Plz Stop Crusade In India (Conversion Of Hindus)

reply to post by ModernAcademia

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I'm not sure why you are being so hard on that member for claiming something that is very understandable. And that is, the seemingly polytheistic nature of Hinduism.

I totally understand what you are saying and actually agree with you (think of the Christian trinity, three entities in one). But please don't be so harsh with Dom for citing something that does actually have an appearance of truth to it, which makes it a very common and understandable claim. This supports his studies as well as yours and explains the misconceptions:

Support for Dom:



Support for you:



Source for both of the above external quotes.

It would be like a non Christian thinking we are polytheists due to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, we as Christians know they are united in a trinitarian relationship. It's understandable confusion.

reply to post by AshleyD

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Yes you are correct, I apologize for being harsh.
See the thing is that I have a really bad toothache!
And I even get mad at hindus when they pluralize god and say gods
But when they speak hindi however they make it singular and say rab or bhagavan. Sometimes it's just bad english.

In Hinduism, everything that you see, hear, touch, smell or taste has divinity -- that is, comes from God. Since everything is God, you cannot ascribe an individual name and form to it as mentioned.

The moment you delineate God by one name or form you have circumscribed him and limited him by the shallowness of worldly expressions and imagery.

In fact, anything that has name and form is a creation of the mind. Try to think of something which has neither name nor form. Even supposedly abstract concepts like colour are not abstract in our scientific understanding of the world, they have name and form.

Even qualities like honesty and fairness can be recognised and talked about only through their names. Nothing that exists is without name and form. But all that exists has a common factor.

Just as all gold ornaments, though different in name and form, have gold as their commonality of content,

No name or form will describe Him fully. Therefore, say the vedas, all names and forms are His. An idol is only symbolic of this statement, that all names and forms are His.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by ModernAcademia]

No worries whatsoever. I've read and enjoyed many of your posts in the past and have seen you are usually very courteous. I also totally understand how easily it is to get overly passionate about defending our beliefs and how that sometimes results in us forgetting ourselves.

On a side note, we can form The Sore Mouth Club. I just had all four of my wisdom teeth pulled last week and it is PAINFUL. We can be miserable together, ok?

[edit on 12/17/2008 by AshleyD]

lol sounds good!

it's basically my fault for delaying my dentist appointment for....years!

reply to post by ModernAcademia

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Ooooo. kaaaay. 1st off Hinduism can be monotheistic and polytheistic. There is praying to 1 God as well as Shiva, Vishnu, Krishna, Cows, and a vast array of dieties so you have both sides to the argument within one path. I know hinduism to a pretty good extent.

To say I chose Xianity cause I was lazy, is to say you are a prime example of a speculater. You do not know me one bit, so to say that, is pretty idealistically inclined towards a preconceived notion.

I prayed one day for God to save me and show me where he is, next day an old friend calls me(whom I hadn't talked to for 3 years) to tell me he's going to school to be a pastor and if I would like to start Bible studies. Technically, I didn't choose Jesus and his path, but he chose me. I said yes, studied for 14 months, got baptized then about 2 months later received Spiritual Enlightenment, third eye open, seeing behind the veil, senses enhanced, going beyond mere logic/reason, etc

I only know that God is real and that I experience Spiritual Enlightenment that gets deeper and deeper by the day, and endless infinite abyss of being.

Jesus updated the program and makes it possible for the average Joe to achieve Enlightenment. All other paths you have to leave to monasteries.

And as for Islam, so far from my debates w/ some muslim friends I know, they completely take Bible scripts out of context to Justify that Mohammed was predicted by Jesus as showing up later on the scene. They have taken so much stuff out of context and non of them have Enlightenment when I ask them and in general nobody in Islam has the balls to claim Spiritual Enlightenment, except for Sufi's, a mystical off-branch.

