God is dead... get over it

reply to post by atlasastro


The thread has nothing to do with creationism vs. evolution...

Instead it was speculation on if religion and creationism is in fact taught in such a way as to inspire anti-intellectualism... (its not what you think, look up the definition... its even supplied in the thread).

here is the thread... www.abovetopsecret.com...

here is the definition we worked with:
Anti-intellectualism describes a sentiment of hostility towards, or mistrust of, intellectuals and intellectual pursuits. This may be expressed in various ways, such as attacks on the merits of science, education, art, or literature.

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by atlasastro

 

The thread has nothing to do with creationism vs. evolution...

Instead it was speculation on if religion and creationism is in fact taught in such a way as to inspire anti-intellectualism... (its not what you think, look up the definition... its even supplied in the thread).

here is the thread... www.abovetopsecret.com...

here is the definition we worked with:
Anti-intellectualism describes a sentiment of hostility towards, or mistrust of, intellectuals and intellectual pursuits. This may be expressed in various ways, such as attacks on the merits of science, education, art, or literature.

Here is what you said.

There was a thread discussing if Creationism breeds anti-intellectualism. very productive thread, except for the fact that people were arguing whether or not creation or evolution was correct... which was NOT the intent of the thread.

And then you say in your last reply.

The thread has nothing to do with creationism vs. evolution...

Yeah, you really explain yourself well.

Just a question about this quote of yours before i read the thread you linked (thank you BTW).

Anti-intellectualism describes a sentiment of hostility towards, or mistrust of, intellectuals and intellectual pursuits. This may be expressed in various ways, such as attacks on the merits of science, education, art, or literature.

When you say attacks on these fields, do you mean the fields in General, or did you have a specific source in mind.
I asked this because the last time i checked Many Religions are also responsible for and produce Science, Education, Art, and Literature. So your hostile attack on religion, and the posters inspired by it, would then look a tad Anti Intellectual? if you are refering to the above fields in general?

Anyway, Im off to see this Thread that was so productive.



[edit on 19-11-2008 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by nj2day
You need to prove, using scientific evidence, that your god exists.

If humans have been around for over 400,000 years, why is it that man has only just not populated the Western Hemisphere? What was the spark that propelled us from throwing sharp sticks in warfare(up until 1500s) to landing on the Moon? People forget that during WWII there wasn't a single satellite in outer space yet now you can find the nearest Subway with your hand-held GPS device.

Nope, there's no evidence of anyone monkeying with the human race at all is there?

It IS possible to discuss the results of x without discussing the proof of x.

So, it is possible to discuss if a belief in something causes a person to react a certain way... as per the thread...

this thread was not to support or denounce atheism or theism, or Creationism vs Evolution...

Its much like discussing the results of Jihadist Muslim extremism without discussing the Koran...

btw... the good explination of the definition we used is in the thread somewhere... however, the on topic discussion really doesn't start till after about 10-12 pages of religious rhetoric from both atheists and theists alike.

it might not be a good example, however, its the only one left on my list in myATS section...

I'll see if I can find others later on.. I need to make some coffee

Originally posted by nj2day
... however, the on topic discussion really doesn't start till after about 10-12 pages of religious rhetoric from both atheists and theists alike.

wow..that is serious thread drift, considering we are only on page four.
-----edit-------
oops, misunderstood your post about that statment. my mistake
-----edit------

god is dead... get over it

what a funny notion.
if......god were real, then it would be ridicules to assume he was dead. seeing as how god would be the life juice of everything in existence. without god, things would cease to exist.

if.......god were not real, well.....it would be ridicules to say he is dead. because well, he never existed in the first place.

but the title of your thread is "God is dead....." in part at least. maybe you do believe in god at some level, and you are making a mission to tar and feather him and his followers. or, you are just trying to piss of the believers.

I say........people believe !!! get over it !!!

I you don't agree, don't read it. don't listen, walk away. click to the next page.
be the better man, at let people be.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by JSR]

Originally posted by nj2day


here is the thread... www.abovetopsecret.com...

here is the definition we worked with:
Anti-intellectualism describes a sentiment of hostility towards, or mistrust of, intellectuals and intellectual pursuits. This may be expressed in various ways, such as attacks on the merits of science, education, art, or literature.

I suggest you take a good long look at this thread OP. First, its source for its term Anti-intellectual is from Wiki. So is this the defining standard for the entire thread?
The Op then goes on to say this.

Indeed, Science is a method of building accurate knowledge, a methodology that been developed and honed for thousands of years.

Now is Wikepedia the method that science uses to accurately and methodically develop and hone its belief when defining Anti-itellectualism?

