Sorry I can't do that, the system is automatic.

I got a bill fron a school telling me I had to pay 1 dollar (converted to us currency). Laughable as it was I went to pay it. Cost me $2 in fees. They paid more for stamps during the whole process. But a month later I got the same bill again mentioning I can pay it in 4 rates. Now imagine that on a financial statement. I wrote them and told them I paid. A month later they threatened me with legal action. I sent them the bank statement of payment. A month later the collector came. He cost me $50. He mentioned there is nothing he can do. He's just doing his job. If I don't pay the 1$ plus $50, I get fined even more.
I realize behind all this is a stupid computer, printing out statements which nobody checks. If there was one person to prevent such stupidity, then...well, I figured they do that they check that this happens so they can pay him...lol. Anyway. Did I tell you I called them in between and asked if I could pay it off with a 12 monthly installements. Anyway, I did end up writting a nice letter about this school and sent a copy to them and the local paper. I got my money back. $51. And they got a free add. Well, if you can call bad publicity a free add.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by Benarius]

Been there, done that! I know anyone who has contacted a major company to request information or make a complaint has started to realise that major corporations are shifting ALL information service to the Pacific Rim countries and most of them are in India! Well, I have read that the backlash of not being able to understand or get any satisfaction from the calls has elicited a response from these companies. They are now teaching these folks to speak with a southern or western accent to try to fool the public into believeing they have 'FIXED'the problem. You think your speaking to a US respondent, your happy that you might get some cooperation . and what happens...you get the same illogical reponses but you feel better about it! Isn't it wonderfull how corporations use their psychological Employee Resources to try to fool you rather than FIX the damned problem???


Zindo

There's a new business model for handling customer service and collections and it's not customer oriented, but call oriented. The idea is to get you off the phone as quickly as possible.

You may notice a "pre-screening" process where some low-level rep asks you a bunch of questions and then forwards your call. Don't give out any detailed information to this individual as some companies use prisoners to perform routine tasks (usually a recording will warn you to not give out anything more than your account number). Psuedo government organizations like utility companies often use prison labor.

Reps are rated or graded on how well they handle your issue, so if you ask to speak to a supervisor, they have "failed" that call. That is why you can no longer get a real supervisor on the phone. If you press the issue, you'll find more and more reps will just "accidentally disconnect" the call rather than have it affect their grade. Nothing about your problem will be added to the record.

If you suspect this has happened, a good trick is to call back and say, "Yes, I was talking to Suzie, she was transferring me to a Supervisor, but the call was disconnected." Sometimes that works because the new rep doesn't have to accept the call and lose the grade since Suzie logged into the account.

If you are dealing with a bigger organization, write down their name, and their employee number and the date of the call. Even if they automatically recite this information at the beginning, ask them to repeat it. It puts them on notice that you are logging information about the call.

I also ask them to update the record while I'm on the phone. If they say they will do it and then don't, it's grounds for dismissal.

I find asking who the manager of the customer service department and their mailing address or fax number is particularly helpful. After I get this information, I tell the rep that if the situation isn't handled I'll be writing the supervisor. This also stops the dropped calls above. Just fax the letter, and someone has to deal with it, plus it becomes part of the record, not just whatever the rep types into the account. This is also key if the situation escalates and you have to dispute it.

The third suggestion I have is to use an American Express card to pay your bills. The reason for this is that you get points, it is interest free, and when you do have a problem, they will go to bat for you and handle the dispute. Your debit card will not. Assuming you always pay your bill on time, and you use it every month, Amex requires the company substantiate the bill before you pay it. I have NEVER had to pay a disputed bill yet. Ever. So the onus of putting together all that paperwork falls on the company, not you.

Customer service has gone global and is now dead. The US used to be known for being outstanding in this area, the rest of the world is not. Now that it's one big fuster cluck, you can expect it to only get worse.

"I want to devise a virus, to bring dire straights to your environment.
Crush the corporations with a mild touch.
Crash your whole computer system and revert you to papyrus." -Deltron 3030

A massive team of white hat hackers changing these systems to either 'automatically' remain on at all times or to crash all these systems forcing humans to treat humans like humans and not like money trees in winter.

Take this example to show how f'd this 'sorry i cant do anything about it' system of lies is(cuz it is lies):
I had a friend who was a bank teller for a long time, he would 'disappear' my overdraft fees for me whenever i had them. Other people i know who didn't have a friend in banking often had 1 or no overdraft fees removed.
Simply because i knew someone! the 'sorry theres nothing i can do' automatic inhuman system was diverted.

