"Brown Shirt" Euphemism?

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
It couldn't "happen again", because it didn't happen the first time around.

actually it did. when they got too powerful the paranoid hitler did away with them. But they DID happen and he DID use them to get to the level of power he wanted.

I posted this in another thread but I feel I need to repeat it here. In my children's schools, they held a imaginary election. My children did not vote for Obama. They also did not brag about who they voted for. They were asked and very honestly told the truth when asked.The black students are now calling them racists because of it. I have said nothing yet hoping it will just die out. Kids can be very cruel to each other.

There was never any conflict of skin color before this mock election at their school. My children are well aware of the sad history of how America treated slaves and are not raised to judge anyone by skin color.

This reverse racism could very well be a very real scenario I am afraid.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
It couldn't "happen again", because it didn't happen the first time around.

actually it did. when they got too powerful the paranoid hitler did away with them. But they DID happen and he DID use them to get to the level of power he wanted.

But you're pointing out yourself that they were stopped! What kind of bogeyman is that? Now if they ran unchecked and became the number one Nazi force, bigger and stronger than the SS or the regular German military and were only stopped by the allies, then yes, the analogy might make a good bogeyman. As it stands, it's piss-poor.

Look, if you're worried this programme is going to be just like the brownshirts, then you've nothing to worry about as you know what happens to the brownshirts in the end. If you think these brownshirts will somehow be different, then you'd better start looking for a different analogy, because then they're not going to be the brownshirts you'd like them to be in order to suit your argument.

Obama has already got power, he's the President Elect, pretty soon he's going to be the President. He doesn't need brownshirts to give him power (or even more power) or even to give him a fanbase - he's got it already without this voluntary programme.

Seriously, if you want to use brownshirts as some kind of analogy it's got to be an accurate analogy. However, the way it's being used bares very scant relation to the brownshirts and their relation to Hitler.

okay...you guys are getting hung up on the 'brownshirts' thing. I posted the title more to bring in readers than anything else. My question to you is solely about the viability of the government manipulating the african-american populace to further their own agenda.

If you can make relations and ties to the brownshirts of hitler's regime, then by all means, go for it. It helps to recognize patterns so that we may better know how to prepare.

But that is not the focus of this post. please don't make it so.

To the topic of your post: I agree, and have had your thoughts in my head since I first heard of the civilian national security force.

The racial approach is is a knee-jerk reaction that I am sure many hold. From the perspective of the OP- a valid one for consideration. I will offer some thoughts I have had.

Upon acceptance into the program, the recruits are sent to camp. Once training is completed, their assignment areas are all over the country.

The recruiting centers are conveniently located nearest the crime riddled neighborhoods.
Effectively, the force is comprised of the lowest income levels, like-minded individuals being dispersed, after being trained and equipped and funded as our military.

Is it possibly a coup in the making?

"What get my goat" is all this uneducated black people think Obama going to ride in on his horse and save THIER life. Obama this and Obama that. I actually heard one kid 20-25 say "Obama goin' to change the wold yo" thats not a misspelling thats how he talks. Now I voted for Obama I think he's the right man for the job, I have my reasons .
Now back to the point. the girls in the OP post at best sound as dumb as a brick. Whats sad is she and all uneducated black people going to have the rudest awakining Obama dont run to their aid and gives the "whiteman" his come up ins so to speak and they'll see thats its not the wihe man keeping them down its themselves.

Originally posted by CSquared288
okay...you guys are getting hung up on the 'brownshirts' thing. I posted the title more to bring in readers than anything else. My question to you is solely about the viability of the government manipulating the african-american populace to further their own agenda.

If you can make relations and ties to the brownshirts of hitler's regime, then by all means, go for it. It helps to recognize patterns so that we may better know how to prepare.

But that is not the focus of this post. please don't make it so.

Someone is always furthering their own agenda, we are just coming off a binge of the rich and powerful acting like drunken sailors and squandering our national wealth, and selling off our freedoms to the highest bidder.

If there is a lesson in this it is that we have the power to act as a people and influence the outcome. We must stay vocal and in charge of our own destinys, or someone will steal our futures once again.

There is always danger, danger in change, and danger in stagnation. What we need is a common and agreed set of human values, only from that can we survive as a common people. In a word, start with "courtesy".

People will live up or down to your expectations. When someone is rude or out of line say so loudly and clearly. When someone else does this, back them up. No one has the power to act like a Brown Shirt unless others give it to them through their inaction.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply to post by Merriman Weir

So why the need for some neo-brownshirts in this equation? They don't fit the timeline you're suggesting or even the role your suggesting.

I was very clear as to the reason Obama wants his brown shirts. If you don't want to accept it, fine, but I will not repeat the same post again. Read my post. It is quite clear.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Azador]

reply to post by FlyersFan


Sorry mate im not an American or a Obamamite.I could give a toss about Obama or Mccain.
I still stand by my people are afraid of the change he represents stance.I think alot of people dont like the fact hes black but are to afraid to admit it openly.Are people really attacking him because of his policies and who hes gathering together?
Of course this is my opinion only and thinking off the cuff im not a big American politics follower

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I was very clear as to the reason Obama wants his brown shirts. If you don't want to accept it, fine, but I will not repeat the same post again. Read my post. It is quite clear.

