The Christians hating gays contradiction

Originally posted by Grandma
I was shocked at their behavior. That little lady could have gotten hurt. They really did not help their cause any with that protest.

the point is its played up becasue she is an elderly woman who i would hope knew better and the fact it was a cross

she wasnt in danger she stepped out of the crowd intentinally to wave her cross around with a big smile on her face

it got nocked out of her hand and people moved in and stamped on it

its used because A)she is ederly B) it was a cross

the whole video is look they gays hate christians and oldfolk to rile up more people to the reliegous/politcal agenda they are pushing

do i lose respect for the protestors .. no they are standing up for what they believe in and they took it out on her banner not her (which often isnt the case when reversed)

do i lose respect for an elderly lady loving the fact she is sticking it to the evil gays .... hell yes


the old testament says stone homosexuals and paul/saul calls for them to face the same gods law

id say by comparisson she got off rather lightly

I,d like some one to convince that following the bible is a good thing. to do this you will have to counter my prejudices that have built up against the church and religion as a whole, or will you tell me that i am just damned and not worth "saving".

i was baptised into the catholic church, i was an alter boy, went to church every Sunday and confession every Saturday. I have an uncle that is a priest, a cousin who is in the process of leaving the priesthood and an aunt that is a nun.

the priest in my church when growing up was a horrible man who used to scream and shout at us in the sacristy,

my cousin was raped repeatedly by the fathers in the seminary, read a book 'the pyjama parade' he wrote it, the priests who did this wee never punished. when the book was about to be published the church tried to ex-communicate him, he had death threats, phone calls telling him there was a bomb in his car. he ended up having to go into hiding in another country.

when I started to get a mind of my own and questioned parts of the bible, I was told to just accept what it says, and do what it says without question.

when i was really young i stole something from the church, i was thrown out told never to return, where was the forgiveness to a 10 year old.

my aunt has ran an orphanage in Bolivia that she set up and ran with the help of my family for the last 16 years. she's now nearly 70 and has come home to retire, the church has taken over the orphanage, but told her that she needs to pay the people that worked for her their redundancy money, (church are putting their own people in) she is a nun they don't get wages, hows she supposed to do that.

these are just a few examples of stuff i personally have witnessed that have came from people who call themselves christian.

now convince me to become a 'christian' once again.












[edit on 14/11/2008 by whoswatchinwho]

Hey All:

It's getting time for this grandma to go to bed. But before I sign off for today I would like to say a couple more things.

1. I am truly wanting to understand, I really am.

2. Do I think homosexuality is a sin? Yes, at this time I still do.

3. Do I think everyone has the right to fall in love and want to spend their life with someone and be happy every after? Yes, I do.

4. Do I hate gay people? No, I do not.

5. Do we all sin? Yes, we do and by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we have hope, everyone!

Peace to all
Grandma

reply to post by whoswatchinwho


I am so sorry for all the pain you and your family have gone through. It is so wrong. Please, do not group all Christians as bad because of those you knew. I will pray for you tonight that somehow the pain and hurt will heal.

You have a friend,
Grandma

As a Christian, I agree with you on some of what you say. However, I feel that I would be remiss if I did not expand on that.

Do you not believe in a genetic basis? NO
Do you believe God creates people pre-damned? NO
Do you feel God gives you the right to judge? NO
Do you feel God hates gays, or anyone for that matter? NO

God created us all. He knows the day of our conception, birth, death, and knows what our ultimate choices will be. He created Man and then created Woman as his mate. Then man and woman defied God and ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Hence, we are now born with a sinful nature. God also gives us the free will to make choices. What I chose, was to follow His Word and live by it.