I've always found that hard in life, that as long as you know someone in the company you struggle to pay for whatever reason or the bouncer at a club, YOUR IN so to speak.
And if we could all see each other as humans and in need and let EVERYONE IN.....

the "THEY" automatically lose and WE can shut their system down causing them to pay the price.

Its that horrible 'friends in high places' mentality that gives the well off, the discount, the hookup, or the additional week to pay while the poor get the 'sorry nothing i can do' EVERY TIME! its sick

Originally posted by VelmaLu
write down their name, and their employee number and the date of the call. Even if they automatically recite this information at the beginning, ask them to repeat it. It puts them on notice that you are logging information about the call.
.

Actually I tried this, the person spoke her name so fast I could never understand it, after asking her to spell it she became angry and refused.

Never did get her name.

In the end I found out they do not use their real names anyway (according to the manager I eventually spoke with), and that the employees are not required to assist in understanding the name given.

I obviously live in a sucky area.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


I've noticed a very small number od company's have returned to the "human" element. Gee! How "old fashioned". That's where I take my businrss whenever possible. I'm so tired if the corporate "boardroom" mentality and the dedication to te bottom line for each quarter etc.

This is another symptom of globalization and corporation.

When you had a high street with independent businesses and local smaller companies you knew who you were dealing with, and those people could empathize with your situation.
And most of the time they were happy to because it meant they'd keep you as a customer and they knew you'd be able to pay it.

Now, there is no person to know, it's all a machine and its sole purpose is to make money. It doesn't care if you are struggling, and it doesn't know that you'll certainly be able to make the payment next week/month, it only cares that you haven't made the payment so service cannot continue.

I don't think it will ever change unless there is a global catastrophe, simply because people are dumb in their masses and don't see that supporting BIG business instead of smaller, local ones, will damage every society in the long run, until we are all buying everything from one global corporation.

Yup this happends to me as well...ive been behind my phone bill many times by months and ill receive letters with warning of my phone being cut off but it never happends, ive been behind for about 3 months at a time and never nothing....but i do agree that people are sometimes depending too much on these electronics.....for example my boyfriend never seems to remember how to get to any place because his always depending on his stupid gps...i mean i know its good to have it at times but for simple directions ppl become dependents of these things

no mate. i work in a call centre. and actually the employees are being honest.

those on the end of the telephone are completely limited by a system in most cases, and as much as they would like to help. IT is automated.

it is true. basically a computer system that has been designed controls everything like gas and electricity. and they have millions of customers, hence they need to have a system that is the same for all people.

The people u speak to like me in the case of my job, have as i say little or no control, and as much as they owuld like to help. often cant.

society is becoming automated, thats why people are losing their jobs to machines as they can do the job more effectively. a whole team of men who used to make a car is now covered by an automated plant overlooked by one man.

It is the way it is. And yes, sorry the system is automatic.

nothing personal to you mate, its the system, it isnt a cop out of the individual or the company, its because in todays tough and profit orientated clmate, basically, people, if they dont give you any money, are worthless.

That is the way business works, and as the hopi indians so eloquently point out, that is why the world is failing miserably; the world works on increased in profit, not an increase in kindness and consideration, for the world, and the beings that inhabit it.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This is another symptom of globalization and corporation.

When you had a high street with independent businesses and local smaller companies you knew who you were dealing with, and those people could empathize with your situation.
And most of the time they were happy to because it meant they'd keep you as a customer and they knew you'd be able to pay it.

Now, there is no person to know, it's all a machine and its sole purpose is to make money. It doesn't care if you are struggling, and it doesn't know that you'll certainly be able to make the payment next week/month, it only cares that you haven't made the payment so service cannot continue.

I don't think it will ever change unless there is a global catastrophe, simply because people are dumb in their masses and don't see that supporting BIG business instead of smaller, local ones, will damage every society in the long run, until we are all buying everything from one global corporation.

we are already buying everything from one global corporation arent we though?

All corporations are controlled by a small group of people, but the sub sectors just have different names bro.

EG, coke own dasani, BT own talk talk and O2. GM own many other car manufacturers. and all of them are controlled within reason, by one group of people. at the top of the pyramid.

isnt that the case?

Excellent point about large companies.

I lived in a small town, with a branch office of Wells Fargo. The bank was in the process of being sold to a smaller company, and I needed a car loan for a used car.

