Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

reply to post by ConservativeJack


I know. The people that want to believe this usually have to assume a rumor they have heard to be true to make their story work.

Nevermind the wealth of evidence to the contrary. Oh well!

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


"how much damage..."
You have a point, Jay-in-AR. For the SCOTUS to now rule Obama ineligible would result in far greater turmoil and unrest than did the 2000 election controversy. However, how much damage is done if Obama takes office and is not constitutionally eligible? This is important. Either we have a constitutionally based government in which case our Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms are secure from Tyranny, or we don't have a constitutionally based government, in which case anyone who manages to get control of the reins of government can do anything he wishes. So it's a sort of catch 22. And the fact is, we wouldn't be in this mess if journalists hadn't swept this under the rug earlier in the campaign. The challenges to Obama's eligibility would have been thoroughly examined and thoroughly rebutted (as opposed to casually dismissed on superficial grounds), or sufficient doubt would have been established such that the Democrat Party would have nominated a different candidate. But we are where we are because the mainstream media didn't want this issue on the table. They weren't out to find the truth and let the chips fall where they may; they were out to get Obama elected. Again, maybe all this eligibility stuff is nothing, but we don't yet know, because it hasn't been thoroughly addressed.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


The only evidence that has been shown is a unsubstantiated picture of a supposed 'Certificate Of Live Birth' that NO court has seen. There's very little evidence on much of Obama's life. If Obama was a Republican there would be an over abundance of investigations as to every single event in his life. Millions would be spent, but because 'The Daily Kos' says so, its fact.

Zindo

reply to post by ZindoDoone


it doesn't matter what you PROVE TO THE OBAMATRONS. THEY WILL DENY IT UNTIL THEIR DYING BREATH,AND THEN TELL YOU THEY DON'T BLINDLY FOLLOW.
didnt you see the clip where the kids come in the romm chanting "i'll obey" over and over?what the heck is this? third video down
this is the same thing you're fighting here...good luck

reply to post by Avenginggecko


yeah 17 suits in 12 states.NOW THATS A RUMOR!
buts its absolutly racism,too. no one could possibly disagree with another human being.
any more fantasys you wish to dream up? you know,feelings of inadequacy, delusions of grandure, football jocks screwing with you at highschool?

reply to post by Spectre0o0


Please. I could file 50 suits in 50 states. That doesn't make them any more than frivolous if I have nothing but shoddy evidence and hearsay.

The COLB is as valid as a VBC.

Hawaii verified they have the VBC.

Hawaiin law dictates that if someone applies for a COLB and their place of birth is outside of Hawaii/the US, this will be noted on the COLB.

You can call me an Obamatron all you want, but I actually believe people are innocent until proven guilty. But hey, I guess I'm just like those silly founding fathers of ours.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


please find out about all the facts before you make incorrect statements. the BC is not the only thing he is being scrutinized about. please indicate why these are frivilous,beside your blind following of the messiah.
aren't frivilous suits without merit,thrown out before they come to trial?
BTW,where did you get your law degree,and what jurisdiction is your judgeship.
this is happening..like it or not.when you gradeeate from high school ,you will see that things are not always as they seem. and yes iknow that works both ways.
are you really that blind,that you don't even want to make sure he's eligible to be potus

I'LL OBEY ,I'LL OBEY,I'LL OBEY..................................

and innocent until proven guilty??? what are you talking about? INNOCENSE AND GUILT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. DIDNT YOU HAVE TO PROVE WHO YOU WERE TO GET YOUR MOPED LICENSE???????

can you honestly say that you dont understand that i am asking for the confirmation of a vital fact,and you are blindly following? that you dont care to confirm YOUR opinion?
so it boils down to one thing. i want facts,you want to just blow off qualifying criteria in the constitution.



[edit on 22-11-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
reply to post by Avenginggecko

 

please find out about all the facts before you make incorrect statements. the BC is not the only thing he is being scrutinized about. please indicate why these are frivilous,beside your blind following of the messiah.
aren't frivilous suits without merit,thrown out before they come to trial?
BTW,where did you get your law degree,and what jurisdiction is your judgeship.
this is happening..like it or not.when you gradeeate from high school ,you will see that things are not always as they seem. and yes iknow that works both ways.
are you really that blind,that you don't even want to make sure he's eligible to be potus

I'LL OBEY ,I'LL OBEY,I'LL OBEY..................................

and innocent until proven guilty??? what are you talking about? INNOCENSE AND GUILT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. DIDNT YOU HAVE TO PROVE WHO YOU WERE TO GET YOUR MOPED LICENSE???????

can you honestly say that you dont understand that i am asking for the confirmation of a vital fact,and you are blindly following? that you dont care to confirm YOUR opinion?
so it boils down to one thing. i want facts,you want to just blow off qualifying criteria in the constitution.



[edit on 22-11-2008 by Spectre0o0]

You have absolutely no idea of my age and educational level, so I would ask you to refrain from ignorant personal attacks against me.

