The Christians hating gays contradiction

reply to post by Parabol

To those who say 'change them', is like asking a straight person to change to gay, their genetic feelings and direction are based on the same chemical principles as gays

For me,this is your most important point.

And it gets ignored by those who believe gays can be 'cured.'

And the sad thing is,it will be continued to be ignored because its the one point they cannot answer.They will try,'oh we know gays can convert people' and that kinda BS.But they don't actually know,their just spouting bigotry they've heard from church leaders.

If choosing to be gay is a choice,then choosing to be straight is also a choice.


And,as for those who preach that God hates homosexuals....

As a wise man once said;"The epitome of evil is having spiritual leaders condone hate in the name of God."

I would like to get back to a very important part of all this discussion that we got away from. That is the way the gay protesters gathered around that little old lady and yelling and stomping on her cross, that was bad form.

Like I posted earlier any good feelings I may have had towards them at that point went away and I felt anger and discussed with the whole group of them. They will never get Christians or any other group of people to listen to them unless they behave like rational people. They were truly ugly


Grandma

1. Do you not believe in a genetic basis?
   
2. Do you believe God creates people pre-damned?
   
3. Do you feel God gives you the right to judge?
   
4. Do you feel God hates gays, or anyone for that matter?
   

I think the problem here is that you are equating a person that desires homosexual interaction with the actual sin itself - which is the acting out of the homosexuality. Homosexuality is a sin, but so is drunkenness, over-eating, being lazy, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. All are sins and no sin is greater than another, in the eyes of God.

I am a Christian. I do not "hate" people that consider themselves gay and God does not command me to hate THEM. What Christians should hate, is sin - but that means all sin. A person that desires to be a homosexual and acts on it is no more guilty than all the "Christian" couples that divorce, for example. All are sinners. All are sinning.

This is all a heart issue and when Christians stand on a soap box to point on the sin of the homosexual and refuse to look in the mirror at their own unrepentent sin, they are hypocrites and they are not doing God's will.

I do believe that homosexuals can be born with homosexual tendencies, but I also believe that there is a nurture aspect that can encourage it as well as the influence of society. Even so, it is the homosexual act itself that is the sin - not the fact that some people are born with those tendencies. Some people are born with a huge tendency to become an alchoholic because their parents were and their grandparents. They're not sinning though until they actually start acting like alchoholics by getting drunk. We all have our crosses to bear in life and some crosses seem heavier than others. I consider homosexual desire to be a cross than some people must bear. The best way to do that is to give it over to Christ and to let Him bear the cross, but that means also giving over the sin and feeling repentent when we stumble.

Ultimately, Christians, if they truly believe what their Bibles say will happen those that are not "born again," should feel empathy and sadness for those that are living in this lost and dying world without the light of Christ to lead their way. There is no judgement to be made by us. God will deal with that, because He is righteous and just.



[edit on 14-11-2008 by Ron Paul Girl]

Originally posted by Grandma
I would like to get back to a very important part of all this discussion that we got away from. That is the way the gay protesters gathered around that little old lady and yelling and stomping on her cross, that was bad form.

Like I posted earlier any good feelings I may have had towards them at that point went away and I felt anger and discussed with the whole group of them. They will never get Christians or any other group of people to listen to them unless they behave like rational people. They were truly ugly

Grandma

Total excuse.

The major leaders of the gay protests is calling for peaceful protests and no aggression.

You have one renegade group that gets a bit out of hand. Don't even tell me Christians have never had small renegade groups get out of hand.

So now you condemn everyone.

reply to post by Annee


Annee,

No, truly I don't want to condemn anyone.......I am a sinner also in need of grace. I do wish I could make my heart feel that it would be wonderful for them to have same sex marriages. I really do! I don't want anyone to be denied that kind of relationship with someone they love. However, I can not get past that stumbling block in my way. Maybe someday! Maybe someday! But not today.

