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Founding Fathers - Christians?

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posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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by Steven Morris, in Free Inquiry, Fall, 1995 The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians

"The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity."

This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments.

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
From:
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)

George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
From:
George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)

Read the rest at the link provided above.

Note: The copy and pasting of entire articles is strictly prohibited at and within ATS, hence the edit.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by Seekerof]




posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 01:27 AM
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You are correct sir,
I have read this before on several freethought sites. I have some tee-shirts with founding father quotes on them. Its funny when a christian notices them, hell its funny when a christian notices anything.
They have been lied to by their parents and clergy for so long a real quote is hard for them to understand. They are always looking around the truth trying to find an interpretation.
Lets say for fun there really was a pearly gate, could you imagine what the cost of a ticket on the bleachers would go for.Priceless.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 01:45 AM
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Thanks for your affirmation Ashley.

What I particularly like about Steve Morris' quotes is that they're from historical references.

BTW, I'd like to get some of those t-shirts, where did you find them?



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 02:00 AM
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Aeon,
check' individuals for freethought' or just do a search on freethought. You should find something.

Oh yeah,check out 'free world trading' or 'free world trading company'

I think one of those should work.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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thank you for this excellent post. I have been on different discussion boards where a select group have been rabid in their insistance that the United States was founded upon a "christian" foundation by "christian" men.

I have seen several of these debates become really nasty, and progress in short order to personal attacks.


I wonder if it is possible that the people who are guilty of bashing, and resorting to the "you-will-go-to-he**-if-you-don't-believe-as-we-do" behavior, actually demonstrate an insecurity in their OWN belief system. Maybe they are trying to prove they are right, because deep in their heart, they have their own doubts.

I have not spent a lot of time here at ATS, (though I plan on in the future), but at other sites, I have seen this type of debate get totally out of control.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:21 PM
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Well Thomas Paine was a genius, wonderful writer. His work entitled "The Rights of Man" is a seriously challenged piece of writing, check it out.

But you're very right, alot of non-Christians do yell and moan about this quite often. They say the Pledge of Allegience makes Americans pledge allegience to a Christian God and that our founding fathers were evil. news flash...the clause "under God" was added in the 60's or 70's, not part of the original pledge. Go thank the hippies.

That sounded like an attack on the hippies...but it wasn't. People call me a hippie alot...even though I'm not, but whateva.

Times have changed my friends. Our founding fathers are not the men they once were. Faggot doesn't mean faggot anymore, republicans are actually democrats and vice versa, and we use the good old mail service maybe twice a year.

Paul Revere would be completely absolete and George Washington would've been nuked.

Times have changed. So lets study the past, but quit dwelling on it. Change something.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:34 PM
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you know......let's say the "Founding Fathers" WERE Christians (which they were not, they were dietiests)



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:39 PM
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excellent thread. Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and George Bush would do themselves a great service if they actually read the founding father's writings on religion and politics.

IIRC, Jefferson actually wrote "Beware of the Jesuits." (someone correct me if I am wrong)

The founding fathers worked hard to keep a seperation of church and state. THe one common ground that all religious groups in this country have is that they can worship however they want without fear or prosecution.
They should remember that when they are trying to influence American policies.

Empty Plastic Bag, the GOD part of the pledge I believe was added in the 50's to thwart communists. The hippies had nothing to do with it.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:40 PM
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thank you FaceFirst.....


you said it well.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by Facefirst

Empty Plastic Bag, the GOD part of the pledge I believe was added in the 50's to thwart communists. The hippies had nothing to do with it.


Well bollocks to me then! My bad, thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I have this vision of someone telling me it was the hippies when we were driving through McDonalds getting a McFlurry......

but anyway, the point remains, it wasn't included by the Founding Fathers.
but thanks for the clearup



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by EmptyPlasticBag[/i

Well bollocks to me then! My bad, thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I have this vision of someone telling me it was the hippies when we were driving through McDonalds getting a McFlurry......


I have not laughed so hard in a while. Everytime I hear the word "hippies," I think of "Cartman" on Southpark! McFlurry.....


Ladyspirit, thanks for the kind words.



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 10:59 PM
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EmptyPlasticBag-

I thought it was the "Godless Hippies" that turned our country over to satan with their "Age of Aquariaus" and free love behavior



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:01 PM
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no problem FaceFirst:

by the way, I am a BIG fan of Southpark.

--->I can hear Cartman now saying: "You will respect my authority".



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by ladyspiritguide
no problem FaceFirst:

by the way, I am a BIG fan of Southpark.

--->I can hear Cartman now saying: "You will respect my authority".



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:12 PM
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yeah, he would!



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:26 PM
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Alas, I have successfully transformed a intellectual and beautifully researched thread into a discussion about Cartman and South Park.

But I have a way of doing that..I mean...look at my signature.


But seriously now...Aeon- do you know what good old Albert also said?
"Gravitation cannot be held responsible for two people falling in love."

He was such an emo kid.....I swear.


[Edited on 2-4-2004 by EmptyPlasticBag]



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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The Southpark writers are simply exercising their right to free speech.

Thank god!(in a non-offensive, non interferring with state kind of way



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by EmptyPlasticBag
Alas, I have successfully transformed a intellectual and beautifully researched thread into a discussion about Cartman and South Park. Ahh....the wonders of words huh?





Yes you have. You brought up the stinky hippies!


Now back to theology and seperation of state, but feel free to interject Cartman at anytime!
It makes for better conversation.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by Facefirst]



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:44 PM
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it is a well written & intelligent post. I apologize for the "re-direct".



posted on Apr, 2 2004 @ 11:50 PM
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I think this post should go to the top of the political forums and stay there for a while. It would be a great reference against those who continue to claim what this country was founded on...just my opinion...



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