Another Clintonista Joins the Club

reply to post by jjkenobi


Is it change from the Bush Administration?

If so, that's what most of us voted for.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


But, it isn't a change on how things are done or who is doing them....except in party affiliation.

I don't think THAT is what most people thought they were voting for.



[edit on 11/19/2008 by skeptic1]

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
Is it change from the Bush Administration?
If so, that's what most of us voted for.

Obama ran on change from the way Washington did things.
ALL of washington - Dems and republicans.
Clintons and Bushes and Carter and Reagan ...
Change from lobbyists and corruption and old style politics.

It was not mearly change from the Bush administration.

Hillary could have done that. Richardson could do it even better.

It was change of all of it - not just Bush 43.

To claim it was change from just Bush43 is plain wrong and making excuses for 'The One' and his obvious lie of 'change'.

Originally posted by Irish M1ck
reply to post by jjkenobi

 

Is it change from the Bush Administration?

If so, that's what most of us voted for.

If that is all that you care about, then why bother to vote. Bush is done. Change in administration was inevitable either McCain or Barry. Before anyone starts, please spare the Bush - McCain analogy.

Originally posted by skeptic1
But, it isn't a change on how things are done or who is doing them....except in party affiliation.

How do you know? God, I'm glad I don't work for you people. You would expect all kind of results before I even started the job! Obama doesn't start for 2 months. He's just collecting tools for the job. The presidential cabinet contains the tools to do a job.

If you hire a carpenter, do you expect him to throw away all the tools and go get new ones?

All your suspicions and speculations don't mean a thing. You're just going to have to wait and see.

As I've mentioned before...


Change in Policy does not require all new people executing that policy. It requires a strong executive with radical ideas for change.


And I think we got that.


Now let's see what policy is actually enacted ok...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


How do I know? Well, one clue I have is that he is appointing people and hiring people who have been in politics and been in DC for DECADES!! Good Lord, that tells me that the way things are done and who is doing them isn't going to CHANGE all that much.

Policy change is one thing. Every candidate who is not an incumbant runs on policy change. But, that isn't ALL that Obama ran on. He ran on the premise that he would change DC and how things were done and who is doing them. How can he do that when all he is doing SO FAR is recycling DC insiders and former Clinton administration folks for his administration??

I am not one of these flaming partisans...never have been, never will be, never acted like one on this board. In fact, I have had to restrain myself from going off on some people from both sides (read a post, get ticked off, count to ten, then decide whether to reply or not). But, some people seem to take the slightest criticism of the man so freaking personally. It is crazy.

I didn't vote for Obama, but he is my President-elect, and I will support him and his office, waiting to see if he will fulfill his promises.

But, the "change" promise, the promise he based his campaign on, isn't coming to fruition so far. It isn't a crime to point that out and/or comment on it.

All some of us are doing is pointing out that not much "change" can come from recycling the same people. Policy, yeah...Republican to Democrat. How things are done and who is doing them (which was the major premise of his campaign)....where is it and who is going to do it when the people who are being appointed are the people that have been in politics for umpteen years?

Do you think that since Colin Powell supported Obama, that Obama will use him as something? Just wondering.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by sos37
Oh yeah, the Zogby poll already answered why this happened. It revealed that most Obama supporters didn't actually care about the real political issues.

"Real political issues"? You didn't look at the questions from the poll, did you? Hardly "real political issues"... Of course, if Sara Palin's wardrobe and pregnant teenage daughters, McCain's houses and candidate's gaffes are your idea of "real political issues" then I guess we have a different idea of what's important...

Oh please! If a vast majority of polled Obama voters could not correctly answer questions about whether the "I can see Russia from my house" comment was made by Tina Fey on SNL as opposed to Sarah Palin then let's get real - how likely are they to answer any real question about Obama's policies and what the man stands for (besides "change")???

Let's face it. You, BH and a few others on ATS are an exception to the Obama supporter group because you know where Obama stands on the issues, but the poll clearly shows that a majority of Obama supporters in America weren't paying attention to the issues that actually mattered and cast votes based on their own narrow vision of the world. True politics is about learning the issues and thinking about them then making a decision based on platforms, not pointing fingers based on entertainment skits!

Originally posted by isa75
Do you think that since Colin Powell supported Obama, that Obama will use him as something? Just wondering.

No. Colin Powell already stated (I saw the headline on MSNBC the day after election day) that he had no interest in serving on Obama's cabinet. I'm trying to find an article to back that up.

Originally posted by sos37

Oh please! If a vast majority of polled Obama voters could not correctly answer questions about whether the "I can see Russia from my house" comment was made by Tina Fey on SNL as opposed to Sarah Palin then let's get real - how likely are they to answer any real question about Obama's policies and what the man stands for (besides "change")???

You are right.. that's almost as ridiculous as the McCain/Palin supporters believing that the proximity of Alaska to Russia gives her foriegn policy experience.




Do you have anything else today sos? Anything that might be close to relevant?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
the proximity of Alaska to Russia gives her foriegn policy experience.

Actually Russia and Alaska have international boundries and international business operations with each other that DO require local government dealings. She has more executive foreign policy experience then Obama. She's still not ready for the job (neither is Obama), but she DOES have more executive foreign policy experience due to the location of Alaska having two foreign countries on it's borders - Canada and Russia.