Peace Annee,
Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma
I would like to get back to a very important part of all this discussion that we got away from. That is the way the gay protesters gathered around that little old lady and yelling and stomping on her cross, that was bad form.

hey at least they didnt go religeous and self righteous on her

call her an abomination and stone her to death


they went a bit far, but lets face how many physical atatcks do they get for bieng gay how many verbal attacks?

they have put up with religeon beating them silly for so long im suprised its talken this long for a stand to be made even if it is only a small group action

Originally posted by racegunz
Romans chapter 1 verse 27 specifically calls out the acts which today we call homosexuality and calls it vile,unseemly ,and an error. I'm thinking that pretty much rules out the acceptance of homosexuality. Even Lucifer
appears as an angel of light to those he wishes to decieve, you are blind to the truth and willfully so.

and when did you last stone a misbehaving child? thats on the same page of the bible

last time you stoned adulterers and fornicators?

what no you dont want to do that bit of gods law ahh ok it all makes sense now

[edit on 14/11/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by Annee

 

Annee,

No, truly I don't want to condemn anyone.......I am a sinner also in need of grace. I do wish I could make my heart feel that it would be wonderful for them to have same sex marriages. I really do! I don't want anyone to be denied that kind of relationship with someone they love. However, I can not get past that stumbling block in my way. Maybe someday! Maybe someday! But not today.

Peace Annee,
Grandma

I am sure you've done many wonderful things because of your faith. Don't misunderstand me. I KNOW there are those who truly walk in His footsteps. You can feel it when you are in their presence.

I don't in anyway feel you are vindictive. Baby Steps. Hey you are on ATS.

reply to post by jakyll


I don't believe "gays" can be "cured." Those with homosexual inclinations (and each individual will have them to a varying degree) may control them through the practice of abstention facilitated by grace. As is the case with all immorality for each and every one of us. Having a tendency does not mean it has to be acted upon.

I don't think "gays" can convert me or others but the current clamour for equality (not for the people as people themselves but for the action of homosexuality) suggests that such acts are acceptable and moral. It also offers to some a sense of identity, belonging and avoidance which may be the result of nurture rather than nature.

pureevil81

just depends on who they decided they loved the most, that would make for a rather difficult marriage wouldnt it?

Your argument falls down on your belief that love is a choice.
No one can control who they fall in love with.



racegunz

If you don't believe in the Bibles divine authorship, and you are not a Christian why do you care what we think? If there's no God you have nothing to worry about, get over it. Why justify yourself to others? Why do you care what others think or do you just get off shoving your lifestyle in the faces of those that find it wrong or sinful. You are just causing problems so you can play victim wahhhhh!!!! The Christians hate me WAAAAHHHH!!!!!

People care because there are Christians in the world who use their faith to persecute others,and not just gays.




Demandred

i cant remember where in the bible i read it, but i saw a passage that stated that "God Hates homosexual activity"

The only place you would find such BS is in a modern translation.Nowhere in any of the old scriptures does God come out and say directly that he hates gays,or anyone else for that matter.




miriam0566

every single gay person i know, can trace some sort of trauma in their life. and this includes me.

So can a lot of straight people.
And its funny,coz most of the gay people i know,including myself,haven't suffered some kind of trauma in their life.
Trying to use that excuse won't work.



MAINTAL

God Judges the sinner pal, their is no two ways about it.

This does not equal hatred.
God will not judge in anger and hatred,he will judge in peace and love.

Oh,and the lake of fire refers to the 2nd death which comes after all have been resurrected,including the just and the unjust.(see Acts 24:15)

reply to post by noobfun


Noobfun:

Nobody said anything about stoning anyone........where did you get that idea from. I do understand there must be years and years of anger and frustration built up for gay people. And I am sorry about that....but I didn't cause it. For the 60 some years of my life I have never really voiced my views to anyone about how I felt about same sex marriages. I guess I never really thought about it too much until I saw the gay protesters on my TV last night. I was shocked at their behavior. That little lady could have gotten hurt. They really did not help their cause any with that protest.

