like Cow-Co-Cola and rat juice just puts all those poor hindus off.....trust me it really does....

I think hinduism is funny stuff, i swear if the hardcore hindus open up their own TV channel, i would actually subscribe to it for some friday night comedy.

reply to post by merkava


You're a real class act pal!

I was just about to post a diatribe about your religion, but then I realised thats not really what ATS is about.

You really do test my patience Merkava... and what, no comment in the Pakistan thread about my post on Gul?

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by merkava

 

I was just about to post a diatribe about your religion,

Post away all you want pal cos it ain't gona make any difference For Real except you getting labeled 'ignorant'.

and what, no comment in the Pakistan thread about my post on Gul?

I was gona comment on the thread which would have shut you up for good but than i thought why bother when you already know the whole sketch.I am still waiting for the dogs to stop barking and start biting.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Very interesting answer, I've never heard evangelism explained in those terms.

Thank you ^_^, I always take 'food for thought' as a compliment.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Do you feel a sense of destiny or a sense of duty when engaging in evangelism?

This is perhaps one of the most complex questions I've gotten on ATS because I understand so little about the answer myself but will do my best to explain. I don't feel "you must or else!" when it comes to evangelism nor "from this day forward, you're an evangelist!" kind of command. I have noticed however that I end up in situations where I know 3 out of 4 questions...but not the remaining one. For example, I may know where, how, and why but not who. Or, I may know who, why, and where but wrestle with how. 3 out of 4 for me however, is progress as I spent many years knowing only 1 if that. The answer is connection. The better connected with God a person is, the clearer these things become. Connection can be improved through prayer, worship, fellowship, Bible, and ministry. Kinda like a quarterback at in the playoffs, you know when you're in the zone and when you're not.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
I would say it is considerably easier to convince a poor man to convert his religion. I would also say it is easier to convert an uneducated person (from any religion to any religion). This is simply because it is easier to coax a person into conversion if they are in material need or educationally ignorant.

There shouldn't be any coaxing. God sees the heart. If someone says "I'm saved!" to get dinner that night, may they be doubley blessed because they're in it for the wrong reason and God knows it. The food they receive satisfies for a short while, but the bread of God never leaves a person hungry.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
From what I've seen of religious organisations engaging in charity, they always encourage conversion. There are very, very few exceptions: Jewish, Buddhist and true Hindu (ie not hare krishnas) organisations.

If it were just a case of purely altruistic giving, then why engage in evangelism at all?

Often people don't know why people do things, charity included. If you disclose your motive, it makes it easier to understand the reasoning.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Why is it that Christian organisations evangelise primarily the uneducated, low caste and poor in India?

Do they? I don't know, I don't see any reason to discriminate. I can say there are a lot more people in India who are in the lower caste than very rich.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Why is it that the Mormons find most of their converts in Brazil? Personally I think its because the missionaries are greeted as more advanced, and therefore their word is accepted as truth.

They're in my neighborhood, it's one of the groups I've had many discussions with.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Conversion occurs through all socio-economic demographics, and is perfectly acceptable to me.
Evangelism is primarily targeted at those of a low status in life, and strikes me as predatory.

1 a: of, relating to, or practicing plunder, pillage, or rapine b: inclined or intended to injure or exploit others for personal gain or profit

- www.merriam-webster.com...

Why seek profit from the poor? From a strategic standpoint, if someone were seeking funds, would they not pursue the monetarily well-endowed? Who are Christians pillaging? Who are they injuring? Who are they exploiting?

Matters of faith and belief are often held dearly and sacredly merkava, surely you would not appreciate others making fun of the things you hold dear to your heart.

Originally posted by saint4God
Matters of faith and belief are often held dearly and sacredly merkava, surely you would not appreciate others making fun of the things you hold dear to your heart.

Once upon the time someone said:

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think

Originally posted by 5thElement
Once upon the time someone said:

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think

Careful placing yourself on a pedistal it does hurt when you fall...moreso when everyone is laughing while you're lying on the ground. Having been on the ground however, I'd be glad to help anyone back to their feet.