So thats why I need more time to study Islam before I can count it as relevant, which to me I can only take a path serious if it includes grace, infinite Love, something that covers a persons sins, and the claim of transcendent Divine Love, Holy Spirit within, and specifically claiming Spiritual Enlightenment.

everything else seems to be smoke and mirrors. key word, "seems"

I am Hindu, I think I know
Did you read my posts in this thread stating how it is monotheistic?
Cows aren't worshipped, they are taboo
Respond to my response by quoting it regarding how hinduism is monotheistic



Jesus updated which program?


The same thing can be said about christians
And when non-christians put it in contexts christians just say "oh that's allegorical"

Personally I believe Jesus never existed
Don't be offended though, i'm just stating my opinion that's all
There are just too many points that infers that he never existed
And no points saying that he did

I've read much of the bible
However bedtime stories and fairytales wont' make anyone more spiritual

So a story about Noah's ark, and putting trillions of animals all on one boat makes no sense to me

And if Jesus did exist, he was never crucified
There used to be a lamb on the cross at first, it took christianity over a century to finally decide to put jesus on the cross instead

Also nobody ever read the bible either
Even the vatican admits that the bible went through decades of re-writes by church elders

reply to post by mr.m79

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I'm a Christian and I sponsor a young boy in India. I pay $40 a month to send him to school and feed and house him. He is attending a Christian school where he is learning the true love of Christ.

I get tired of hearing Hindus blame Christians for their problems. Your country is filled with Hindu people living in absolutel squalor. Women are abused and neglected as are children. It's sickening. There is an overwhelming feeling of sadness and hopelessness in your cities. Christians are killed in India, for their beliefs. They are the ones being persecuted. I have heard first hand accounts from Christians in Nepal that have been threatened by Hindus. I know a Christian woman in Nepal that was disowned by her family because she converted from Hinduism to Christianity and married her husband, also a convert. I've seen the tears in her eyes when she speaks of the loss of her family and friends all because she chose to follow Christ - they have extreme hate for her solely because of her Christian faith. It's sickening.

The sex trade in India, Nepal, Indonesia, etc, of women and children is absolutely disgusting and vile - straight out of the pit of hell. Christian organizations are over there helping these women and children to escape from their captors.

While the other Christian haters on this board will fall for all your propaganda, I certainly will not. It's a free country that I LIVE IN, so I believe you have the right to say whatever you feel, but I do not have to agree with it and I will continue to help my little guy in India to succeed in life, inspite of where he was born.

That's a great deed you are doing and I respect that of you
Is this boy a christian?
What's his first name if I may ask?


I am hindu and I don't hear much of hindus blaming christians for anything
Only thing I may hear is them blaming the UK for invading India and stealing all their resources

Also regarding your rant about India... well any educated person knows these kind of things happen in an overpopulated 3rd world country

In India you will find the best of people you've ever met and the worst of people.

Also, I don't know if you've been keeping up with the economy but there's alot of feelings of sadness and hopelessness in your cities too




lol, based on your Username, I'll assume you know of Ron Paul's message
If so then you should know that you do NOT live in a free country lol
You are loosing rights and freedoms on a daily basis while being bankrupt more and more and more

What I can say to you is that you seem angry

Are there bad people in your country?
Guess what, India too

There's bad people in every country, and of course also in overpopulated 3rd world one

There's no need to be so angry
I am hindu and I do not advocate violence against any community for religious or any other reason

A few points if I may:

1. Hinduism isnt a single religion. No person can speak for all Hindus- we have no pope nor F.D. Hinduism can be either polytheistic or monotheistic... depending on your level of advancement and understanding.

You really want to try explaining the immortal philosophy of the vedas to a street dweller? He can gain nothing of use for his day to day life... So instead he focuses on the plethora of gods, praying to whoever he wants.

Personally Im a monist, but I would never presume to speak for any other Hindus... their variety is as extensive as there are names on the planet.

2. I believe Jesus existed and was a manifestation of the Supreme. Again, thats just my personal view and is not incompatible with Hinduism.

3. Its great to sponsor children to give them a leg up in life. I attended a catholic school early on in my life, I sung all the hymns and prayers and yet I didn't lose my faith. The kid you're sponsoring could well follow the same path. There is scope for worshipping as a Christian within Hinduism... it just seems that the other way around is unacceptable to most Christians- this is what breeds the resentment towards some evangelicals.