That you think Obama wants some alternative group or power is fair enough. I don't actually have issue with that; this is a conspiracy site after all. The problem is the use of the term 'brownshirts', it doesn't work in the way that people are wanting it to, it holds practically no merit at all.

Here's something I said in an above post:

Look, if you're worried this programme is going to be just like the brownshirts, then you've nothing to worry about as you know what happens to the brownshirts in the end. If you think these brownshirts will somehow be different, then you'd better start looking for a different analogy, because then they're not going to be the brownshirts you'd like them to be in order to suit your argument.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir

The problem is the use of the term 'brownshirts', it doesn't work in the way that people are wanting it to

Look, I know you're a reasonable person, so all I ask is that you watch this video of Obama Youth and tell me if you would be concerned if this were happening in your country:

conservativebelle.blogspot.com...

This is what the Obama civilian force could become very easily. These young kids are practically hypnotized into worshiping Obama, and would do anything for him. If this doesn't remind people of the Hitler Youth, I don't know what would.

reply to post by Azador

I think alot of people dont like the fact hes black but are to afraid to admit it openly.Are people really attacking him because of his policies and who hes gathering together?

I think that this video will answer your question. Here is a well-known black minister that believes that Obama is the new Hitler. Take the time to view this video, and listen to this minister. He makes a lot of sense:

www.youtube.com...

I'm not going to state whether the racial overtones in the OP have relevance to my post here, because my objective isn't a derogatory one when I state that...

If you who started this thread are indeed a black person, and go so far as to see the "outside the box" relativity of political operations, then I highly commend you for your outlook.

It is an intelligent one and what's more it rises above the degenerative self pity so many within the Black Community continue to deprive themselves with, and inevitably impose on others with.

I wish that there were more AMERICANS with this kind of insight alive to see the things evolving in our Country today, and if you can see the scapegoat being portrayed here, then I will say that your intellect is refreshing.

Your analogy of the situation is pretty much correct, with a few slight differences in detail, however the elitist agenda will take as many turns necessary to beguile the flock it has cornered into a pen and has sheered to bare skin.

Like Malcom X stated,"By any means necessary". For them it has come to that, and while I wish the best for Obama, I fear he has only played a sympathy card to gain his position, one he fully understands is only a poster boy position. Many will find that his promises will be double edged, point in case: why would a law such as the Patriot Act offend him to the point to promise it's repeal when in reality, as a senator, Obama voted for it?

Indeed, to be honest with you, most of what Obama has promised so far was written in a failed piece of legislation that became known as Patriot Act Two... the Domestic Enhancement Security Act.

Anyone here remember that little item?

Spread the Word!

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
Look, I know you're a reasonable person,

Don't try and flatter me with your smooth-talking, fancy words!

so all I ask is that you watch this video of Obama Youth and tell me if you would be concerned if this were happening in your country:

conservativebelle.blogspot.com...

This is what the Obama civilian force could become very easily. These young kids are practically hypnotized into worshiping Obama, and would do anything for him. If this doesn't remind people of the Hitler Youth, I don't know what would.

Firstly, I don't have broadband so watching videos online is pretty much out of the question for me I'm afraid. Nothing to do with the clip in question.

However, I've no issue at all with people being concerned with what Obama is proposing. My own views on the matter are irrelevant but I can understand Americans being concerned, even if I don't actually agree with their concern. If that makes sense! If people think policies are being placed on them, policies that fall outside of their own political boundaries, then it's only natural that they are going to be concerned.

However, my issue is with the lazy or poor analogies being made. Firstly, you're saying "Hitler Youth" rather than the Brownshirts which is the context of the thread and my debate. Obviously both were connected with the Nazi regime but ultimately they were different organisations with different aims and different endings. They weren't synonymous or interchangeable and so it serves no purpose to use the terms 'Hitler Youth' and 'Brownshirt' in this way. Ultimately, the Brownshirts are a very poor bogeyman and analogy simply because of how the Brownshirts story ends. It's like watching a film for a second time and being worried in case the villain somehow wins during the repeat. It doesn't matter how many times the story of the Brownshirts is told, what happens to them is the same.

As for you trying to draw comparisons to the Hitler Youth, I'm sorry but American has always had similarities to the Hitler Youth. Perhaps not these particular similarities but other similarities: such as the nurturing of nationalism and patriotism; the flag waving and the importance of iconography and symbolism; the pledge; the instillation of the idea the America is 'best' and 'number one'; that American might is right and that America has the right to take that belief anywhere across the world to spread its 'message' and so on; that if you're not for America you're against America and therefore unAmerican and so on

All these similarities to the way the children were indoctrinated in the Hitler Youth have been a part of American culture since at least WWII. So why aren't you concerned with these similarities? Why are you being so selective in your comparison and analogy with the Hitler Youth?