The bank manager called the new president and vouched for me. The new bank president personally guaranteed my loan without knowing me and technically, I was not even his customer.

The bank manager called the leasing company, said they had a personal guarantee on the loan, so they simply gave me the car and I never signed any paperwork. I assume the bank sent them a check.

Try that anywhere else. That same branch manager had given me cash when the computers were down. Just opened the drawer and gave me $100 and made a note of it.

When I moved, I set up all my accounts with another branch of that bank and have received the same level of service. That's not to say I haven't had problems with the bank, but I have a personal banker who actually seems to care about helping me.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by VelmaLu]

reply to post by s0ndernet


your friend would lose his job if his bank found out.

And mate, it is not the same. have you ever worked on a system format job?

things have changed. also if someone was to risk their job to try to help out anyone, this would be disasterous, perhaps doign it for one mate you can get away with. But waiving fees and procedures on all who ask, WILL get you fired, and then they will still have to pay and get service cut off.

I find it slightly offensive that you say the "sorry cant do anything" is lies. cos i can tell you first damn hand mate, its not.

Il give you an example.

I work on a system, selling BT broadband renewals and BT vision.

Now i rang a women offering her a reduction, she said, no, i want a reduction, AND a free phone, I told her, Im sorry I cant do that etc.

she spent a good few mins trying to persuade me, so i reiterated that it was not actually possible for me to do that, or help her out. Thing i was lieing? well no i wasnt. and il tell you why. BECAUSE OF MY SYSTEM. there was NO OPTION to select to send her a free phone, none at all. I was also subcontracted by BT, and worked for a call centre company, so had absolutely no power to do anything.

so I was telling the truth.

NOW before you go accusing of all employees who work via systems of lieing "and trust me it is lies " get your facts straight.

like some intelligent posters have suggested, that actually it is now the system and teh ruthless machine who doesnt care about people, just their money, who controls us. and small low rank employess, no matter how much they care for people, and trust me many do, I do. Can do little but do the best job possible. That does not mean they can always help people out. But they can do their job in as empathetic a manner as possible, and do as much as they CAN. NOT they want.

so know you no, you were talking ignorance.

deny it?

I've also worked for the #1 leader in "out sourcing" Conv.... enh nevermind no one needs to know their name

I worked in the tech department for a certain large ISP in the United States.

The system is not as automated as they would have you believe...
like someone else stated earlier, the truth is, the peons on the floor don't have authority to do anything monetary, our project (before I left) had just been given permission to refund up to $50.00 anything more than that would require our lead services approval, (your call would be directed to a "supervisor") who is just like the agents, just sitting at a different computer, helping fellow employees.

Half the time they rotate positions and work as both an agent and lead services, half the time I was more knowledgeable than the lead services, I usually handled everything myself unless the person on the phone was a complete jerk.

I technically could have refunded millions of dollars, but everything is monitored and they'll trace it back to you, sue you, fire you, or eat your liver with some Fava beans.

If we don't do something these LARGE companies are going to change things for the worse, never-mind the government; the government get donations and campaign gifts from these corporations.

Computers have the power to change things for the positive, as well as the negative.
If it's done for money, it's definitely going to be negative
If it's done for people, it'll definitely be a lot more humane and easier to work with these companies/corporations as a client.

I agree computers have stream-lined things and made a lot of things better, but we have to (as customers) make sure that we are not being taken advantage of, and that we are treated as people, not a number and not as revenue.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


COMPUTER SAYS NO

[edit on 25-11-2008 by moocowman]

I had a credit card company once charge a fee in the middle of a billing cycle that put me over limit prior to receiving the bill for it. They included a 38 or so dollar charge for over limit fee.

When I got the bill, I couldn't believe that they would sneak in a fee like that without an invoice, so It was like getting stabbed in the back.

This also was invoiced at the end of November.

I went to their online site and wrote an email describing how I felt and then added that when my daughter opened her empty box for christmas a christmas present that I would have the creditor to thank and used words and phrases such as "Mafia-like" and dispicable, and ruthless business practises", and so on.

To my utter amazement, They credited the overlimit fee.

Maybe the authorisor of fee reversals thought of their kids or that it was a sneaky manuever indeed.

I have a few other good ones off topic here involving Utilities, Phone adverts. and the State Commissioner, whom I had contacted when I couldn't seem to get anywhere with the providers reps...

Nothing is out of the question when it comes to greed and incompetency.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


TRUE STORY:

I have a loan with "CITIFINANCIAL."