A Hindu can have a cross at his altar at home (eg my Aunt was given a cross by a friend, so she put it on her altar at home). Could a Christian do the same for a Hindu symbol?

I think essentially there is space for absolutism within plurality, but not the other way around.

If we were all a bit more syncretic the world would be a better place.

I do not speak for hinduism, my book speaks for it
Just as you don't speak for christianity, nor does the pope, the bible does
it's written in stone
no pope? So what, if the pope speaks for you...
That means that Nazi represents your belief system? LOL
Nobody believes the pope or Vatican speaks for them
everyone knows they are evil


Have you ever been to India
these street dwellers you speak of, many of them do understand it
Some more than homeowners



Yes it is kind of
Hinduism educates you to treat all living things as equals
Jesus ate meat
God would NOT eat his own children i'm sorry


3. Its great to sponsor children to give them a leg up in life. I attended a catholic school early on in my life, I sung all the hymns and prayers and yet I didn't lose my faith. The kid you're sponsoring could well follow the same path. There is scope for worshipping as a Christian within Hinduism... it just seems that the other way around is unacceptable to most Christians- this is what breeds the resentment towards some evangelicals.


What's more important than that question is many christians meditate and are vegetarian. Symbols are just symbols

reply to post by ModernAcademia

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Guess what, not even your book speaks for Hinduism.

There is no such single entity known as Hinduism. There are numerous books, numerous leaders etc.

The pope is not a Nazi… I have no idea what you’re talking about.

And of course I’ve been to India… I was born there. I guess you must have been born in Canada, visited India a couple of times as a tourist and met some “interesting” street dwellers. Perhaps you should consider visiting India as an Indian- you would see the truth. Idealising the condition and capabilities of street dwellers will not help them or your understanding in the long term.

My point was that Hinduism is incredibly flexible for a reason. The basest members of society will find value in the rituals etc. The highest sages will seek enlightenment and philosophical progression via the undying, eternal Vedas. This is the same with religions in general. Each race is more suited to a certain style of religion on the whole. I would never be satisfied with an absolutist religion (any of the Abrahamic faiths, for example)- but I realize that the teachings and teachers (inc. Jesus), were sent for the advancement of those who do find value in those religions.

No offence, but you seem to be one of the folks who are more interested in the rituals, rules etc of the religion. I encourage you from one Hindu to another to go and read the philosophical strains of the religion. Go and read Vivekananda or Shankaracharya. If you fail to learn about your own religion’s true light then how is it any different to a Hindu who has been converted away from his true faith?

Also:
Jesus may have eaten meat. So what? I doubt you are versed in the Ashvamedha, the Kamdhenu sacrifices etc. I bet you are totally unaware that the ancient Aryan sages (who incepted the Rig Veda) ate beef. The discussion is not about vegetarianism so I will stop there, but please stop your childish belief that you have the ultimate authoritative version of Hinduism. If there is one thing I have learnt, it is that I will inevitably proven wrong down the line by someone or some teaching more advanced than me. Absolutism is a waste of time. As is ignoring a valid spiritual teacher such as Jesus just because he ate meat.

reply to post by mr.m79

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Firstly I'd like to say it's quite refreshing to have the opportunity to engage in dialogue with people from a Hindu background.

What I hear in this thread is the pain/frustration of someone who feels the cultural identity of their family/community is being threatened by individuals expressing faith in Jesus Christ and deciding to follow him. If those of us engaged in the discussion are to learn anything from the experience I believe we need to

a) acknowledge the reality and depth of the pain felt and

b) focus on the reality of what becoming a follower of Christ entails - as opposed to introducing stereotypes and defamation via association with historical events long past which are in reality widely condemned by Christians and followers of other faiths alike. (To be specific, as a British follower of Christ I personally express outrage at the political and economic pillaging of India once perpetrated by the British empire, and condemn as 100% anti-Christian any hint of violence perpetrated by any so-called 'Christian' community whether in India or anywhere else on this globe.)

