Most christians arent true christians!

Ok this has been bothering me for for-ever!

I have noticed more and more from day to day that there seem to be an increasing number of self proclaimed Christians that really don't actually believe in their own religion. This applies mostly to Christians because that's the main masses i see that do this (although i have my assumptions that other religions may be competing for this number of dis-belief subconsciously).

You may be a bit confused on what I'm trying to say. But! you can test this out for yourself. Ask a buddy (who is Christian) or yourself (if you are Christian) if they have read all of the bible and any other scripture your religion puts forth. Now, ask them/yourself if you completely agree with everything that the bible and any other scripture says in its entirety. Before you can do this you have to actually know how to read the bible, not everything can be taken as literal, and many things actually contradict themselves. If you truly believe your friend/you can read the bible and any other scripture in your religion correctly, then you may now consider that question "do i believe in this entirely".

The answer will most definitely be no, you don't believe this entirely. Whether it be that you don't think new/old world creationism exists, or that Hell/heaven exists, or even that you question gods existence all together.

The thing is that, If you don't believe in every single part of Christianity, you do not believe in Christianity, you merely pick out the pieces you want to believe in which the new testament even says you need to believe in all of this. So technically, if you do not believe in everything or even only don't believe in one small part of it then you will inevitably go to hell. This also means you are not a true Christian, you may think that a god exists and maybe even a few bits from Christianity because you heard of them and it seems as if they make sense, you are still not Christian, you are Agnostic more than anything.










And just in case anyone was wondering, I am Atheist. This is not an attack on religion or Christianity, but just an eye opening to anyone who "believes" in Christianity, but only to the extent that they want to.

All that is required to be a Christian is to acknowledge Jesus and to try and practice his teachings in your life. Everything else is moot.

The Nicene creed:

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Was the work of church leaders in the 5th century AD.

And I am not a Christian by religion, though I consider myself one by faith as I do all the other religions as well.

BTW your logic could be applied to the followers of all religions, not just Christianity.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by grover]

Which religion? Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, United, Baptist, Free evangelical, Mormon? Which one? Does it matter? Believing in Jesus is what makes you a Christian, but it doesn't necessarily make you an orthodox one. I don't like the Bible, its not a loving kind merciful decent, intelligent book. Enough said. But I do feel God's presence in Jesus. I felt that pull when I was an older child and read the Scriptures. Faith and Spirituality is a completely free thing. We can pick and chose the Spirit filled jewels out of anything and everything and leave what feels darker behind. I am a free thinking, hippy Christian who prefers to meet with God within my heart in prayer and meditation, to any creed on earth.

Christianity has nothing to do with the Christ other then to use the "Christ" as an IDOL and focus point to build a religion around. It's another nationalist symbol to rally around.

The true religion that needs be discovered is that religion of the Christ. The religion were every man, good, bad, ugly is your brother because if you want to be a son of God you need to open your hearts to the brotherhood of all men.

But then whats the point of any of this extra stuff if you only need to believe in Jesus? or that he was god/gods son?

reply to post by Ghost147


I have to agree with you Ghost, Most do not really believe what they say they believe. maybe some are new Christians and need to grow in faith. I for one am a Christian and Believe the old KJV Bible Is 100% True. Am I saying I'm perfect or that my understanding is flawless, Not by any means. Even the Bible teaches us to study and pray for understanding.......... I thank you for your post.

reply to post by rikk7111


thanks, and i do understand the main teachings of the bible , thanks for a respectful post.

Actually to me, believing in Christ is loving him and seeing the light of God within him (or for me it was a strong feeling, something I've never experienced before, a feeling in my heart of the presence of God). The other passages in the Bible didn't give me that feeling, and I quickly learnt my brain and heart would lead me in the right path if I gave them over to God and sought a personal spiritual path. I, however, do believe Jesus is more than a wise teacher, but that He is Immanuel. However, if God wishes otherwise, I'm open to suggestions, but only from the Source. Zeitgeist didn't do that, unless it was to open to me the possibility that a savior faith was universal and spread throughout the universe itself. Because I've read that Mars and Egypt were linked (Hoagland) and the thought has come to me that even our spirituality may have come from off planet to some extent. God may have a very large plan in action.

Ghost147

Great post, I agree with you 100%!!!

Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will." - Matthew 7:21



[edit on 27-11-2008 by holywar]

The same thing can be said for every major religion! thank F*** people arnt that commited to religion otherwise the world would be in a lot worse shape than it is now!
Its the small minority in every relegion that screws things up for every one else!

[edit on 27-11-2008 by Europe]

Here's my question. Are they not christian - or are they not what you believe a christian to be?

Everyone should have their own vision. And according to Jesus, they will have their own vision. Which you own vision comes you own way of understanding as it pertains to you. Thus, a personal relationship.

I have noticed 2 main types of people who often have problems with people having their own beliefs. Atheists and people who keep a literal translation of the bible(pharisees).

Atheists can't stand it when you don't keep the mainstream views. Because all their arguments are based on the ridiculous arguments of the pharisees. In which case, many times the atheist will actually argue against you with the scriptures - go figure.

To the OP, you aren't going to find something that can be designated as "TRUE" Christianity because everyone disagrees on what that means.

As a Gnostic, I think attempting to emulate and understand the spiritual makings of the world (And the disparate and myriad forms that those things take) is what Christ preached.