Obama meddling in the elections in Kenya aren't foreign policy experience - they are just meddling. And him taking spring break martial law controlled Pakistan doesn't count as foreign policy experience either.

ALL OFF TOPIC!

ERIC HOLDER is the topic.
Him and his pardongate history mean no change!

edited immediately to fix quote


[edit on 11/19/2008 by FlyersFan]

Ah yes, Eric Holder. Eric Holder of www.pbs.org..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Marc Rich fame:

RICH LOWRY: You sound like Eric Holder.

And Eric Holder sounds a lot like Barack "But but but... Bill Ayers/Tony Rezko/ et al were never part of my campaign!" Hussein Obama:

ERIC HOLDER: In hindsight, I wish I had done some things differently with regard to the Marc Rich matter -- specifically I wish I had ensured that the Department of Justice was more fully informed and involved in this pardon process but let me be very clear, very clear, about one important fact. Efforts to portray me as intimately involved or overly interested in this matter are simply at odds with the facts -- in truth because the Marc Rich case did not stand out as one that was particularly merit or use and because there was a very large number of cases across my desk that fit into this category I never devoted a great deal of time to this matter; I and others at the Justice Department had nothing to gain or to lose by the decision in this matter. We had no professional, personal or financial relationship with Mr. Rich or anyone connected to him. And to the best of my knowledge, none of us ever saw the Rich pardon application. Indeed it is now clear-- and this is admittedly hindsight-- that we at the Justice Department and more importantly former President Clinton, the American public in the cause of justice would have been better served if the case had been handled through the normal channels.

Oh yeah, I can see why some here love this guy. He sounds just like BO!!

[edit on 19-11-2008 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by sos37

Oh please! If a vast majority of polled Obama voters could not correctly answer questions about whether the "I can see Russia from my house" comment was made by Tina Fey on SNL as opposed to Sarah Palin then let's get real - how likely are they to answer any real question about Obama's policies and what the man stands for (besides "change")???

You are right.. that's almost as ridiculous as the McCain/Palin supporters believing that the proximity of Alaska to Russia gives her foriegn policy experience.

Do you have anything else today sos? Anything that might be close to relevant?

Show me the poll where McCain/Palin supporters actually said they believed that? I must have missed it. Thanks.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by sos37]

reply to post by sos37


Don't need a poll.. Bay Buchannan said it repeatedly during the campaign.

Oh and go look at FlyersFans post above.. he seems to think so as well.

Btw, weren't you supposed to be starting some anti-obama website or something... what's that URL?



[edit on 19-11-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by jsobecky
Oh yeah, I can see why some here love this guy. He sounds just like BO!!

Now that you mention it, he does .. doesn't he?

He makes a snap decision and later backtracks claiming he didn't pay enough attention and he didn't have time and he had too many things on his plate to make a good decision.

'that's not the decision I knew ... '

Oh lovely. And the change from old washington style politics is ...where?
Not with Eric Holder that's for darn sure.

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOO OFF TOPIC AGAIN!

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Oh and go look at FlyersFans post above.. he seems to think so as well.

I'm a girl.

And what I said was that she had more executive foreign policy experience due to the FACT that Russia and Canada have border issues and business issues with their neighbor Alaska - more executive foreign policy experience then Obama - but still not enough to say that she's qualified or experienced enough. The Govenor of Alaska DOES have dealings with those countries in some manner. That's just a fact.

Read what I said.

The topic is Eric Holder - not Govenor Palin.

ON TOPIC - Eric Holder

FALN, Global Crossing, Marc Rich, Weather Underground Chickeepoos, Pardongate, Chiquita International Brands ...

Where is the promised change from Washington politics as usual????

Originally posted by FlyersFan
ON TOPIC - Eric Holder

FALN, Global Crossing, Marc Rich, Weather Underground Chickeepoos, Pardongate, Chiquita International Brands ...

Where is the promised change from Washington politics as usual????

Maybe it's one of those things that you just can't see.


I see the change, don't you?

Originally posted by skeptic1
How do I know? Well, one clue I have is that he is appointing people and hiring people who have been in politics and been in DC for DECADES!!

That may indicate a possibility to you. That's a "clue". but you don't know how he's going to lead or what his policies will bring about. We don't have ANY results yet to see if there's any change or not.

How can he do that when all he is doing SO FAR is recycling DC insiders and former Clinton administration folks for his administration??

I believe he can. As I said, we don't know. We'll have to wait and see the RESULTS of his actions after he's been in office a while.

I am not one of these flaming partisans...

I don't belong to a political party and have voted all across the board.

But, some people seem to take the slightest criticism of the man so freaking personally.

I don't see anyone taking the criticism personally. But just as people are free to criticize him and his actions, others are free to defend him and give their viewpoints.

But, the "change" promise, the promise he based his campaign on, isn't coming to fruition so far.

I absolutely agree. Not yet. He hasn't started yet. No matter WHO he chose for his cabinet, the change promise he based his campaign on wouldn't be coming to fruition yet because he hasn't started his job yet. My point is that it's hardly logical to judge his results based on the tools he's choosing!

All some of us are doing is pointing out that not much "change" can come from recycling the same people.

And I ask again, How do you KNOW? You don't. So many analogies have been given - the same tools used by 2 different people can result in crap or art. The same car driven by 2 different drivers creates a completely different experience. The same classroom presided over by two different teachers produces 2 virtually opposite responses.