I'd now like to address some of the specific points you have raised.



It has to be said this is simply not Christian practice. It is most certainly not in accordance with Christ's teaching. (The experience of many Christians is that they are, sadly, ostracized by family and friends, and that it breaks their heart.) If what you describe is accurate I can only surmise that we are talking about something masquerading as the Christian faith, and the only group I know of that is large enough to be a possible candidate is the Watchtower Society, i.e. JWs, regarded by the Christian churches as a cult.


Rather than continuing with the assumption that we are dealing with a pseudo-christian group I think it will be more helpful if I seek to lay out reasons why the above might possibly occur. It is possible that a Christian might feel a Hindu gathering that may involve the honouring of a Hindu deity/deities is idolatrous, and there is no getting away from the fact that idolatry is forbidden in the 10 commandments. Some Christians might find they could attend out of love for their friends/relatives, but it would probably mean they are present at the level of an observer rather than a participant, at least for parts of the ceremonies.

In the same way that a Christian can recognize the pain of a Hindu seeing a friend/relative leaving their faith community, cannot a practicing Hindu recognize the inner turmoil of a Christian faced with such dilemmas? Believe me, I have been there myself. But if the family could only come to recognize that their relative/friend is only acting in accordance with their conscience, a degree of mutual understanding and respect could be maintained. All that is really required is a willingness on both parts to talk the issues through so as to dispel the inevitable initial misunderstandings.


I can only assume we are either looking at the JW scenario or the son was subjected to bitter resentment when last home. Obviously this is conjecture, but I am speaking from the perspective of one who is familiar with what the New Testament teaches.


Are you really so opposed to someone discussing their faith with another? Are you against freedom of religion? Is there not a bond between relatives that goes deeper than the need to agree? Would his sister be loved less as a person if her beliefs differed from those of her relatives? Forgive me for being so direct, but if you unexpectedly changed your deepest-held beliefs would you not hope to still be accepted by your relatives on the basis of who you are as a person?


I understand what you mean, in terms of the eldest son having a special role, and this does go some way to explaining why your uncle may be feeling great inner turmoil. I will not pretend the solution might be quick and easy, but I do believe there is hope, which will come out below.


There is nothing sinister in this, any more than friends who enjoy the same music living together.


This was bracketed, but is in fact very helpful information. They are not JWs, just normal Christians (-sorry, I forgot you had said this when I started my reply). This being so you can be sure he is not forbidden from meeting Hindu friends/relatives! (It is not impossible that he is in fear of them, however.)


My friend, that is what I too have been trying to say. Given the chance, I am sure your uncle's son would express the same heart-felt conviction.


What you say here is crucial. It is clearly one of the central issues. Nevertheless it is not one issue, but two.

Firstly - and I sincerely hope this relieves some of your worst fears - this is what the New Testament teaches:


1 Timothy 5 verses 4 and 8 (Note - I have added the words in bracket, for clarity)


You are right to point out any facts that undo unfair stereotypes.


This is true, my friend, and this is the second issue I spoke of above. However the issue is not that Christians are against followers of other faiths/religions - not at all. The issue is at once more subtle and more fundamental. We believe the Being who created everything from the stars to the ants came into the world in the form of a man - mankind being the pinnacle of his creation, and the centre of his love and attention. In the same way a parent craves the love of the children that are so dear to them, we believe this Creator is jealous when men and women honour/worship other deities.

As Bible-believing Christians (such as those represented by the group you mentioned) we accept this brings tensions and difficulties with those who follow other teachings. But in reality real Christian love ignores differences in beliefs in other people whenever it comes to relating to them. We find joy in showing benevolence/kindness to all no matter who they are or what they believe. Jesus Christ even told us to


Matthew chapter 5 verse 44

Such love has little to do with sentimental feelings. It is a determination to do good to all in all circumstances.

