Obama Presidency Watch/post election & first 100 days, page 8

reply to post by Keyhole

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When you factor in a lack of public financing , other regulations , lack of the likes Advertising Standards Authority to prevent misleading political ads and the length of the US political cycle it wouldn't be all that difficult for a candidate to spend a billion dollars . It wont be that much longer before the topic of 2012 Republican candidates is broached .

Cheers xpert11 .

reply to post by xpert11

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Well I am not breaching it.

I have noted that on some of the left leaning blogs and news wires they are already expressing impatience with Obama and want him to play a more prominant roll... Huffington Post had a story about Barney Frank demanding a more aggressive Obama...

Now I personally find all of this rather absurd... I mean he is after all the most high profile president elect I have ever seen and so long as there is an occupant, no matter how incompetent at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, there is so much he can do.

What does everyone think of this? I maintain that you will not see a slavishly devoted left wing world where Obama can do no wrong like we saw from the right with bush minor.

Originally posted by grover
Well I am not breaching it.

Good for you there will be plenty of time for that .

Huffington Post had a story about Barney Frank demanding a more aggressive Obama...

With the Republicans on the outer I would guess that those who were labelled anti American and traitors for opposing the invasion of Iraq are out for blood . I don't condone such actions and behaviour but having been labelled anti American myself I certainly wont feel sorry for those in question .

What does everyone think of this? I maintain that you will not see a slavishly devoted left wing world where Obama can do no wrong like we saw from the right with bush minor.

I sincerely hope that you are right . I still think that a lot of people who voted for Obama will be disappointed when the sea of change and bipartisanship fails to materialize . In 2000 Bush promised something along the lines of restoring honour and dignity to the White House need I say more ?

reply to post by semperfortis

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Grover choice of words could have been better but there is some wisdom to question why people continue to lionize someone who's policy's helped to create a situation where the Credit Crunch could take place . I respect Reagan for his ability to inspire people but I don't worship him .


My friend Don tends to get a bit carried away at times you have to forgive him for that I am sure that he didn't intend to derail the thread .

The problem is that with a few exceptions aside ( Rudy and McCain spring to mind ) the Republican party is made up of a bunch of purely idealogical driven right wing kook's. If your after proof Just look at the treatment dished out to Rudy and McCain who are both independently minded . The Republican Party is out of touch with mainstream America if I may use that term .

Now that two members of the moderate arm of the Republican Party has been defeated from all directions it is going to harder for the Republican Party to emerge out from the wildness . Look you cant look back to the past for solutions to today problems until the Republican Party grasps this fact they are going no where . The same goes for those who think that a new version of the New Deal without faith restored in credit markets will bring the US economy back to life .

reply to post by semperfortis

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I gave you a star for that Semper. In fact I have given just about everybody stars for their posts if they have conducted themselves civilly.

I suggest Semper that it is just a misunderstanding as it were.

What I said to you was

Good post Semper but remember I am trying to stay away from partisan attacks on this thread... that is why while it is open to everyone (of course) I have invited certain members to participate because I want a more balanced approach to dominate. That is why I have invited liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats and of course independents as well.

I was saying that a lot then because do I want to maintain a civil tone and lets face it old boy... you and I have had a few seriously heated exchanges in the past... and while I do respect your opinions and am pleased to call you friend... I do want to avoid heated arguments from anyone here, not just you or conservatives... the whole idea is that the election is over, time to put away the rhetoric that fuels campaigns and instead talk seriously about the who's the what's and the issues.

Does that make any sense? I hope so. There was enough piss and vinegar during the election.

I said that I don't want anyone to be rabidly partisan... not that they couldn't be partisan and i think you know what I mean.

For one I did not call conservative jack any names and I stand by that... if he takes offense at the phrase no tax crowd... really that is his problem...

... and by the way he asserted that his political viewpoints proved that he was more intelligent than I am.... I generally don't assert that I am more intelligent than anybody because I could very easily be wrong.

