Treated like a dog,used as a punchbag:The life and death of a baby boy called 'Smiley'

Edit - I am so angry right now I cannot think straight

I cannot convey the anger, disgust and sadness that I feel now with these words.

These raw emotions will not leave me soon.

I am weeping for this poor, poor little man.

This makes me feel so helpless ... If only I could have taken him away to safety.

I want to be clear ... the anger and disgust that I feel is not towards his mother and her boyfriend.

For them I only feel pity. For their actions I only feel numb bewilderment. They will be punished for what they have done.

Towards the police, the paediatrician Sabah Al-Zayyat, Ann Walker the registered childminder who looked after Baby P 4 days a week, Haringey's lawyers who didn't think to apply for a warrant to check her living conditions and in particular towards her case worker Maria Ward who said she had "no concerns" I feel absolute anger and disgust at their complete ineptitude.

THIS WAS PREVENTABLE!!!

It will be astonishing if there is no action taken towards these people.

There must be ramifications.

There MUST be!

For the memory of Baby P.

Rest in peace little man


[edit on 12/11/08 by Horza]

reply to post by prototism


We probably would.

And that does happen.I've worked in various prisons as a teacher and i've known a cpl guards who've done it.And i don't blame them.People like that don't deserve extra protection.

reply to post by Horza


Very well said my friend.

Man Im a single father and... wowwhere to begin. I read stuff like this and i immediaterly think of my little girl. How can someone do this to a child?? This is the reason i think tourture should be considered as ounishment for extreme voilent crimes> not just some tourture but tourture until the person either kills themselve or dies from infection! Yall might think im insane but i think thats what people like this deserve.

MessOnTheFED!

I feel like choking the life out of that baby's parents. Some would say, that makes me no better than them...I say...so be it. They deserve nothing for what they have done, except the same treatment...

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
Man Im a single father and... wowwhere to begin. I read stuff like this and i immediaterly think of my little girl. How can someone do this to a child?? This is the reason i think tourture should be considered as ounishment for extreme voilent crimes> not just some tourture but tourture until the person either kills themselve or dies from infection! Yall might think im insane but i think thats what people like this deserve.

MessOnTheFED!

Originally posted by sdrawkcabII
I feel like choking the life out of that baby's parents. Some would say, that makes me no better than them...I say...so be it. They deserve nothing for what they have done, except the same treatment...

Interesting. You directly condone the use of torture of these individuals, yet you have the stance that the torture comminted against the child was wrong (and it was, don't get me wrong).

So not only are you setting a double standard, but you are exhibiting qualities (read: disturbing) not unlike the very perpetrators of this travesty.

[edit on 11/12/2008 by prototism]

[edit on 11/12/2008 by prototism]

Makes me ill to see an innocent life taken from this earth, Id like to take the mother and boyfriend out back and zero them out. There are so many people in this world that beg for children and cannot have them and would make incredible parents, Very sad to read this. I hope something terrible happens to the people responsible.

reply to post by lombozo


Ooorah Brother.

I remain pretty much non-involved in violence, but I'd make a definite exception in this particular instance.

"...that this sickly progeny may breed".

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
Man Im a single father and... wowwhere to begin. I read stuff like this and i immediaterly think of my little girl. How can someone do this to a child?? This is the reason i think tourture should be considered as ounishment for extreme voilent crimes> not just some tourture but tourture until the person either kills themselve or dies from infection! Yall might think im insane but i think thats what people like this deserve.

MessOnTheFED!

it's a CYCLE.

the person that did this was obviously abused.

was obviously not taught and ingrained with specific conscious values of what it means to be a human in society.

of course we get angry at them and want to punish them BADLY.

but anger and unrestrained emotions of vengeance is what started the CYCLE that created this pattern of behavior in the FIRST place.

believe me.. I'm outraged. constantly by this...

not JUST because the child suffered..

but because millions of people have this happen to them daily.. and they don't die.. they become the very people that do MORE of this....

do unto others.. what has been done to you .. do unto others... WHAT HAS BEEN DONE. (????) -MJK
we really want to keep doing that by punishing these people.. furthering the cycle?? they don't KNOW ANY BETTER!.. they only know to be a living breathing REACTION to their EMOTIONS.

we need to collectively use LOGIC to overcome this problem... not unrestrained emotion.

It's never going to end until WE TAKE CONTROL of people that are NOT FIT for bringing up a new human...
and make it so that they are UNABLE to keep on CREATING more people that (consciously or not, ) keep this CYCLE of ABUSE THRIVING!!

IT'S OUT OF CONTROL!

it's the REASON the world is the way it is... a chaotic mass of confusion, abuse, and insanity.

I think it's HIGH time to apply IRON-FISTED MEASURES to this issue.

GLOBALLY.

-

[edit on 12-11-2008 by prevenge]

This is a very sad case. Not that it's much solace but, I believe he's in a better place. The mother and her boyfriend should be tried under the death penalty but even if the UK had it, it would never happen. They're attorney will plead some lame excuse about one or the other of them suffering abuse themselves as a child, they'll get a short prison sentence with mandatory counseling and be stamped good as new. Turned out to do it again.

I worked in the Criminal Courts Division in Tulsa, OK for 7 years and I saw case after case of physical abuse resulting in death and sexual abuse perpetrated against children by parents, relatives and family friends and I can honestly say that not one of the people tried for these crimes spent more than two years in prison.

There were a few exceptions but for the most part they're on their merry way in less than two years even when it involves the death of a child. Only because the attorney's were smart enough not to let a case like that go to trial. They plea bargain it out so as to avoid getting a harsher sentence from their peers.

The cases that didn't result in death (but ultimately would or will) were sometimes given suspended sentences. The parents go to a 6 week parenting class and have the children turned back over to them before the door hits them in the ass.