Thus if your uncle's son is a true disciple of Christ, although he will no longer follow the Hindu religion, he will do all in his power to honour and love both his parents and his relatives. After all, while the second of the 10 commandments is "Do not make an idol... you must not bow down to them or worship them...", the fifth is "Honour your father and your mother" (Exodus ch.20 v.4a&12a).

While there will be difference there is real hope for strong family ties, (as long as the willingness is mutual).

hello sister ,
by u r reply i can feel that u don`t like Hindu , Hinduisom & Hindu feelings as well , leave all the religious behind, but the above think u said is rubbish think, sex trade is all over the world not only in the countrys u hav mentioned . ppl in india or the Hindus dont support any sex trade . but we r a developing country we will look at our problem such problems take time to solve.

and about equality u better dont teach because i india ther 2 type of churchs 1 for christians & other 1 for converted christians , & in the other side of world u can c churchs for blacks, this is a mirror of "EQUALITY " in
christian world. A converted christian always kept away from christian socity. He was not given any respect by the catholic christians.

i am posted a vedio about actvity of the churchs & missionaries, c tht agin

link 1: in.youtube.com...

link (part 2 ) : in.youtube.com...

i am thank full that u heleped a poor child , But u helped them only because he and his family converted to christianity. i dont hav any perfect word for u r deed...????!!


namaste prabhu.

reply to post by pause4thought

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Hello Brother & sisters

I never understood why christian missionaries came to India and why they are converting people by false promises. In India there were only Hindus (worlds most peaceful religion) and then came muslims who introduced Islam.

During British rule we got Christianity and they are converting many Hindus by offering them various promises etc. Hinduism never asks anyone to convert into their religion then why is this happening.

In North Korea there were 100 percent Buddhists now there are only 50 percent of them. I dont understand it how can any religion proclaim that there dosent exist Hindu god, or Buddha and only christ is present.

They never try to convert a muslim in India because if they do we all know about its consequences, then why Hindus. I certainly believe they are receiving funding from Vatican to convert people for their own profit.

Another question is why these missionaries say to the converts to remove all Idols and scriptures of Hindu God just because they got converted. These Britishers gave India its Independence but left their religion in India which has the worlds oldest religion (Hinduism) and the most civilized country of the ancient past until British came.

All in all, Christian Missionaries will not hesitate to distort, deceive and defame others in order to propagate their religion. Their devious tactics break every fundamental rule or human benevolence. Instead Missionaries often bring out the worst of humankind.

" And the way u replied me its seems like a propaganda war "

plz c this link : www.bhagavad-gita.org...

i hope u can learn somthing from Hinduisom , plz dont use tactics to spread religion

Namaste.

reply to post by pause4thought

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Shri guru Adi Shankarait teached that,

The soul or the self (Atman) is identical with Brahman. It is not a part of Brahman that ultimately dissolves into Brahman, but the whole Brahman itself. Now the arguers ask how the individual soul, which is limited and one in each body, can be the same as Brahman? Adi Shankara explains that the Self is not an individual concept. Atman is only one and unique. Indeed Atman alone is {Ekaatma Vaadam}. It is a false concept that there are several Atmans {Anekaatma Vaadam}. Adi Shankara says that just as the same moon appears as several moons on its reflections on the surface of water covered with bubbles, the one Atman appears as multiple atmans in our bodies because of Maya. Atman is self-proven, however, some proofs are discussed—eg., a person says "I am blind", "I am happy", "I am fat" etc. The common and constant factor, which permeates all these statements is the "I" which is but the Immutable Consciousness. When the blindness, happiness, fatness are inquired and negated, "I" the common factor which, indeed, alone exists in all three states of consciousness and in all three periods of time, shines forth. This proves the existence of Atman, and that Consciousness, Reality and Bliss are its characteristics. Atman, being the silent witness of all the modifications, is free and beyond sin and merit. It does not experience happiness or pain because it is beyond the triad of Experiencer, Experienced and Experiencing. It does not do any Karma because it is Aaptakaama. It is incorporeal and independent.