In my view, just like many other religions, people decided what they wanted to know and believe about Christ's teachings and ignored the actual message being conveyed.

Likewise, most Atheists tend to ignore arguments for the sake of their own belief (Atheism is a belief in that it believes in nothing beyond the observable for one form of Atheism), while ignoring that human knowledge concerning the universe is likely infinitesimally small on the scale of percentages.

It is the danger as proposed by Socrates, of knowing rather than understanding. Knowing is a human condition, a drive to have a concrete reality that you can be master of.

The problem is, no human can Know anything. We can only understand.

I'll bite. This thread is so far respectful, so perhaps posting this will sooth my ire at a few other threads that do not have such a record.

I have read the entire Bible. Not all at once, but over the years. There are a great many things I do not understand, and some of it I have probably forgotten over time.

I do believe in the entire Bible is true, with the following caveat: I believe it is true in the context under which it was written and according to the original texts it was written in. An example: in one verse that KJV states "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Now, for years I had assumed that it meant "You should kill a witch." What else could such a thing mean? I had my doubts about that translation, and I finally decided one day to search it out.

If one goes back to the original Hebrew tongue, which the Bible was written in, the literal translation is quite different: "You shall not help a prophet to profit." Well, duh! If someone is a prophet, why would they need financial help from the people who were not prophets? That's an easy way to ferret out true prophets from phonies; true prophets are not begging for money, false ones are.

As it is with every single time I have questioned the meaning of a verse that did not immediately make sense to me. It didn't make sense because I was misreading it, either through poor interpretation of the Hebrew, or through a lack of knowledge about the cultural references it contained.

All of the wars that the OT speaks of were either started by other tribes against Israel, or there was another reason for them that we (meaning I and anyone else who doesn't understand why) still have not discovered. The stonings and punishments that to us sound so severe and cruel were in fact a cultural thing, not really so different than the guillotine in France a couple centuries ago, or the recent Arabic practice of cutting a thief's hand off..

The Bible does not tell us to stone gay men, either (yeah, I know, this thread is not about that, but it just seems to be on everyone's mind right now). It tells the Hebrew tribe to stone gays. Why? I really don't know, but I know it was not because 'God's anger' over their actions. That doesn't make sense when compared to everything else in the book. There may well be a reason for this besides the fact they were gay; this is something I am looking into as I have time, that was suggested to me by another member in another thread some time ago.

So while I say yes, I do believe the Bible is true, and I do believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, that does not mean I agree with every teaching of every church that happens to have an interpretation. I prefer to think things through for myself, with the prayer and study that the Bible itself acknowledges is needed for proper understanding.

OK, everyone tell me what a low-life that makes me.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I do believe in the entire Bible is true, with the following caveat: I believe it is true in the context under which it was written and according to the original texts it was written in.

EXCELLENT!!! A star for you.

AND that is true of any religious text from another time or another language or culture... be it the Bible... the Quran or the Upansiads etc.

The main and most important message Jesus brought was one of selfless love, which included turning the other cheek, and judging not, unless you wish to be judged. He gave his life on the cross for us, and demonstrated leaving behind materialistic concerns, and greed, corruption and abuses of power. He was the firefighter risking his life to save the baby, or anyone giving from their need to help another who is going through hardship. When a person chooses to be listen to another, rather than argue or judge them, to help, to set aside ideologies to accept other people, and work in whatever way they are able or inspired, to free others to be themselves and share, they are being His hands. He is the opposite of everything our governments and corperations stand for. He is the light, the truth and the way.
And to me, organized religion is a corruption of the real message, as is most of the Bible.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 27-11-2008 by mystiq]

It can be argued this way... the teachings of the Rig Vedas and early parts of the Bible (Old Testament) salvation or grace was achieved through ritual observance... later parts of the Bible and the Upanisads salvation or grace became a more a matter of individual observance and faith.

With Christianity grace was achieved through individual faith and charity with a focus on renunciation.

With Islam grace is achieved through faith and charity and community and if any of those are missing, especially community grace cannot be achieved because more than anything Islam is a faith based on communitarian ideals which is what makes the extremists so appealing to some. They try at least in their rhetoric to return to that ideal.

Just stumbled upon this:

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

www.evilbible.com...

Being a person of faith has less to do with what church or ideology you adhere to as opposed to what is in your heart.

Without compassion we are no better than our prejudices.

reply to post by grover

With Christianity grace was achieved through individual faith and charity with a focus on renunciation.

A star right back. That is exactly how I see things as well.

I often wonder about they 'why' on that point... but I'm sure I'll understand it someday.

TheRedneck

Yea Europe

" thank F*** "

people aren't religious as they should be, thank God people aren't told to love their enemies, and thank God christians go around having one night stand and destroying marriages.

Yea thank God.

sarcasm aside, If people really did listen to the true teachings of Christ, this world wouldn't know violence ever.

thank God, or let me say, I hope God there will be a day one day where everybody believe everything Christ taught.

and btw OP.

I always see on the net, that lust or people believe in christianity to the extent of their lustful desires.

meaning you tell a worldy christian woman that dressing sexy is wrong, and they completely deny Christ because it goes against their lifesatyles.

they believe what they want to.

peace.

I don't see the value in judging others. Just follow Christ as best you are able, accept him as your savior and let God decide....Jesus died for the sinners not the righteous....we ALL fall short....