This thread is about Obama's birth location, and as I have shown you in my previous post, if Obama's birth place was any where other than Hawaii, it would be indicated on the COLB because that is Hawaiin law.

In a court of law, there is innocent, and there is guilty. In the US, we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

I have confirmed my opinion, I've stated it in at least 4 of these big threads about Obama's birthplace, and I (in conjunction with others) have used law and reasoning to qualify my statements.

And by the way, I've never had to show my birth certificate for anything other than going to the Bahamas when I was 10, and that wasn't the vault BC. You don't have to show a BC to obtain a license.

My suggestion to you would be to stop making veiled attacks on posters who don't see eye to eye with you and maybe someone will take you more seriously.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


all i want is an answer to the last paragraph in my last post.
and the emotion is from people who only see things one way,and then claim they have examined the issue from every angle,and covered their point with legality.
obama neglected to verify his citizenship by getting a dismissal.he is the one causing the questions.
for a man that can change the world,he sure is having a hard time with one piece of paper.
WHY? I ,AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES,DEMAND HE PROVE ELIGIBILITY.
now tell me why this is so outrageous. so bad,or incorrect on my part.

as far as his bc,the first one had no seal or folds. then suddenly its a different form with an anomoly that wasnt on the first.
then i find out that obama is affiliated with the fact check people,and they contributed to his campaign.
i see pictures of him in an indonesian school that requires citizenship,and does not under any circumstances, accept dual citizenship.

obama's,i mean barry's indonesian school records
did ytou consider this also?

[edit on 22-11-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
and the emotion is from people who only see things one way

Which I find extremely ironic hearing this from folks such as yourself who believe in this garbage, despite evidence on the contrary.

WHY? I ,AS A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES,DEMAND HE PROVE ELIGIBILITY.

Well thats the thing, you are but a minorty of rightwing nuts who choose to believe the man is this and that and what not, this doesnt necessarily reflect the vast majority of the population and those state officials who have confirmed him to be eligible. By all means you have the right to your own belief, but no right to demand something over some rightwing conspiracy.

then i find out that obama is affiliated with the fact check people

Over the years Iv learned that any criticism made towards the GOP or any rightwing conspiracies debunked with evidence, there is always this "liberal bias" label by the right. I swear that anybody who says a thing against the rightwing are "liberal bias". I mean theres no objectivity anymore. Not to mention politifact and all the other fact checkers have confirmed his BC and authentic as well. Geez... will ya get over it?

i see pictures of him in an indonesian school that requires citizenship

Obamas step father lied to get him into school. As described in his books and biographies, Obamas step father was somewhat of a shady character but they had the best of interest.

In no way could Obama gain citizenship during those times because:

a)Citizenship during those times were only awarded to those born in Indonesia or Indonesian territories. Even though Obamas mother married an indonesian citizen, Obama would have to be 5 or under to gain automatic citizenship but because he was 6years at the time, he had to wait for atleast 5 years to apply.

b) Obama left back for Hawaii at the age of 10years, and thats 4years following his mothers marriage to his step father. This was under the legal requirement to gain citizenship and in addition, during those times Indonesia under no circumstances recognized duel citizenship, so the fact he left for Hawaii in under 5years, and never gave up his US citizenship, he never had Indonesian citizenship.

Its in the Indonesian constitution and I posted it earlier in this thread or another, I aint ganna go back to that one.

Try again buddy.

can you honestly say that you dont understand that i am asking for the confirmation of a vital fact,and you are blindly following? that you dont care to confirm YOUR opinion?
so it boils down to one thing. i want facts,you want to just blow off qualifying criteria in the constitution.



[/quote
just answer the question,is this the way you look at it? just hand him the keys and walk away?

reply to post by Spectre0o0


There you go:

Indonesian citizenship is given to:

1. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
2. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
3. A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
4. A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
5. A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;
6. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.

In addition, citizenship is automatically granted to those children 5years and under in the case of marriage or adoption. Other than that there must be a 5year time span in Indonesia if citizenship is to be granted. Obama does not apply in this case, as I said before, because he came to Indonesia at the age of 6years and left at 10. So in this scenario he never attained Indonesian citizenship.

Source: Draft revision of citizenship law No. 62/1958 of the Indonesian constitution.

In addition:

the applicant should have no other nationality or should lose his/her previous nationality upon acquiring the Indonesian nationality or the applicant should expressly renounce his/her previous nationality according to the laws applicable to him/her

www.expat.or.id...

No evidence to indicates that Obama ever gave up his american natural born citizenship inorder to become an indonesian, and parents would not have the power to do so, child would have the opportunity after the age of 18 to take that step and give up his citizenship but by that time Obama already left Indonesia 8years prior. Therefore by this he never had Indonesian citizenship and never had dual citizenship.

Oh and heres another one...

Marriage with an Indonesian national does not automatically confer Indonesian nationality to the foreign wife

www.expat.or.id...