I am not a gay bashing Christian. At least I hope I am not. I do however, believe there are bible scriptures that speak against it. And like I said before, I can only tell you what I feel and in my heart of hearts I feel it is wrong. I am truly sorry. I am.

Peace to all
Grandma

reply to post by Supercertari


I know.You also believe it is the act that is the sin,not the sexuality.

But d'you know what i hear when people say such things?
Its the same as what i hear when people condemn both the sin and the sinner.

I hear people telling me that i can't be in a loving and caring relationship.That for the rest of my life i will never be able to experience all those wonderful things you feel and do when you're in love.I will be denied the one thing that all human hearts yearn for most:a companion.


Too many people focus on sex in these debates,usually gay sex,and everyone forgets the emotional.Thats because its easier for some Christians to see homosexuals as sub-humans who crave only pleasure of the flesh.



[edit on 14-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by Annee


Annee,

Thank you my dear friend....yes, baby steps... we all start with one step, I hope I have made a new friend in spite of everything

Shalom
Pam

To Christians, I have a few questions:

Would you vote against gay marriage, citing religious reasons?

Would you vote to make homosexuality illegal?

Would you rather see homosexuals in jail? I know a few Christians who do.

Would you vote to force homosexuals to see counselors and try to change their orientation?

Would you rather there be NO homosexuals at all in society?

Originally posted by Grandma
I am not a gay bashing Christian. At least I hope I am not. I do however, believe there are bible scriptures that speak against it. And like I said before, I can only tell you what I feel and in my heart of hearts I feel it is wrong. I am truly sorry. I am.

That's what noobfun was getting at. The scripture that says homosexual activity is wrong is also the place that says to stone children for misbehaving. So unless you feel comfortable stoning children for misbehaving then saying gay acts are wrong is not justified. You can't simply pick and choose what scriptures you live by like that.

The thing I say is that all the scripture like this that says certain people are wrong for being a certain way (black, redhead, gay or whatever) is the part that can not be of God especially if it condones violence. Man wrote the bible, man persecutes those that are different, therefore the bits of the bible which condone such persecution are nothing but ignorant man being inhumane.

reply to post by Good Wolf

Well it kinda does correlate to God. The whole parent analogy is a common christian analogy.

Yeah. That's for saved people.

Now what about unsaved people? There's eternal punishment waiting for them.

Everyone wants to be understood.

I am sorry for the persecution and pain some of you feel.

If you would like to have a little more understanding of the christian perspective, as a quick read, I would suggest Jude. It is a little under one page

You may also find the book of Enoch very informative, but it is much more in depth.

reply to post by Supercertari


Can you describe exactly why you thnk homosexuality is immoral? And please keep it within context of the definition of 'immoral'.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Let us remember that we are talking about beliefs. Eternal damnation/salvation is not a foregone conclusion. Your not christian, nor am I so none of this should have any bearing.

reply to post by Supercertari

Homosexuality, like all immoral inclinations is not a sin in itself it is the act that is immoral. "Common Sense" is not the same as "Natural Law", it was once the common sense that slavery was acceptable, another immoral act which Jesus did not explicitly prohibit.

Actually that is where you are wrong. Slavery was not generally acceptable. Many people were against it at that time. Only a few slave owners thought the slaves were subhuman.

During the Revolutionary War, many Americans felt slavery was wrong. Abolitionists started a movement in the 1800's to try to end the slavery.

Bottom line, slavery was a huge profit for small group of people.

Common sense prevails.

Jesus did not include slavery in his list of sins of Sodom because it was not one of the reasons for God destroying Sodom.

reply to post by Good Wolf

Let us remember that we are talking about beliefs. Eternal damnation/salvation is not a foregone conclusion. Your not christian, nor am I so none of this should have any bearing.

gotcha