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir

the instillation of the idea the America is 'best' and 'number one'; that American might is right and that America has the right to take that belief anywhere across the world to spread its 'message' and so on;

That's an ironic statement, considering you are a citizen of a country that has had an EMPIRE FOR LONGER THAN AMERICA HAS BEEN A COUNTRY. It is England that tried to "civilize those savages" by bringing them into your "empire". The English are HARDLY people that should be throwing stones from their glass palaces. Cheerio.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by Merriman Weir


That's an ironic statement, considering you are a citizen of a country that has had an EMPIRE FOR LONGER THAN AMERICA HAS BEEN A COUNTRY. It is England that tried to "civilize those savages" by bringing them into your "empire". The English are HARDLY people that should be throwing stones from their glass palaces. Cheerio.

Hahaha! Do you mean the Empire that ceased to be before anyone on this site was even born? How could that be indoctrinating people now? You know, people alive now, not in the 19th Century or very early 20th Century but people now? Whereas what I describe is America now, not in the past.

We'd actually lost the Empire proper before the WWII Nazis, whereas America's nationalism and patriotism (and the expression of these which draw similarities to the Hitler Youth) seems to have burgeoned after the Nazis!

Anyway, how about addressing the point I made in my previous post? Why are you unconcerned about some similarities to the Hitler Youth (as outlined previously) but concerned about others? I thought the Hitler Youth were bad guy bogeymen? Surely you should be equally be concerned about all aspects of how they were run and came to be, not just the one that suits your own scaremongering agenda?

Originally posted by CSquared288
The goverment puts his arm around the average black man, "All that and more, my friend."

"Get your arm off me," says the average black man, "and tell me where I can sign up for this dream job!" The average black man and the government begin to walk off into the sunset,

"Alright, now we're talking! There are a few stipulations when joining this force though."

"That's alright man, we're bros. I'll do whatever you want me to, just pay those bills and keep the average white man below me..."



This story illustrates my point. We've seen this game played on an emotional and social level in many instances. why would this be different?
The average black man would have every reason to join a force like that, AND the government would be able to remove a large number of probable dissenters (revolutionaries?) and reinsert them into the equation on their side.

It's genius really.

And I've thought of a title for my story: The Average Black Man Goes to [training] Camp.

I think this would be a viable option for the government to use. Your thoughts?

I think you are belittling the acheivements of all black people when you intimate that this could not have happend had the white man not let it.

That's what I was thinking about. I was contemplating a scenario in which the government does in fact declare martial law not only to quiet dissenters, but to control the societal "drop-outs" as well (as there are many already, for the law to have any meaning, the force that it empowers would have to carry out it's enforcement. This is where a forseeable problem arises. Most of the people that comprise this force (whether police or military) have friends and family that would be negatively affected by this.

If martial law is declared....the dissenters will not be quiet nor will it control the societal "drop-outs."

Possible solution: A large, disillusioned black male populace whose paradigm has been purposefully shifted, ever so slightly, to encompass the idea that the proverbial "white man" is the cause of all their problems (including socioeconomic status).

No matter how large your disillusioned black male populace is....it would be a bloodbath if a civilian security group tried to enforce a martial law (military rule) code. The numbers and the training isn't in their favor.

Many truly, vehemently believe that O'bama is going to profoundly change their life. So is it far-fetched to think that maybe the loyalty to the black president who's promised the world could be manipulated?

Yet again...read above

Not really. An already closely knit group of individuals whose loyalty resides mainly within themselves.

Tribal identity goes in many different directions. And as you say...if the scenerio is a Martial law scenerio... tribal structuring will be an impulse.

With the message of their intention veiled in political rhetoric (as they clearly do even today), I am worried thinking about what a large number of the american populace could be convinced to do...

me too, from both sides of the street

That's what I was thinking about. I was contemplating a scenario in which the government does in fact declare martial law not only to quiet dissenters, but to control the societal "drop-outs" as well (as there are many already, for the law to have any meaning, the force that it empowers would have to carry out it's enforcement. This is where a forseeable problem arises. Most of the people that comprise this force (whether police or military) have friends and family that would be negatively affected by this.

If martial law is declared....the dissenters will not be quiet nor will it control the societal "drop-outs."

Possible solution: A large, disillusioned black male populace whose paradigm has been purposefully shifted, ever so slightly, to encompass the idea that the proverbial "white man" is the cause of all their problems (including socioeconomic status).

No matter how large your disillusioned black male populace is....it would be a bloodbath if a civilian security group tried to enforce a martial law (military rule) code. The numbers and the training isn't in their favor.

Many truly, vehemently believe that O'bama is going to profoundly change their life. So is it far-fetched to think that maybe the loyalty to the black president who's promised the world could be manipulated?

Yet again...read above

Not really. An already closely knit group of individuals whose loyalty resides mainly within themselves.

Tribal identity goes in many different directions. And as you say...if the scenerio is a Martial law scenerio... tribal structuring will be an impulse.

With the message of their intention veiled in political rhetoric (as they clearly do even today), I am worried thinking about what a large number of the american populace could be convinced to do...

me too, from both sides of the street