The subject matter of this thread is by its very nature political and open to partisanship... I have expressed my opinion about Reagan and some who think he is the best thing to happen to this country since mom and apple pie as is my right.... and I will do so again... and I expect you to express your opinion as is your right...

So perhaps for clarity's sake this is what I mean by rabid partisanship...

Posts that do nothing but attack and demonize either the subject or other posters and that contributes nothing to the conservation is rabid partisanship and as a moderator I know you know exactly what I mean.

For the most part I am thrilled by the manner in which everyone has conducted themselves and I think it has been very educational... I wish Justin Oldham would show up... but he will when he wants to. He is a prime example of the type of dialogue I want... he is by his own description conservative and Republican but his posts are generally remarkable in their even handedness and willing to give the opposition a fair hearing...

... and that is what I would like to see here.


BTW this quote:

Think about it for a moment... do you really want some of those bozos who run for president in real positions of authority?

UHH... wait a minute.

was no veiled comment... it was regarding just about ALL presidential candidates... not just Republicans or conservatives. If I was slamming bush minor, I would have done so by name.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by grover]

reply to post by grover

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For the most part I am thrilled by the manner in which everyone has conducted themselves and I think it has been very educational . . I wish Justin Oldham would show up . . but he will when he wants to. He is a prime example of the type of dialogue I want . . he is by his own description conservative and Republican but his posts are generally remarkable in their even handedness and willing to give the opposition a fair hearing . . and that is what I would like to see here.

Our new Secretary-designate of the Veterans Affairs Department. 4 star Gen. Eric Shinseky, (Ret.), apparently a man of Japanese American descent, has not only risen to the highest rank in the US Military, but now joins that very select few of American’s who have been appointed to the President’s cabinet. My guess is fewer than 500 since Thomas Jefferson was George Washington’s first Secretary of State. And Alexander Hamilton was the first Secretary of the Treasury. In my lifetime Frances Perkins was the First Secretary of Labor. I'm still hoping we abolish the department of Homeland Security. A misnomer equal to the worst of George Orwell forecasts. Too much under TOO few. It will not work except in the propaganda forum.

WARNING. I notice for the past few days that many of the electronic commentators for lack of something substantial to say, have fallen into the self-full fining prophecy that the US Government will leave ot PRINT MORE MONEY to make the Obama stimulus happen. That will NOT happen.

In economics, money supply, or money stock, is the total amount of money available in an economy at a particular point in time. There are several ways to define "money," but each includes currency in circulation and demand deposits.

Money supply data are recorded and published. Public - and private - sector analysts have long monitored changes in money supply because of its possible effects on the price level and the nominal or real value of output. That relation is historically associated with the quantity theory of money and evidence of a direct empirical relation between long-term price inflation and money-supply growth. These underlie reliance on monetary policy as a means of controlling inflation

Empirical measures. Money is used in final settlement of a debt and as a ready store of value. Its different functions are associated with different empirical measures of the money supply. Since most modern economic systems are regulated by governments through monetary policy, the supply of money is broken down into types of money based on how much of an effect monetary policy can have on each.

The different types of money are typically classified as Ms. The number of Ms usually range from M0 (narrowest) to M3 (broadest) but which Ms are actually used depends on the system. The typical layout for each of the Ms is as follows:

M0: currency (notes and coins) in circulation and in bank vaults, as well as cash (reserves) owned by banks that is held at the central bank. M0 is usually called the monetary base - the base from which other forms of money (like checking deposits, listed below) are created - and is traditionally the most liquid measure of the money supply.

M1: currency in circulation + checkable deposits (checking deposits, officially called demand deposits, and other deposits that work like checking deposits) + traveler's checks. M1 represents the assets that strictly conform to the definition of money: assets that can be used to pay for a good or service or to repay debt. Although checks linked to checking deposits are gradually becoming less popular, debit cards linked to these deposits are becoming more popular. Like checks, debit cards, as a means to complete a transaction through their links to checkable deposits, can also be considered as a form of money.