Originally posted by merkava
Post away all you want pal cos it ain't gona make any difference For Real except you getting labeled 'ignorant'.

That is exactly what your previous post was, IGNORANT....

People like you are what is causing the problem we have now.

This is about as backwards reporting as it gets. Hindus have been slaughtering christians throughout India in recent months. I praise God that Indians are still converting to Jesus, as God shares his love with displays of awesome power.

hindus mightaswel Call it a day with their religion.ISlam, christianity and sikhism are starting to become more dominant over hinduism and it will probably be within next 20-30 years that hinduism will become an extinct religion.

hinduism is a very un-organized religion which is eventually gona lead to its downfall.No set gods, no set rules, no set worshipping places, it's just as random as it comes full of comedy.

the hardcore hindus in india are getting very annoyed and are using every means to intimidate other religions that are threatning its existance.Christian missionaries and ISlamic Ja'maats sting em real hard.

Originally posted by AshleyD


So 2.3% who are being persecuted are actually persecuting the billion plus minority? I know many here will think it's ok because they're just stupid Christians but stop and think about it.

Factual error here. That is 2.3% of 1 billion. Which is a HUGE number. Also, dont forget that India also has a HUGE population of Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Jews, atheists etc.

There arent 1 billion Hindu's in India. That is a factually incorrect.

Originally posted by merkava
hindus mightaswel Call it a day with their religion.ISlam, christianity and sikhism are starting to become more dominant over hinduism and it will probably be within next 20-30 years that hinduism will become an extinct religion.

hinduism is a very un-organized religion which is eventually gona lead to its downfall.No set gods, no set rules, no set worshipping places, it's just as random as it comes full of comedy.

the hardcore hindus in india are getting very annoyed and are using every means to intimidate other religions that are threatning its existance.Christian missionaries and ISlamic Ja'maats sting em real hard.

Comparing the histories of these religions, I would say that history has proven Hinduism is the most resilient of all religions. If you consider the history of India, after the Vedic age when all of India was either hindu or animistic they have seen a LOT of religions come and go. First it was Buddhism and Jainism that spread like wildfire through India. Even their greatest historical king Ashoka was Buddhist. Next they were subjected to about 3-4 centuries of direct Islamic rule. After which they were subjected to nearly 2 centuries of British rule which brought the missionaries in. Through all this Hinduism has prevailed and still remains the majority religion even after almost a millenium of rule by other religions.

It would be safe to say, that Hinduism is going no where anytime soon. Rather, today with increased Hindu fundamentalism, other religions are more threatened than ever before. In modern India, Hindu fundamentalism is so widespread that each time Hindu fundamentalists have rioted, the Indian government has not been able to act. The recent riots in Gujrath brought about nearly 100,000 Hindu's to riot in one state against what they perceived to be Muslim attack on hindu pilgrims. The same thing happened in the 90s as well close to a million Hindu's destroyed a mosque in North India. How do you control a spontaneous violent mob of a million people? Its impossible for any police organization to control those numbers.

Originally posted by merkava

I think hinduism is funny stuff, i swear if the hardcore hindus open up their own TV channel, i would actually subscribe to it for some friday night comedy.

I dont know which part of the world you live in but in the USA you can get about 3-4 Hindu channels on satellite tv. In the UK I think there are more.

I am sure in India they have many more Hindu channels.

Also, internationally, they show a lot more Yoga on different channels than they do anything about Islam. Islam is generally covered in the News channels.

Originally posted by merkava
hindus mightaswel Call it a day with their religion.ISlam, christianity and sikhism are starting to become more dominant over hinduism and it will probably be within next 20-30 years that hinduism will become an extinct religion.

hinduism is a very un-organized religion which is eventually gona lead to its downfall.No set gods, no set rules, no set worshipping places, it's just as random as it comes full of comedy.

the hardcore hindus in india are getting very annoyed and are using every means to intimidate other religions that are threatning its existance.Christian missionaries and ISlamic Ja'maats sting em real hard.