A sin is a sin is a sin. . . I believe that homosexuality is simply another sin. It is a choice that one makes to ACT ON it or NOT. I am a sinner, you are a sinner, we are all sinners. However, since Christ died for our sins, one can receive salvation by accepting Christ as their Savior and repent. KEY WORD "REPENT" If you have ever told a "white lie", then according to God you are a LIAR; if you have ever picked up a pen from work or some other place and taken it home, then you are a thief; if you have ever looked at another person lustfully, then you have committed adultery in your heart; if you have ever "hated" someone, then you have committed "Murder" in God's eyes. As, I said before though, Christ died for our sins and He is how we get to Heaven. You accept Him as your Savior and REPENT of your sins and follow His Word and HE will guide you in the right direction.

There are several references to God's stand on homosexuality, not just ONE verse.
Gen 9:4-13 / Lev 18:22 / Lev 20:13 / Romans 1:26-28 / Jude 7 / 2 Peter 2:6 / 1 Timothy 1:8-10 / 1 Cor 6:9-10 /
It is written in BOTH the Old Testament and the New Testament. While there were SOME things that God changed after Christ's death & resurrection, (like what used to be "unclean" to eat, we can now partake in.) But HIS law on homosexuality is explicit.
You see, as a follower of Christ, I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God It is to be taken LITERALLY. Now, with that said, if you read the Bible you will see that there are several "parables" in the Bible and Christ makes it clear that He speaks in that way so that only the seekers of the TRUTH, will know the TRUTH. I read my Bible daily and continue to seek Him in everything I do. I have changed several of my views on things that I was taught growing up, since I now have a PERSONAL relationship with Christ AND live by His Word.

As for the ones who proclaim to be "Christians" and speak and preach with HATE. . . well then, according to God's Word, they are WRONG! And God will deal with their hearts in HIS own way. Christians are called to be an example of Christ's LOVE and we are NOT called to judge one another. It makes me sick to hear of people like that carrying signs at funerals, yelling out that "God Hates Gays", and various other obscene things. That is NOT showing Christ's Love.

Having said all of that. . . God's ways are not ours. . . in His eyes, a sin . . .is a sin . . .is a sin.

And for the record, my brother is gay and I love him AND his partner. They are both a very active part of our lives!


[edit on 14-11-2008 by SugarMom]

reply to post by SugarMom


SugarMom:

Well said!

Peace,
Grandma

This is one of the most despicable and pathetic thread titles I've seen. To assume that any true Christian hates is a false assumption. Christians don't HATE anyone. They don't accept things, but that is not hating them. A true Christian either accepts or rejects something. A Christian will speak out against things, but never by force. It's a Christian's duty to witness for God. There are probably as many or more FALSE Christians, than true ones. To foster any kind of hate in ones mind, against a creation of God, is un-Christian. We do not agree with homosexuality because it is identified as an abomination in the Bible, however, nowhere it is our place to take any action against that. God will deal with that, in final judgment, as well as he will deal with all sin. We are not to pronounce any judgment, that is not our place. Christians are made by their true thoughts, and actions, not by the words that come out of their mouths that go against their actions. That, my friends, is NOT a Christian. There are many liars in the world, any many that would use the name of God for profit, and evil motives. They are NOT Christians.

My thoughts.

reply to post by SugarMom


Homosexual acts are a choice but homosexuality (the attraction part) simply is not.

Gays can't help being that way as much as you can help being strait, and to tell them to change (or choose to be strait) is as abhorrent and difficult to do as it would be for you to be attracted to your own gender.

The blanket statement that it is a choice doesn't cut it for this reason.

You see, as a follower of Christ, I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God It is to be taken LITERALLY.

And you would be wrong to do that, mainly because that is an impossible thing to do because of the contradictions and other flaws.


If what you say is true then you would stone a child for misbehaving.

[edit on 11/14/2008 by Good Wolf]

Not sure if this was said already but... What if homosexuality is natures way of population control?

reply to post by JaneFonda


No it has not been said but I'm glad you brought it up. This thread has mostly been about a few verses that imply that homosexuality is wrong.

reply to post by SugarMom


Do you think stoning people to death and slavery are okay?

Originally posted by SugarMom
You see, as a follower of Christ, I believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God It is to be taken LITERALLY

Every Word?