It's amazing but it's true. All I ever heard was how overworked Social Services was. As if that's an excuse!

I wish I knew the answer to this madness to prevent another young life lost but with the wheels of bureaucracy turning it will continue to be an endless cycle and Baby P will be just another poster child against abuse.

I'm going to go hug my kids now.

I'm so God dam MAD reading this!! What the hell kind of people are these? Sick just doesn't come close to describing them. I hope there is going to be at least a life sentence. They deserve the death penalty, and even that is not good enough....In fact, the more I think about, that would be an easy out for them....

NO, these people deserve to have the same medicine dished out to them. Let them feel the pain they brought upon this poor child! My heart bleeds for this poor kid. I hope for this child's sake there is an after life, because this life certainly was inhumanely cruel ...

RIP Smiley.... I know everyone here at ATS who reads this story will think of you, and 'pray' for you in which ever way they do



8 Broken Ribs...8!!!! Spine snapped!! The more I think about this, the more the rage within me grows. I had broken 2 ribs in a car accident, and cracked a vertebrate, and let me tell you, THAT is Painful! Your breathing is limited, as every breath you take, that expands your rib cage, HURTS like HELL!! This poor child must have been in Agony.....I can't continue on this, or else I'll blow a gasket, and sure to violate about 4million ATS T&C's




[edit on 12-11-2008 by TortoiseKweek]

reply to post by jakyll


Thank you for posting those articles on this case.

This is the one that everyone should read.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Gees I am angry!!

I would like to point out that as my wife works on the front line for DOCS (department of community services), I fully understand and appreciate the challenges that face child care workers.

They have one of the most unsung, highly and often unfairly criticised and emotionally challenging jobs that there is.

There is huge turnover of staff which makes consistency difficult and the training is often inadequate and the department is, of course, underfunded.

In saying all of that, when you look at Baby P's case and the details that have emerged of the many, many missed opportunities to save his life, it can only point to incompetence on the part of all those charged with Baby P's welfare.

And now it looks like every effort will be made on the part of Haringey Council and Sharon Shoesmith, Haringey's Children's services director to sweep this under the carpet.

Please do not let this end like this!

The latest from 4 hours ago

It looks like there will be ramifications

It looks like there will some justice for Baby P

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Originally posted by Solomons
Hate begets hate...its is truly sickening,but wishing even more evil things against the perpetrators makes you no better.Let them have a fair trial in Britain and the courts will give them what they deserve,years in prison,hopefully until the end of their days.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Solomons]

Don't forget "Do unto others..."

Either way this is horrible. I do not have children but I know for a fact that no child deserves this. They said that when they would snap their fingers the baby would put his forehead on the ground so they wouldn't beat him. How sickening. I'm just.. Well I'll say this, she better be glad I'm not the one sharing a jail cell with her that's for sure.

reply to post by Horza


Yeah,it can be difficult.My aunt was a social worker and their office motto was,'you're damned if you do,you're damned if you don't.' One problem is that the new staff are not being trained properly.They are understaffed and those in charge just want to get them out working as quick as possible.

But,like what you said,with cases like this there is no excuse except gross incompetence.This poor child could have been saved so many times.And the sad thing is,the social worker might have had the attitude of,'well,i'm already too busy,i don't want the extra paperwork and i don't want to have another court case.'

That attitude,amongst other things,is what made my aunt leave social services and take a different job in child care.




[edit on 12-11-2008 by jakyll]

Disgusting. The horrid part of this is the mother won't care, in the end of the article it says that they were surprised with her lack of emotion--or something like that. Honestly if I were near her I'd.........

Death Penalty.

That is all that needs to be said.

I felt like my heart was ripped out when I read this story...
What gets me so emotional is what is going through the childs mind when someone they love is harming them or causing them pain. I can't get this out of my head.

Just knowing that someone has hurt a childs feelings , or them thinking mommy or daddy doesn't love them or is hurting them. This is something I can't handle...

A child loves unconditionally.

A child needs nurturing, comfort, love and security. They deserve this!!!

What makes me sick about the justice system is that anytime there is a horrendous crime like this they get these psychologist who evaluate these people only to find they were "Temporarily Insane".. This is injustice!

Or the people that commit these crimes try and justify their actions by claiming that they was abused also as a child. So this Justifies people's actions? And so they say........the pattern continues!!! This is crap.
There have been many people who have been abused and grown up to become wonderful and loving parents. So if some people can overcome their experiences with grief and pain , and become productive adults, it brings you to the conclusion that it is all about CHOICE..

People need to take responsibilty for there actions and stop being cowards
Our system needs to change, the victim deserves justice.

The sentence should be that however you caused (intentional) death, you shall die in the same manner. No questions asked, and NO DEATHROW!
It would take effect as soon as you are found guilty!

I grieve for all the precious little ones who has had their right to live taken away.....God, bless this baby with your love......................still crying

Hmm all I can really say is that people are evil and do crazy insanely evil stuff. That does not mean we need some gov agency like CPS to exist. I am not sure how it is across the pond but the CPS or social services here are IMHO totally a waste and end up doing more harm than good. The OP called for government intervention, I strongly disagree. Evil happens government is never the solution. Not to be too cold blooded I really agree its a shame but do stories like this really belong on ATS? This is more like 6 o clock news material sad and useless.

reply to post by jakyll


First of all i like to say hi to everyone.I've been lurking this forum for some time and after seeing this post i could not stop my self from posting.
This is truly tragic and i feel terrible after reading the story behind this heinous act of Murder.
I hope those two burn in hell for what they have done to this poor kid.After reading this i had to go and hug my 5 yr old Daughter.I just feel sick to my stomach knowing that animals like this are allowed to breath the same air i am.