So Mrs Dunham herself, obamas mother, may have never really attained citizenship herself as her son, Obama. But I dont know, could be wrong. Its insignificant as Obama is president but thought it might be a good idea.

And here let me repeat this to you again. The certification of live birth is the short form of the complete birth certificate. The very fact the short for birth certificate conformed his birth in Hawaii reflects exactly what it says in the long form.

But then again who knows, you may only want to long form to see whether it says his father is an arab or some other whackjob conspiracy you folks will want to come up with next. Either way you have no real grounds to request anything of the president elect neither do you have the standing and evidence to say he isnt a natural born american citizen.

Please friend... i suggest you stop this bickering, its just not looking good for you all.

yes and just another note, the 2006 version has a minor change, 5years spent in Indonesia to attain citizenship has been extended to 15years.

Also, with the 2006 version of Indonesian laws regarding marriage and citizenship:

Children born of mixed Indonesian and foreign parentage can now obtain dual nationality.

www.indonesiamatters.com...

This was only added recently, over 40years after Obamas short time in Indonesia. What does this show? Well it shows that since Obamas parents were considered a mixed marriage, prior to 2006 it was a complicated matter to automatically grant children of foreign-citizen marriages in Indoensia dual citizenship. Since Obama was not the child of seotoro and he had only spent time in Indonesia for 4years, never gave up his citizenship and never have up his natural born citizenship, this means he never had Indonesian citizenship.

[edit on 22-11-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Let's run the scenario where the Justices would run temporarily insane and rule Obama ineligible to take the Office. Be it the case, the Constitution should take care of the substitution. Would Joe Biden become the next US President? Remember that Biden is not the Vice-president yet.

But what if the Justices also rule that Obama's candidacy was an unconstitutional act? What would happen in that case?


[edit on 11/22/2008 by stander]

Originally posted by stander
Let's run the scenario where the Justices would run temporarily insane and rule Obama ineligible to take the Office. Be it the case, the Constitution should take care of the substitution. Would Joe Biden become the next US President? Remember that Biden is not the Vice-president yet.

But what if the Justices also rule that Obama's candidacy was an unconstitutional act? What would happen in that case?


[edit on 11/22/2008 by stander]

Nancy Pelosi

Originally posted by southern_Guardian

Originally posted by stander
Let's run the scenario where the Justices would run temporarily insane and rule Obama ineligible to take the Office. Be it the case, the Constitution should take care of the substitution. Would Joe Biden become the next US President? Remember that Biden is not the Vice-president yet.

But what if the Justices also rule that Obama's candidacy was an unconstitutional act? What would happen in that case?


[edit on 11/22/2008 by stander]

Nancy Pelosi

Very likely so. Since Pelosi is very friendly with the Big 3, the fate of the US automakers is in the hands of the Supreme Court.

The simple solution for Obama would be to just slap us with his proof.

But he hasn't. So just continue to evade the situation and give us a barrage of big paragraphs.

Originally posted by Cio88
The simple solution for Obama would be to just slap us with his proof.

But he hasn't. So just continue to evade the situation and give us a barrage of big paragraphs.

the man has time and time again. Read the posts before instead of repeating what every other rightwing nut does here time and time and time again, with no explanation.

Originally posted by stander
Very likely so. Since Pelosi is very friendly with the Big 3, the fate of the US automakers is in the hands of the Supreme Court.

Nancy Pelosi? Not likely. Not unless this case(s) extends beyond Obama's Presidential Inauguration. Up to that date, many different factors could (and quite possibly would) come into play.

Since the Electoral college hasn't yet 'officially' voted for POTUS, nor for VPOTUS, they can still choose someone else for the position. Well, sort of. It actually depends on what state the Electorate is from.

Different states have different laws; regarding the Electorates and their vote, respectively.

Some states actually require their Elected official to vote for the candidate they were elected to vote for. Others allow their electorates to choose whomever they see fit, no matter their poliltical affiliation, nor the popular vote. This doesn't happen very often, as they'd be very unpopular (pun).

Now, lets say that BO is found to be ineligible for office. Electorates from the states with strict electorate laws would still have to choose him. The other states could vote for the other three candidates: Biden, McCain,or even Palin.

Although, the Democrat Presidential ballot would be open to the Dems' (next) choice of who they want to pick. They can either put another name (one who ran for Dem Primary), or leave it 'as is'.

So, Pelosi would not be POTUS. Not unless the President leaves office (for what ever reason), then the VP leaves office (for what ever reason). Then, she's be up. But seriously! This is exactly why the POTUS and VPOTUS are NEVER in the same place at the same time. The odds of Pelosi becoming President, this term, are less than 1%.



[edit on 23-11-2008 by SourGrapes]

reply to post by SourGrapes

Aha. That's right. Obama is still "President-elect-proposed." That would be quite a nightmare, because I think more states require the electors to chose the 270+ choice. Would there be a chance that John McCain would emerge from the whole predicament as the winner of the 2008 election just before the inauguration?

But if the issue wasn't settled fast enough, the Speaker of the House would be the interim president, right?