Muslims might as well call it a day... you guys are either going to blow yourselves up to the point of extinction or become even more retarded as you continue to marry your own cousins. You think Hinduism is backward only because it is so entirely different from your world view. In your eyes if a woman is raped, its her fault and she is to be lashed for adultery. In your eyes if a person kills civilians, he is a martyr.

My religion is timeless. Yours belongs in a cave in the middle ages.

Hinduism's strength and philosophy is not accessible to you as you have no discernible intellect. For as long as you live, you will never understand it. I don't need to defend Hinduism from you or your religion. You will face it as one faces the ocean. Infinite water drops, infinite philosophies and beliefs- insurmountable and indefeatable as a whole.

Go and blindly follow your own dogmatic path and leave the rest of us alone to discuss the issues like grown ups.

Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by merkava

Through all this Hinduism has prevailed and still remains the majority religion even after almost a millenium of rule by other religions.

hinduism might have been a huge thing million years ago when stone idols were worshipped as gods. But when the Jews, Christians and Muslims came along, they pretty much wiped out the idols by telling their followers that these pathetic idols can’t even protect themselves, so what protection will they give you followers?

The latest example was how the Taliban blew up the bamyan buddas.Japs were ready to sign a blank cheque for those buddas but Mullah Omar the Taliban leader said ‘he was born to destroy idols’.

It would be safe to say, that Hinduism is going no where anytime soon. Rather, today with increased Hindu fundamentalism, other religions are more threatened than ever before. In modern India, Hindu fundamentalism is so widespread that each time Hindu fundamentalists have rioted, the Indian government has not been able to act. The recent riots in Gujrath brought about nearly 100,000 Hindu's to riot in one state against what they perceived to be Muslim attack on hindu pilgrims.

Hindu fundamentalism is abit of a joke really, the hardcore hindu mobs are brave enough to run over a single mosque and rape a few women but they ain’t got the guts to kill every Muslim and burn all their mosques to the ground.I can’t really use the word ‘compare’ between hindu mobs weilding stick and machetes with the Islamists who are highly motivated,well trained,well organised,well funded backed up be various agencies and sources that even great powers had to bend over their back into negotiations recently. These hindu mobs know that if they dare treat the Muslims as they treat Christians than it will be an all out civil war in india. Gujrat and barbari mosque siege was just a little preview that muslims don’t chicken out like Christians. Hundreds and thousands of hindus have died due to Islamic militancy in india since than.

I dont know which part of the world you live in but in the USA you can get about 3-4 Hindu channels on satellite tv. In the UK I think there are more.

I just checked my Sky box in UK, only 1 hindu religious channel and about a dozen Islamic religious channels.

Another thing about hindus is that when they move to the west, they forget their own culture, religion and honour. I guess the Phds and $$$$$$$ appeals more to them than their own religion.When I talk to hindus about cows as their gods, they start laughing and say they don’t have anything to do with it.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by merkava]

Originally posted by merkava
hinduism might have been a huge thing million years ago when stone idols were worshipped as gods. But when the Jews, Christians and Muslims came along, they pretty much wiped out the idols by telling their followers that these pathetic idols can’t even protect themselves, so what protection will they give you followers?

The latest example was how the Taliban blew up the bamyan buddas.Japs were ready to sign a blank cheque for those buddas but Mullah Omar the Taliban leader said ‘he was born to destroy idols’.

Again, totally wrong. A million years ago, there was no mankind. Man has been around for just 10,000 years.
Also, Jews, Christians and Muslims didnt come from a place where Hinduism was prevelant.
Third, the Bamiyan Buddha's are "Buddhist" and it is self evident that these are Not Hindu idols, their significance is historical not so much religious. Mullah Omar's attitude reflects the true savagery he is practices and symbolizes. As have other's like him before.
Lastly, in Hinduism the idols are not the central focus of the religion but rather it is enlightenment. Protection, safety, material gain etc are primitive ambitions and needs that Hindu's back in the Vedic age itself knew were not worthwhile goals. The indigenous religions of the Middle East which were idolatry and animistic were probably the victims of the monotheistic zealotry you represent.