M2: M1 + savings deposits, time deposits less than $100,000 and money market deposit accounts for individuals. M2 represents money and "close substitutes" for money. M2 is a key economic indicator used to forecast inflation.

M3: M2 + large time deposits, institutional money-market funds, short-term repurchase agreements, along with other larger liquid assets. M3 is no longer measured by the US central bank.
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 12/7/2008 by donwhite]

Obama in order to save America will have to renegotiate the NAFTA and the WTO

But it seems as Obama keeps building his team that he will be following the same trend of previous president kissing to corporate America.

President-elect Barack Obama's pick for commerce secretary, Bill Richardson, got a warm welcome Thursday during a visit to Mexico, where government officials said they doubted Obama would follow through on a campaign pledge to re-negotiate NAFTA.

The New Mexico governor met with businessmen at the private University of the Americas in Cholula, a town just east of Mexico City, a day after Obama nominated him for the Cabinet post.

www.iht.com...

So much for the campaign of change.

One more scam at the expenses of American people, their jobs and their future.

Obama’s Transition Team Favors Outsourcing

So far from all the people he has been choosing most of them are part of the problem that got our nations economy where is today.

Some critics of job outsourcing worry that President-elect Barack Obama may de-emphasize his commitment to get business to stop sending jobs offshore.

Their reason: Many of the 17 members of Mr. Obama’s Transition Economic Advisory Board are leaders or directors of big companies that have a long history of moving work overseas.

blogs.wsj.com...

America by 2010 is predicted that our best pay jobs will be outsourced to a incredible percentage of 70 to 80 percent, living the nation with nothing more than low pay jobs in the service sector.

I wonder what Mr. Obama is going to do when the unemployment ranks keeps increasing, People default on everything due to having a job but no enough money to pay for their debts

Obama like previous presidents are nothing than poppets to their masters the banking system and corporate America.

reply to post by marg6043

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Hmm what can I say without going off topic ?
Obama and other American political leaders don't seem to grasp the importance of ensuring that American exporters are able to take advantage of emerging third world markets India and China mainly . Given that the US doesnt suffer from skill shortages there is no excuse for US political leaders being so far off the ball.

On the whole I'm all for free enterprise but lets get real small businesses are the real drivers of the NZ economy . Small businesses employ eighty percent of the working population and there fortunes are closely tied to how the economy is going . As for larger businesses/Corporations well the ANZ Bank is out sourcing its help desks which has contributed to the loss of nine hundred jobs last month .

So really forgot corporations until or if there is a big change in the corrupt culture that exists .

reply to post by xpert11

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Given that the US doesn’t suffer from skill shortages there is no excuse for US political leaders being so far off the ball.

We have split into two countries occupying the same geographical territory. The top 10% of the population benefit from their capital by moving it - the capital - around the planet to the place where wages and environmental laws are the weakest or exist not at all. Or if the laws do exist, where the local political leaders can be bought off so that capital can freely exploit the people and the planet without restraint.

The other 90% of the population have witnessed first hand the substantial diminution of their wages over the past 30 years, and that bad news becoming more accelerated in the last 8-10 years. Even the era under Clinton was of no use to the lower 90% because he saw the effect of globalization as inevitable and did not resist it.

American culture supports and American political leaders of both stripes with rare exceptions - FDR, HST and LBJ - have been anti labor and pro capital.

Not one American in 1000 knows that the May Day celebrations all over Europe are in honor of those people shot down by the Chicago police trying to get decent wages and working conditions. The Haymarket affair (also known as the Haymarket riot or Haymarket massacre) on Tuesday May 4, 1886, in Chicago, began as a rally in support of striking workers. An unknown person threw a bomb at police as they dispersed the public meeting. The bomb blast and ensuing gunfire resulted in the deaths of seven police officers and an unknown number of civilians. In the internationally publicized legal proceedings that followed, eight anarchists were tried for murder. Four were put to death, and one committed suicide in prison. In our schools these activists are described as criminals and anarchists. (Note: that was the popular pejorative term applied to dissenters then just as communist came to be used in the 1930s and onward).