Ironic, huh? This was two weeks prior to the government take-over of CITIFINANCIAL (Today is 11/25/08)

Anyway, I call them up to tell them that I'm going to be late - I live in Michigan, U. S. ... 'nuff said?!?! - and I explain that it's because my furnace broke, and it cost me $200.00 to get it diagnosed.

She OFFERED me an extension!

I didn't even KNOW what an extension was, prior to this phone-call!

Well, I got an extension, and I paid my other bills.

I'm not saying that everything is peaches and cream, but I know that I was treated well, educated, and informed. ALL by a thick Indian Accent.

Maybe Indians are like everybody else!

Some know their Posterior Orifice from a hole-in-the-ground, and some don't.

SongOfTheDaffodil

In my personal experience - if you get any response you are unsatisfied with - DEMAND you speak with their superior. ALWAYS works ;o)

reply to post by moocowman


This is one of my favourite LB sketches, and sadly so very true.

reply to post by predisposed


You've jumped to some huge conclusions based on what i've said and i think you confused my point so here goes.

When i say people are lying, that statement is obviously not meant to include cases when they are not, cases where people personally cannot do anything like in your example where you CANNOT give them a new phone because the machine limits you.

And you are right people can lose their jobs(i know people who have) for being reasonable and helping others in need when the machine said NO.

My point or 2 cents on this matter was NOT to continue a limited discussion on computers saying NO or giving NO OPTION and let this thread die.
It was to say that the people are capable of changing that and i listed 2 ways:
1. Hackers when the system allows no options
2. Friends when the machine does allow options
Since i dont have any experience with hackers changing the system for me but i do have friends who have i will go on to argue or explain that:

Friends usually help friends (and only friends when the help is at a risk of losing their job.) AND ANYONE who has a job where they can help/waive/delay payments only do so for a limited group of people as allowed by their employer. So don't tell me its not a LIE to tell a stranger 'sorry theres nothing i can do' when the answer to their friend was 'sure give me a sec'.

When a bouncer lets a fine looking woman cut her way into a club over some ugly woman already in line, it is a LIE to say he cannot let her in too(or instead.)
The bottom line is if he lets in too many people he might lose his job so he gets to make the decision and he makes the decision that benefits him.
1. He keeps his job.
2. He could get some(thing) from the fine woman

Just like the bank teller, he decides who gets waived and who doesn't(when there is no machine to limit that) and he makes the decision that benefits himself.
Obviously if my friend waived me a 30 dollar overdraft fee, i'm buying lunch.
But if he waives a strangers fee, he gets a simple 'thanks' from them OR a 'thanks' from his employer who is glad to see he has made the company money.
Both of which mean nothing to him, just as the ugly woman means nothing to the bouncer, she is just another person in line.
The atrocity of the bank teller example is that the bank doesn't NEED or deserve the money they take from an overdraft fee. Its pure profit.

I've had 9 overdrafts fees waived this year, how many of you have had that many waived in their entire life!? Its wrong is it not? This is the injustice that lobbyists and corporations and dirty politicians are committing without ceasing because they have 'bank tellers' and 'bouncers' as friends, EVERYWHERE!

A bank teller CAN waive fees as they see fit, TO A LIMIT without losing their job. My friend did this but he was also capable of telling people NO when that limit was NOT yet reached.
He chose to expend his giving of fee waivers to himself and his friends. But he told strangers, whom he may have been able to waive a fee for, that he COULD NOT. Why couldn't he?
...well he LIED (to protect his job), he COULD HAVE waived it, he could even ask his manager to waive it but he chose to secure his job by only risking it on friends.
This goes on everyday, pardons are made for friends not strangers. And we are only alloted so many pardons in any given field.
Take relationships for example we allow only so many pardons, a friend/partner who treats you bad once is pardoned, twice maybe, whatever, AT SOME POINT the answer from the Person AND their Machine(mind) is resoundingly CANNOT/NO/OPTIONLESS you are no longer eligible to have your fees waived and you will have to wait in line at the club.

Does what i have just written make sense?

[edit sentence structure]

[edit on 25-11-2008 by s0ndernet]

reply to post by detachedindividual

detachedindividual i loved what you wrote and i wanted to erase most of the words to show the underlying message i saw, check it:

This is another symptom of globalization and corporation.
...it's all a machine and its sole purpose is to make money.
...until we are all buying everything from one global corporation.
...you haven't made the payment so service cannot continue.

(im not trying to misquote you or put words in your mouth. peace.)