The thread is good, it appears civil. You participate nicely, civily as do most posters, if not all. I like poster Lasheic's replyto this Post in which you make some rather poor assumptions. Man he smoked your A$$ in that one. I can see why you didn't post again after that.

You know for a thread that was supposdly ruined and derailed from being productive, I noticed that the was not one warning, or post removed by Mods? Did you alrt the Mods to all the terrible, terrible production ruining off topic religious posts?
I also noticed that the OP frequently goes of topic, and sometime blatantly attacks creationists in ways that have no topic relevance, why did you not alert the OP to this. Did you alert the Mods to this also.
Curious. 26 pages, no warnings, lots of off topic posts by the OP and users like Noobfun and yourself, and then all the same old same old and usual arguements, commets from those that believe in God and those that believe in Science. Not much produced here if you ask me. You really expect me to buy this as a reason for your thread. Please.

I really enjoy this balanced and highly constructive discource on the Anti-Intellectual aspect of creatonism, backed by personal opinions and "what I think", labels and assertions of brainwashing. How methodical. Oh, yeah i forgot, its ok if you express a belief, but if one has god as a source......

Originally posted by nj2day
I don't think the one's that do that though are anti-intellectuals, I just think they want to inject their own propaganda into the brainwashing of our youth...

Its easier to keep a church going if the next generation has already been brainwashed into thinking their views are legit, or scientifically valid

reply by Good Wolf

Yea. Where I'm from that's what Catholics do instead of knocking on doors and generally evangelizing. They make more Catholics than get more Catholics.

Ether way, it's still gonna develop an anti -- you know what I'm sick of typing it out so I'm just saying -- AI generation. Once they've been indoctrinated till 7, you have their minds for life and they are AIs.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My work is done here. That is what I call being productive.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by atlasastro] LOL, moved to BTS, i knew it.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by atlasastro]

Oh my gosh ....say it isnt so .....and just who was powerful enough to have killed him .....YOU ?

So maybe to you he is dead ...but that does not mean that he is ....your gonna be really surprised to see that he is in fact MORE ALIVE THAN any of us are ..

reply to post by atlasastro


After spending the better part of a decade or so studying propaganda, I am more than willing to defend that statement in another thread if you decide to create one.

Further on the "I think" comments, I cannot, with good authority, comment as fact what I have speculated to be the intents of other individuals. To do so would be irresponsible... however, this statement was actually in defense of the bible thumpers, which was promptly followed up with me conceding the point in the next post.

Its pretty wierd you point out the point in the thread where we actually start making headway on the original post as the point of weakness...



Isn't this the thread where occasionally I mentioned that I was OT? or anyone else was OT etc? I believe it was... if its not, I apologize, as I must have linked the wrong thread.

reply to post by Simplynoone


oh man, do I have to go through this again?

sigh... "God is Dead" is a quote by a famous philosopher.

Find the philosopher, research the meaning, and you'll understand what is meant...

its been posted 2 or 3 times within this thread already

Does anyone read beyond the thread title anymore?



[edit on 19-11-2008 by nj2day]

reply to post by dbates


You haven't posted any evidence... Lack of evidence for one argument does not validate your argument.

That isn't how science works...

You must provide evidence that makes your argument the most probable explaination out there...

but at the risk of getting Off topic... the fast answer for your Western Hemisphere question is the fact that the Bering Strait land bridge did not exist until after the last ice age. And, since Humanity started on the AFrican continent.. it can only possibly spread to areas connected by land, or areas adjacent to each other but separated by a very narrow (in the grand scheme of things) body of water...

reply to post by nj2day


your a pretty slick guy.

in your OP you seem to be upset about the x-tian fundamentalist preaching to you in ATS. yet your title, is supposedly, a quote form Friedrich Nietzsche about how we as people have killed everything that was holy.

im not sure what one has to do with the other. unless it is some sudo-intellectual jab at those pesky x-tains.

reply to post by nj2day


Sorry you feel this way. I think it comes from a matter of perspective. If you ask most of the Christians around here, they, too, will feel assaulted on here. It's also a very rare occurrence to be able to have a 'Christian fellowship' thread in the faith forum, where it belongs, that isn't hijacked and intruded upon by members with no other purpose than to cause trollish disruption.

I also disagree with you about the threads in the CIR forum being Christian lovefests. In most of our eyes, it's more like a Christian bashfest. Not to mention, rarely is there a thread that isn't hijacked by the general religious hater who has to make the broad comment about eradicating religion as a whole.

Anyways, in your defense, I looked through your threads and didn't find a single thread dealing with religious topics so that tells me you honestly want to be left alone, which is completely fair. The only time I get irritated with the 'religious people [almost always Christians] are taking over/destroying ATS' type of threads is when the OP themselves has multiple threads asking all sorts of religious questions or starting all sorts of religious discussions. You don't seem to be one so your gripe is fair. You're also just expressing an honest vent and aren't trying to get us banned, ran off from ATS, or trying to change our right to express our opinions on an official rule-based level. So, fair enough. I'll try to pay special attention not to engage you in any religious discussion if I see you around the boards.