The power in that accusation - socialist or communist - can be best exemplified by the treatment of J. Robert Oppenheimer, father of the atom bomb who in the 1950s had his security clearance removed for his communist associations in the 1930s when he was in college. I hate to bring this up but it is the Republicans who always do this. Not the Democrats.

Fewer still Americans know their own history so when I mention the great effort of William Jennings Bryan and the likewise great effort by Theodore Roosevelt, they know not of what I speak. They don’t even smile when I quote Bryan in part, “Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.” Silver being much more abundant than gold, was urged by Bryan to be made in a much higher ratio that was then the case. Needless to say, Bryan ran for president 3 times and lost all 3.

Note: The more money in circulation, the “cheaper” money is. Or the lower the interest rate would be. Those urging the gold standard are always the R&Fs - Rich and Famous - because that means less money and higher interest . This is the same underlying resistance to cheap money that runs a banner across the top of ATS alleging the FALSE claim that the Federal Reserve is a scam.

Maybe because I was born in a Jewish Hospital in my hometown I have always believed what I wrote above. I have never been a willing minion to the R&Fs. I hated them early in life and I hate them late in life.

When I remind Americans how their country STOLE Hawaii and how our country has recommended and encouraged the murder of 200,000 people in Guatemala for us to have cheap bananas, the avenge American looks at me in wonder? Wondering if I am a communist. They thinking that the USSR had was no more and I must not have opened my mail. Or that our much beloved USMC has invaded Haiti more than 6 times since the 1840s and occupied Haiti from 1918 to 1933 and yet Haiti remains the POOREST country in the Western Hemisphere. When I juxtapose those two facts Americans stare at me in wonder. “Why is he denigrating our GREAT country?”

On the whole I'm all for free enterprise but lets get real small businesses are the real drivers of the NZ economy.

That theory of economics is OK in the text books, but I know not where to find it in real life. Enterprise here is neither FREE not does it ENTERPRISE. Instead of making a better mousetrap as we were admonished to do in the 19th century, it is now the rule that competitors are either bought out or merged. And our laws again monopolies - Sherman Anti-Trust Act and Clayton Anti-trust Act are honored only in the breach.

Our business people want NO regulations, NO intervention on behalf of workers or the environment and NO restrains on what they charge. Just look how strong the ANTI Labor sense in the US Senate when the Republicans again defeated the Big 3 bailout unless the last LABOR union would betray 75 years of blood sweat and tears.

You may not believe this but until the 1933 enactment of what we call the Wagner Act, it was unlawful for workers to strike. The Republicans fought that law in 1933. They never gave up. When in 1946 they re-gained control of Congress, they passed in 1947 the Taft Hartley Act over Truman’s veto. That was the first TAKE BACK of the very little wiggle room given to labor in 1933. Republicans are still breaking unions. And they have been 95% successful. The major weapon they employ today is the shrewd use of STATES RIGHTS. But I must stop.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

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Obama have one good think in mind, to help the economy recuperate but he needs money for that, he needs to change laws, bills and policies put in place for many years and that had eroded the working opportunities for America in favor of corporate Profits.

The bail out he proposes is now at an incredible amount of almost 500 billion dollars.

One of the things on President-elect Barack Obama’s early wish list in the first few days of his administration is a huge stimulus package, reportedly in the area of $500 billion to $1 trillion dollars. According to Robert Puentes, a fellow with the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Project, the money could be a blessing or a curse, depending on how much oversight is in place to ensure that the money is being spent properly.

Obama’s stimulus package would provide the perfect opportunity for Obama to implement one of his campaign promises: Google for government. He has proposed creating a digital database that details how each and every dollar of taxpayer money is being spent and this huge infrastructure project provides ample opportunity to do so.

www.economyincrisis.org...

