Founding Fathers - Christians?, page 3

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reply posted on 6-4-2004 @ 08:48 AM by SpittinCobra

Originally posted by Tassadar

>Isaiah 33:22
For the Lord is our judge,
The Lord is our lawgiver,
The Lord is our King...

Judicial, Legislative, and Executive branches defined around 600BC, before Democracy was even considered by the French or any others...
Cheers,
- Tass

It may be older than dirt, Its still a form of control. We say God said it, it must be right.

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by SpittinCobra]

reply posted on 6-4-2004 @ 09:22 AM by TruthStrgnrThanFiction

American presidents have all been masons except one : JFK.

America is the new atlantis for the masons. The seat and ruling country of the coming NWO.

USA is Queen Amongst the Nations, read Jeremiah about her coming destruction...its no joke, that the prophet spoke of the daughter of babylon which is the states, all wealth and power flows from USA. Hammer of the nations for sure as she is most powerful military entity in the world. Even the name America is a female name, acquainting her with the Queen of the nations from OT and Whore of Babylon from NT.

Masons worship Satan...Masonary is a system of deceit ..low level masons have no idea..and it takes years until you are totally deceived enough to reach the realisation about who or what you are worshipping, namely Lucifer/ Satan the Devil. Read Albeit Pikes books on Lucifer....thats who masons worship.

So USA founded , setup and controlled by Agent of Satan, created to be the mightiest nations..one so powerful it is blinded by pride ...thinks it will never suffer etc.

Well all the above is what I have found regarding the mason and USA link....if it is true then Americas future is not rosey.

Of course I could be wrong

reply posted on 6-4-2004 @ 09:54 AM by Saphronia

I guess I will be the first to say that it doesn't matter. Our laws whether they be founded on Christian beliefs or otherwise prevent fundamentalist from oppressing and subjecting others to their "absolute truth".

I think its clear that this is what the founders wanted, but when you are deal with fundamentalism there is little you can say to break their stubborn spirit. You can tell them the there is no mention of God in the constitution but they won't acknowledge that fact.

The bottom line, in a free society you can't tell people how to live. Every fundamentalist movement leads to oppression, and oppression is not a Christian concept. Anyone who attempts to oppress people or take away their free will to live and make their own decisions about who they want to serve and how they want to serve is corrupting the message of Christ. He never forced folk to listen or follow him. Christians are taught that his blood paid for our choice.

Religion and government are both corrupt institutions-nobody wants them to go hand in hand because every time they do, it leads to mass murder and genocide.

reply posted on 9-4-2004 @ 05:02 PM by Beanie_pianoforte

The founding fathers were christians kicked out of Britain because they were being persecuted because of their extreme puritan views. At the time Britain was changing from catholic to protestant. They moved to the americas to get away and start a new where no-one could persecute them because of their beliefs.

reply posted on 15-4-2004 @ 10:16 PM by Aeon10101110

Originally posted by TruthStrgnrThanFiction
American presidents have all been masons except one : JFK.

America is the new atlantis for the masons. The seat and ruling country of the coming NWO.
...
Of course I could be wrong

Hmmm, the latter point I may concede

As to Masonic presidents, I think there was a total of sixteen. But otherwise, it appears conspiritorial that the religious Right is perpetuating a myth. By their own writings, the founding fathers disdained Christian myths. Especially vehement among them was Thomas Paine, though Thomas Jefferson, et al. expressed extreme misgivings about the Christianity: Founding Fathers' Faith

Flying in the face of popular misconceptions, most U.S. founding fathers were free of any type of sectarianism. While they were politicians and sometimes offered religious platitudes in public speeches, such discourse belied extensive private correspondence. Certainly, many valued the morality instilled by religion. Clearly however, separation of State from Church was a primary concern to them. Because the Church of England caused manifold grief among colonists and the Puritans of Massachusetts unleashed tyrannical atrocities (in civil courts), the authority of churches needed limitation. But currently, there is national sentiment contrary to the intentions of those who framed our Constitution and institutions. In the interest of all free Americans, evidence is volumnious that our nation's progenitors exercised unencumbered religious thought with impunity. Indeed, the truth is freeing and all of America needs to know the true story.

reply posted on 15-4-2004 @ 11:55 PM by Aeon10101110

Expressing virulient disbelief in scripture, Thomas Paine detailed the predominant faith of the cogniscenti of his day - Deism. One example is from his essay, "Biblical Blasphemy," as in the following exerpt:

"Deism teaches us that God is a God of truth and justice. Does the Bible teach the same doctrine? It does not.

"The Bible says (Jeremiah xx, 7) that God is a deceiver. 'O Lord (says Jeremiah) thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed.'

"Jeremiah not only upbraids God with deceiving him, but, in iv, 10, he upbraids God with deceiving the people of Jerusalem. 'Ah! Lord God (says he), surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ye shall have peace, whereas the sword reacheth unto the soul.'

"In xv, 18, the Bible becomes more impudent, and calls God in plain language, a liar. 'Wilt thou (says Jeremiah to God) be altogether unto me as a liar and as waters that fail?'

"Ezekiel xiv, 9, makes God to say - 'If the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.' All this is downright blasphemy."

Mr. Paine's correspondence was extensive and he was unapologetic for his views. Simply put, he expressed common opinions of the time, of which few were offended. After experiencing an NDE, his letter to a friend relented not in fervor against the Bible: "The Christian religion is derogatory to the Creator in all its articles. It puts the Creator in an inferior point of view, and places the Christian devil above Him. It is he, according to the absurd story in Genesis, that outwits the Creator in the Garden of Eden, and steals from Him His favorite creature, man, and at last obliges Him to beget a son, and put that son to death, to get man back again; and this the priests of the Christian religion call redemption."

Thomas Paine was a celebrated patriot, materially and psychologically aiding the cause of the Revolution. And indeed, his writings and correspondence were well-received in the nascent nation, even by his friend, President Washington. Another friend, Samuel Adams, did find fault in the publication of certain material due to concerns for consensus-building among citizens. However, Mr. Paine deftly defended his position during their correspondence.

The precepts of Deism are quite natural, concepts without the need for interpretation or convoluted explanations. Adherents to the faith are many spanning the ages, moreover, they include the greatest thinkers of all time. Especially notable are those counted among the Founding Fathers of the United States of America.

reply posted on 26-4-2004 @ 11:41 PM by Aeon10101110

I was brought up as a good little WASP and touted Chistianity through to my years serving as a deacon in The First Presbyterian Church. However, the derisive back-biting, gossip and mere doctrinal parlays was nauseating. Thereafter, further experience with the ignorance of self-proclaimed scriptural "experts" was my cause to question the Bible. Finally, I found the dubious veracity of many biblical narratives and questioned the motives of the priest-class that perpetuated only those stories fitting to specific political aspersions.

All the while, I felt that such thoughts must be inherently evil, due to my education. Then I found the writings of Thomas Paine, a celebrated American patriot. While allowing his essays to represent themselves, I then also found that many Founding Fathers also eschewed Christianity. While certainly they fostered the morality engendered by it and in public praised it, private correspondence belied such overtures.

I would like to believe in a God like Jesus, but many of his followers' actions are enough to turn anyone away by their example. Moreover, the simple message of love, forgiveness and healing is now convoluted by centuries of political manipulation. As Thomas Jefferson wrote, "The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
From:
"Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History," by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and "Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim," by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

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