And one twist that I can't help but mention, telling someone to check out the Flying Spaghetti Monster (atheistic material), can be taken as preaching in the same way I might be accused if I told you to read the Bible. That is, for the more sensitive among us who like to blow things out of proportion.

reply to post by JSR


meh, I'll go with half right lol I was pretty ticked when I wrote the OP...

Its saying (in my opinion, as is everything philosophy) that a supreme being is no longer needed to dictate morality, answer scientific questions or explain our lives day to day...

I meant it to be supplemental to the thread by implying that while religion isn't welcome in intellectual threads, it isn't necessary for other things as well...

I wouldn't call it a full on stab at religion... maybe a little half hearted jab or something...

However, it would seem that most people that responded never took the quote for anything but face value... which is sad

You have to admit, religious or not... That is a very powerful philosophical statement worthy of at least consideration by most everyone...

Nice catch

reply to post by AshleyD


Oh i'm not in the least asking you (or other religious people) to keep religion away from me, or out of ATS all together...

I just want it in its proper place... There's a difference

Its hard to explain...

If Religious people are honestly discussing religion, and are on topic, Great! I'll stay out of it... unless I can contribute positively...

If non-religious people are having a discussion on topic, and I feel I can contribute I will...

Debate threads are ok by me too... as you know what you are getting into when you read the thread title.. ususally it is very combative, and you know before you go in...

The problem I have, is when the Religious people needlessly inject rhetoric into intellectual discussion... or when non-religious people go bashing in the religious/spiritual discussions where they are obviously not welcome...

Thats what drives me nuts... For those who read my posts before the election, I feel the same way about politics...

by all means, discuss or engage all you want... but if you don't want me crashing an honest thread tossing banter around, than allow me to do the same

hope that cleared it up

Originally posted by nj2day
You have to admit, religious or not... That is a very powerful philosophical statement worthy of at least consideration by most everyone...

yes I would have to agree that the statement with respect to how he meant it, deserves its own thread and conversation. I happen to disagree though.

there is a whole lot of reason to believe we as a people would look to a higher being than ourselves for guidance. what ever that higher source is. and however you choose to connect with it.

as far as science is concerned, god, is not entirely unwelcome. many scientist believe there must be a form of god. though they may not believe in the same manner as those who profess righteousness do.

Originally posted by nj2day
Oh i'm not in the least asking you (or other religious people) to keep religion away from me, or out of ATS all together...

1). No worries. It didn't look like you were trying to silence religious discussion in general on ATS. Not remotely. If so, my post would have been more defensive.

2). But I did misunderstand keeping it away from you. It is totally understandable to want to keep discussions in their proper place. Sometimes thread derailment can be fun and intelligent and open the door to an interesting side debate but mostly it is irritating. lol

I just want it in its proper place... There's a difference

Its hard to explain...

If Religious people are honestly discussing religion, and are on topic, Great! I'll stay out of it... unless I can contribute positively...

This is actually a very fair concern. I've been guilty of interjecting off topic religious opinions into threads. Can't help myself sometimes, being a Bible thumper and all. I unsubscribed from all forums dealing with religion last night (CIR, BTS faith, and O&C) in an effort to take a mini break yet am still seeing religious threads on the list of recent posts in other forums. So I can understand trying to escape a subject, only to still see it around the forums. Not to mention there are threads where the topic isn't religious but the threads will shift in that direction anyways. Again, guilty.

Take care. I always thought it was fair to go easy on people venting their frustrations in the rant forum. Nobody can help the way they feel or what irritates them and we are all entitled to a good rant from time to time.

[edit on 11/19/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Sounds like we might be two sides of the same coin lol.

I try, but sometimes I succumb to the trolls, and go off topic...

usually I catch myself and end the thread by acknowledging I was Off topic, and announcing I will not be responding to detractors of my post, but they are entitled to a shot.. (I wouldn't want people to not have the opprotunity to respond, thats unfair).

Then I resume back on post... Its tough sometimes...

I guess the best thing is to just not feed the trolls at all... but there's always a few in every thread that will every time lol

reply to post by nj2day


i'm not trying to beat you down bro; but you've made a lot of crude remarks and you're speaking in absolutes. It just comes off a bit hypocritical considering the alleged actions' and mindsets' of the people you're in opposition of.

i'm just saying that maybe you should take it easy and not let it get to you. You can't convince anyone of anything, if they are not willing to believe

[edit on 11/20/2008 by JPhish]