When the reflection of atman falls on Avidya (ignorance), atman becomes jīva — a living being with a body and senses. Each jiva feels as if he has his own, unique and distinct Atman, called jivatman. The concept of jiva is true only in the pragmatic level. In the transcendental level, only the one Atman, equal to Brahman, is true.

Adi Shankara exposed the relative and thus unreal nature of the objective world and propounded the truth of the Advaita {One without a second} by analysing the three states of experience of the atman — waking (vaishvanara), dreaming (taijasa), and deep sleep (prajna).

Alright, I was hoping the finger-pointing would come to an end. There's a lot of 'stuff going down' in India just like there's a lot of 'stuff going down' in the Bronx. There's some good things happening in India just as there are some good things happening in Manhattan. My point is this. Christians are not going over there with guns nor with any intent to harm people. No one can make someone else believe something. If someone is telling you something you don't want to hear, ask (politely at first) for them to stop or go away. There's no reason for guns, threats or hate-speech. There is reason to understand and respect that there are people all over this world who need help. Fellow Christians, we're charged with trying to help those who ask. If you're having difficulty finding them, here's a good place to start:

Compassion.com



She's asking for help, would you give it her?

India is part of a growing global economic climate. I know this because my ex-employer just send my last full-time job over there. If India does not want any help from the U.S. then surely they would not be asking for jobs and foreign aid. I'm glad they are though and I hope to God we can help by any means possible.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]

Ummmmm............ yes it does
Explain yourself, what do you mean by this


There are the Vedas and the Gita
You don't know what your talking about
leaders don't mean anything my fried, it's time to wake up


He grew up in Nazi Germany and was part of the Hitler Youth movement


I was born in Chandigarh
Wow you just made a huge long paragraph all based on an assumption
When did I idealise street dweellers?
Are you out of your mind?


I agree with you on the beggining of this post
But you have a lack of understanding of Hinduism nonetheless


I am interested in both
I have studied the philosophy and the quest for enlightment
But I also enjoy the rituals, not from a religious perspective but from a cultural one, all the beautiful colors, the simplicity, the innocence, the mentality.. everything
I am a traditionalist, so although rituals are not the most important aspect of hinduism I love it's beauty nonetheless.


Yes I know they ate beef, I know even the pandavas ate meat
Well I am speaking on what I know
from my perspective you are the one portraying yourself as the authoritive figure, not me.

Jesus was no spiritual leader
If he was, tell me some of his teachings that has helped you

reply to post by mr.m79

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Hi, and thankyou for your replies. I hope we can have a meaningful dialogue. (Please note that when you appeared to quote me, as follows:

" And the way u replied me its seems like a propaganda war "

I certainly never addressed you in such a manner - perhaps it was someone else earlier in the thread.)

Sadly I now realise you have heard a lot about counterfeit Christianity. There are indeed charlatans who pretend to follow Christ, but are really only interested in money and self-promotion, etc. Christ himself warned against such people, calling them "wolves in sheep's clothing". The same goes for those who make false claims about healings or coerce people into their meetings or so-called 'churches'. I stand with you against all such corrupt practices.

At the same time I have to sound a note of caution concerning the videos you posted. Certain things that were said indicate that they are propaganda and not based on fact (although if there is any truth I am as appalled as you are, as I already said). For example, in the second video there is talk of the priest being paid double what the pastor is paid. This makes no sense whatsoever, as protestant churches are led by pastors, whereas catholic churches are led by priests. There is no church anywhere in the world where the two work together to lead a church! The story is simply nonsensical.

Secondly, talk of the lights going out during a service so that the "priests pastors and elders" could rape the women is very childish propaganda. Quite apart from the fact no church has such a structure even charlatans don't behave like that - it is clearly in the realm of fairy stories.

I'll now try to address some of your specific questions.


You are apparently unaware of the evidence that the Christian faith reached India about 2,000 years ago. Here is some initial information:


You can read a great deal more about this here:

en.wikipedia.org...

Just scroll down to 'Thomas and India'

Furthermore, as I have indicated, those who truly follow Christ's teachings never engage in coercion to convert anyone. They simply explain/proclaim Christ and his teaching.