So if Obama doesn't change anything and still his proposed bail is approved, our nation is going to be in worst shape that already is.

reply to post by grover

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I go home tomorrow and am very slowly on the mend . . knee is mighty stiff though.. . in many countries such as Pakistan the [ruling class] separation is even more extreme [than in the US] . . if you hold any office at all [in Pakistan] you live in government owned and protected enclaves surrounded by other office holders. Yet it is better here . .

Sweet Jesus! Has it got so bad here Mr G, all you can come up with to compare the US of A, Land of the Free and Home of the Brave with is Pakistan? Pervez Musharraf was our man in Pakistan from 1999 to August 18, 2008 and a good man he was too.

But then something happened. Perhaps it was the untimely December 27, 2007, assassination of Mrs. Benazir Bhutto? The White House brain trust had apparently “blessed” her as Musharraf’‘s successor. Early in ‘08, I noticed looney-tunes Bush43 began to badmouth Musharraf in public. See Note 1.

Bush43 even threatened to conduct military ops in Pakistan without their prior knowledge or consent. How’s that for tearing down a country’s leader? Managing Pakistan is a living tightrope walk for the West. Bush43 and VP Cheney would not know that nor would either of them care. Cheney thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread and Bush43 is still talking to GOD. Condi Rice is not welcome in the Oval Office. Bush43 keeps her in the air. Hey, when you talk to GOD who needs a Secretary of State?

On September 9, 2008, the widower husband of Mrs. Bhutto, Mr. Asif Ali Zardari was sworn into the office of president. During the time his wife was Pakistan’s leader, he was known as “Mr 10%.” He was accused of taking more than $1 billion in bribes and was under indictment but that was dismissed and nothing more was done about it. Mr. Zardari seems to be trying to do a good job so far. (It was mostly American money he stole).

Pakistan is 296,000 square miles, larger than Texas. Pakistan shares a 1,500 miles long border with Afghanistan. (US and Mexico border is 1,950 miles long). Its border with India is 1,800 miles in length. 563 miles with Iran. And 325 miles with China. Pakistan has a 630 miles long shoreline on the Arabian Sea and the Indian Ocean.

Pakistan has 173 million people. 75% are Sunni, and 20% are Shia Muslims. (Based on Mr. Zardari’s middle name, Ali, I presume he is Shia). The three most numerous ethnic and linguistic groups are the Punjabi (44%), Pashtun (15%) and Sindhi (14%). Its median age is 20 years 6 months, the US is 37 years, 8 months.

GDP per person is given at $2,400. Pakistan imports 300,000 bpd of oil. Barrels per day. Pakistan is self sufficient in natural gas. The GINI index 30.5. Pakistan has 88 million cell phones. All numbers from the CIA World Factbook. www.cia.gov...

Afghanistan. About 250,000 square miles, close to the size of Texas. Population, 32 million. GDP per person, $1,000. Bereft of oil, its imports are a minuscule 5,000 barrels a day. Afghan is self sufficient in natural gas but again, at a very low level. Median age, 17 years, 7 months. Major ethnic and linguistic groups: Pashtun (42%), Tajik (27%) and Uzbek (9%). To illustrate the isolation in the mountainous country, there are 30 recognized languages spoken in Afghan. Afghan has 5.4 million cell phones.


Note 1. According to Embark President David Wheeler, the speaking fee for Musharraf would be in the $150,000-200,000 range for a day plus jet and other VIP arrangements on the ground. Embark has also booked speeches for former President George H.W. Bush and former Secretary of State Colin Powell.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 12/31/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite

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What I was trying to point out is that many countries isolate their political classes far more than we do and still the disconnect from the average Joe (not the plumber...would somebody gag that dude... his 15 minutes is up) is considerable.

It is actually one of the reasons I have come to like Obama... he spent time in the real trenches where the political decisions made in far off places like Washington or Springfield not just hit home but knock you down and kick you.

So much of the political ideas not just from the right but the left are cooked up in think tanks that have no real connect with you or me or anyone else except those who occupy those rarified positions... so they really have no clear or real idea what devestation their policies cause in the average life of the average struggling middle class and/or poor.

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