Originally posted by merkava
Hindu fundamentalism is abit of a joke really, the hardcore hindu mobs are brave enough to run over a single mosque and rape a few women but they ain’t got the guts to kill every Muslim and burn all their mosques to the ground.I can’t really use the word ‘compare’ between hindu mobs weilding stick and machetes with the Islamists who are highly motivated,well trained,well organised,well funded backed up be various agencies and sources that even great powers had to bend over their back into negotiations recently.

Yes, you really cant compare can you? Which is definitely a good thing in many ways.
The main reason is Hindu's are impaired with this thing called a conscience. It doesnt grant them the same capacity for the kind of inhuman savagery that Muslims display; training for months on end for suicide missions against civilian targets as a symbol of bravery ? Demonstrably Hindu fundamentalism is more spontaneous outbursts of violence.
Also, I would imagine one more factor is that unlike Islamic fundamentalists, Hindu's generally tend to live in civilized parts of the world and basically subscribe to the civilized ethics. While I'm sure the genocide of muslims would be palpable to a few Hindu fundamentalists, neither the state nor the majority would allow such barbarism to pass unchecked for long. Hindu fundamentalism is in that way more reactionary in nature rather than the pre-meditation of Muslim fundamentalists. Also most notably, Hindu fundamentalists seek active political participation unlike Muslim fundamentalists who resort only to savage military campaigns against civilians.

Originally posted by merkava
These hindu mobs know that if they dare treat the Muslims as they treat Christians than it will be an all out civil war in india. Gujrat and barbari mosque siege was just a little preview that muslims don’t chicken out like Christians. Hundreds and thousands of hindus have died due to Islamic militancy in india since than.

This again is factually incorrect. The total death toll for ALL Indians from Islamic terrorist attacks is somewhere around the 50,000 mark taking into account attacks from all parts of India. This includes Kashmir. Even Statistically, that would mean, around 85-87% Hindu's. Nowhere near the "hundreds of thousands" you claim.
If you look at history, Islamic terrorists have carrier out attack on Indians long before the two incidents that you've mentioned. Also, there have been worse atrocities towards Muslims in India than Christians. In fact, the recent situation against the Christian missionaries in the tribal districts of Orrisa was the first wide spread flash point between the communities. While Muslims have always had to suffer violence.

Further, Gujrath and Babri Mosque conflicts actually highlighted the vulnerability of Muslims in India against Hindu fundamentalists rather than what you've said. In both situations they were haplessly attacked. Of course, the scale of the Gujrat riots cannot be compared to the sporadic violence in Orrisa between Christians and Hindu's there. Also, Christians in Orrisa were able to present a more balanced response to the attacks they faced compared to the Muslim populace in most conflicts.

Originally posted by merkava
I just checked my Sky box in UK, only 1 hindu religious channel and about a dozen Islamic religious channels.

Another thing about hindus is that when they move to the west, they forget their own culture, religion and honour. I guess the Phds and $$$$$$$ appeals more to them than their own religion.When I talk to hindus about cows as their gods, they start laughing and say they don’t have anything to do with it.

As for TV, I dont know about TV in the UK but in the US we have 3-4 channels on DirectTv. Maybe the package you have is not of a high enough grade to give you access to all channels. BTW, I havent seen any Islamic tv other than Al Jazeera and Al arabiya.

As for Hindu's in the West, I think in the UK they are more active but even in the US they are quite active. However, unlike Muslims they blend into the host culture where as Muslims generally tend to form ghettos and exclusive communities to sustain themselves. They do not face the kind of aversion from locals like the Muslims do because of terrorism. In America I have seen very few muslims who claim to follow their religion strictly and go to mosque 5 times a day and grow beards and wear a rag on their head. Most muslims dont usually say that they are muslim but it is easy to find out from their names.

In Hinduism, cows are not gods but rather held sacred. And unlike rigid Islam, Hinduism is more a philosophy in which there are no real hard and fast rules. Everybody is allowed to follow their own set of practices with few limitations.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by IAF101]

[edit on 7-3-2009 by IAF101]