To be taken LITERALLY?

So how many people did you murder last Sabbath Day? Just curious.

Face it. ANYTIME a Christian comes across a LITERAL Word in the Bible that is just "too muchery" for their inner moral compass to come to terms with... then it has been nullified by the New Covenant!

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by SugarMom

 

Do you think stoning people to death and slavery are okay?

Old testament is very different than new testament

The new testament is part of the progression of Gods plan to purify us because of the acts put against us, that corrupted us, in the old scripture. The new testament is all about being reborn in the spirit. Through choice not acts, but still we must choose

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by MAINTAL

Originally posted by Blueracer
The title is misleading. Christians do not/should not hate gays. Like God, hate the sin. Not the sinner. Agree or not, I'm just pointing that out.

I'm afraid you got that wrong partner, GOD DOES HATE the sinner and it is the sinner who he rebukes not the sin. God does not punish the sin he punishes the sinner. It is the sinner who must repent, not the sin. Sin in and of itself couldn't care less what God thinks because it has no mind no concsience. I know this soft on sin type of logic is often used in many of the churchs today because they don't want to offend anyone but it sure isn't in the Bible that way.

By your logic, a parent hates their child and so they punish and discipline.

....I don't know many parents who hate their children.

Yeah,, according to scripture it is called wrath and homosexuality is called an abomination and instructs that the marriage bed not be defiled.

It isn't my logic and I don't know many parents that hate their children either but I am not talking about parents and children. I am talking about God and Sinners who have not accepted his son so they may escape that judgement. I don't know why it would matter to you anyway good wolf, I mean looking at your profile, you are just another professional Christian antagonist who isn't about being interested in understanding the Bible, your only interest as evidenced by your many posts, is to attack it.

Frankly, I got better things to do than live my life as a vendetta against a God for what ever the reason, know, that I don't seek the approval of antagonists like yourself and fully expect you to disagree.

That it means absolutley nothing to me, I know what you're about and that is all I need to know.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by SugarMom

 

Do you think stoning people to death and slavery are okay?

Not everything the Bible says, the Bible endorses.

It assumes that you have the common sense to know that.

reply to post by MAINTAL

Not everything the Bible says, the Bible endorses.

God specifically says to stone people to death for violating certain laws. Christians cannot pick and choose whatever that fits their agenda. If they pick one, they have to pick ALL or nothing at all.

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

Not everything the Bible says, the Bible endorses.

God specifically says to stone people to death for violating certain laws. Christians cannot pick and choose whatever that fits their agenda. If they pick one, they have to pick ALL or nothing at all.

Tell that to Jesus when he suggested to those who were about to stone the harlot saying: "he without sin, cast the first stone"

Guess that kinda screws up your whole argument eh

reply to post by Deaf Alien


One would surmise as much since they say Every Word is the infallible Word of God.

However, as I pointed out, they have a Plan B when they get cornered about obvious neglect of God's Word:

New Covenant

When it supports their argument EVERY WORD is to be followed to the T. When it doesn't support their argument, the New Covenant logic overrides the OT Law. It's ridiculous.

reply to post by MAINTAL


If you are going to take Jesus's Word as precedence over everything else said in the Bible then you will find zero anti-homosexual Words.

Care to take the challenge?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

If you are going to take Jesus's Word as precedence over everything else said in the Bible then you will find zero anti-homosexual Words.

Care to take the challenge?

Yeah Jesus wasn't one to insult other peoples intelligence so much that we would have to actually wonder whether he was against a man sleeping with another man.

His design for Marriage was between a man and a woman That when he spoke sex sin such as adultery and fornication sex before marriage THAT DUH YEAH,, THAT MEANS SEX ANY SEX AND ALL SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE FALLS UNDER SEX SIN. Including those who have sex before marriage who are gay. I don't think Jesus has to spell that out for people unless they want to split hairs rationalizing a way to justify their homosexuality


Like I said The Bible assumes people have common sense when they read it.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by MAINTAL]