As a protestant I do not look to the Vatican or follow the Pope's teaching. I only follow Christ. However I am totally unconvinced that Catholic priests engage in such activities in any systematic way (even if perhaps there have been some occasional abuses).


It seems that you never actually read my previous reply, as I specifically addressed the issue of why Christians reject all idols.


I'm afraid you have swallowed a great deal of anti-christian propaganda. I rather doubt you have ever met a true disciple of Christ, which is unfortunate.

Thankyou for your second reply, in which you set out some of your beliefs. I will gladly look at what you said and follow up the link you provided as well in order to better understand your perspective. I am more than happy to learn about the Hindu religion insofar as it can promote mutual understanding.

By the same token I would hope you would come to differentiate between someone seeking to explain the Christian faith to people in India and someone pretending to be a Christian but actually engaging in dishonest practices that go against every principle of Christian teaching!

reply to post by ModernAcademia

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it really depends who you ask in hinduism. Some will say its a poly, some will say mono, it seems to me more like a cross. But there's no poin arguing this. I shall proceed to the next parts

Jesus updated the Spiritual program, the path to God, the way to Enlightenment, to the truth, to transcendent Love, etc. Is pure grace, free gifts, everything is handed to you on platter by God. Its so easy. Pure Love.



Oh boy where to begin. Personally there's too many points to me that he did exist, non-christian roman historical records of Crucifixtion, the old testament and torah predictions that the savior would be crucified, phyical proofs that thousands upon thousands of crucifixtions took place only during a period of a few hundred years during which Jesus was said to exist.

Then we have somebody like Padre Pio who Jesus came to in a vision and asked him if he would like to Partake in his passion. The Priest obliged and a stigmata came upon him, wounds that smelled like roses ad never closed in the exact places where Jesus was wounded.

They may be bedtime stories and fairytales to you, but in that case your missing the transcendence hidden behind the words that can only be unlocked when one has Enlightenment. The Book is Holy and as you read it in a certain way it feeds your soul with Light eventually giving yo ENlightenment. SO of course if you approach it the way you have, you will only get out of it what you have put it, which are speculations preconceived notions having failed to unlock what is within.

Of course the Bible went through additions and removals of books. If you do your math you can learn why, but that doesnt make it any less Holy. We can both argue these points til were blue in the face, but.........

Honestly, you have already made up your mind about this. The bottom line here is to ask yourself do you have Spiritual Enlightenmetn. Do you Love all people including strangers and your enemies, do you fathom transcendence, selflessness, do you get to see behind the veil of reality, and would you be willing to sacrifice your own life for the sake of a stranger out of Love.

These are the ultimate fruits that reveal just how truthful the tree they fell from is. Everything else is nonsense and struggles unless your living Spiritually Enlightened. That my friend, is the only way I can take you serious about your path and your opinions, is if you can claim these things.

ANd I will jump ahead of myself and say that you do not have Enlightenment or any of these Spiritual faculties operating within you, because everyone who does have these, no matter the path or location in the world, always acknowledges Jesus as one of the greatest masters/teachers/saviors etc having existed and having offered a lightning path to Spiritual Freedom that still works today.

Feel free to respond

reply to post by ModernAcademia

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First of all I mean that no single book contains the essence of Hinduism. The entire catalogue of the Vedas, Gita, Upanishads, Samhitas etc must be considered.

Leaders = guru-shiksha system = basis of Hindu learning (and has been for the last 10,000 years).

Apologies on the assumption, but if you are from India then it strikes me as very odd that you would consider street dwellers (ie beggars) could be spiritually advanced. There is a big difference between a beggar and a renunciate sadhu.

All Im asking you to remember is that Hinduism is entirely open to interpretation and customisation as each person sees fit. You appeared to be engaging in absolutism by mentioning your book, your views on meat eating etc so I had to interject.

Jesus may not be a valid teacher for you, but he is for many others. Or rather he should be... if only people followed him rather than the bible. What is it that they say? The last and only Christian died on the cross...