Alien Abduction, UFO's, Extraterrestrials, Discussion.

Originally posted by QueenofWeird
Guys guys guys...really! The OP is not asking for some pissing contest but he is asking to "what if there are no aliens involved, but it is all terrestral". See it as an exercise. He asks valid questions and the fact that this is a conspiracy site should actually mean that people are willing to look at all sorts of options.

As far as we here on ATS know (unless you know something and are not producing the evidence) there is no evidence of aliens neither of weird expirements done by humans on humans and then covered by "it wasn't me it was the alien" excuse.

All we have are hints, allegations, smoke (so where is the fire and more important what is the fire?).

I myself have seen weird things in the sky, including an object with a red and green light hovering in the vicinity of another flat. I have no clue what it was. It is simple to pull out the "ah I do not know what it is, and since spooks are not fashionable anymore let me try option aliens". The truth is that I do not know anything, besides the phenomenon I saw.

My personal idea about UFO's is that I am leaning towards terrestrial and based on weird science: quantum physics. It was in the 30-ies that the theory as known today was finally formed and still scientists have no clue what it is all about really.

Mankind is inquisitive and hungry for power. I can not but assume that new scientific theories are going to be tested to see what technology can be developed based on them.

I agree with everything you've said, I have both terrestrial and extraterrestrial layed out on the table. Both are possibilities but I think terrestrial is the most likely possibility IMHO. But who knows!

Originally posted by lightchild

STOP

Please can we stop a moment and have a recap; I am going dizzy.
I have been trying to follow this thread but with all these quote of quotes I am totally lost.

From reading this we can come to the following conclusions?

There are some posters who

1. are enjoying popcorn and a beer

2. think that aliens and Milabs is a load of rubbish.
3. believe that the USA government is behind some abductions
3. believe that physical aliens are behind some abductions
4. believe that inter dimensional beings are behind some abductions
5. believe that they are skeptics
6. believe that they are researchers
7. believe that they are experts
8. believe that they have been abducted
9. think that this is posted in the wrong forum

have I missed anything important out?

I think there are two questions that has not been answered, unless I missed it.
1. Have any abductees brought back bodies, hair and DNA samples of their abductors either MILAB or aliens?

2. Have any monkeys brought back bodies, hair and DNA samples of their abductors?

Meanwhile I will walk away and clear my head.

Thank you for this.

Yes let's STOP and start discussing more.

I'm not against everyone really, I just hope we can further discuss and avoid any further name calling, I'm far from innocent in regards to that.

If the phenomena could be completely attributed to terrestrial sources such as secret military and/or government programs....?

Why hasn't the general, overall experience, as described by alleged abductees, shown a significant increase in the types and use of technology? You would think, given the advances in science and technology, that if this were the result of "our" technology.....that the descriptions would tend to reflect some advancement.

Instead, the related experiences haven't particularly changed from a tech standbpoint.

how would a bear prove to another bear that a human grabbed him from the woods, emplanted a tracking chip under his ear then released him back in the wild?

Originally posted by MrPenny
If the phenomena could be completely attributed to terrestrial sources such as secret military and/or government programs....?

Why hasn't the general, overall experience, as described by alleged abductees, shown a significant increase in the types and use of technology? You would think, given the advances in science and technology, that if this were the result of "our" technology.....that the descriptions would tend to reflect some advancement.

Instead, the related experiences haven't particularly changed from a tech standbpoint.

Very good points and thanks for bringing them to light.
It's these kind of posts that help further the discussion.
There are still many things to put under consideration.
I will be updating a few of my theories within a day or so when I find time with many other things people may have not yet thought about or considered.I'm off to work now so I hope this thread starts moving in the right direction. If some of you wish to come after me and attack for whatever reason well feel free to send your thoughts directly to my U2U inbox so we don't crowd up this thread.
Much appreciated.

I cant really see the gain versus expence/risk the world goverments would get out of abducting people as if they wanted test subjects would it not be easier to test within a secure facility rather than fly around in the dead of night abducting people far easier to pick up homeless ;people and breed them for further test subjects on the matter of pssible proof check this out www.ufoencounters.co.uk... or www.starchildproject.com...

[edit on 11-11-2008 by XxthehoffxX]

Oh you know do you, how in the world would you know? If it’s true that aliens are visiting the planet I don’t believe there is a single person in the world that could know the exact number of abductions taking place? Think about it.

I never said I knew an exact figure. You are putting words in my mouth.

Oh now there are millions of abductions? Where do you get this information, how do you know? Please share, I have read everything involving abduction cases that I can find online am I missing something? Please provide the reports.

You have read everything????.

Please...

Our words are good for nothing without hard evidence, even then we still have to prove the theory. Basing most of your information on books is basing your information on hearsay and words of others still good for nothing unless they can provide hard evidence to back it up.

I could read a few hundred religious books for example on people claiming they have seen God, Buddha, Jesus, Angels, Demons, Zeus, you get the picture but it only means these people have a great imagination or are after selling books even possibly disinformation agents, mental patients, delusional, there are many possibilities including some of them even telling the truth but we can’t take their word for it based on nothing, anybody can make up a story, we need hard evidence you can’t believe everything you read.

It is one thing to try to be scientific and I applaud your effort, but you are wrong once again, don`t come in here and try to give pseudo-scientific explanations, because you are not the first genious that comes to ATS to illustrate the rest of us with your skeptic views.

I’m glad to see you recognize my theory as a possibility, but still what are you basing your information on? A few books you read?

Try hundreds.

This will be my last response to you, your opening post caught my attention and that is why I responded, I have no interest in convincing you or making you a believer, I have wasted many hours trying to do that with people just like you, in the REAL world.



There are many forums where you will find people just like you, I repectfully suggest you go there to seek attention.

Wow! Thanks! Well that's it folks, he proved it! He proved alien abductions are complete bunk. Thank goodness! I just knew I was crazy all these years thinking that they were coming and taking me. This is a real relief! Now I can get mental help.

And invoking Bill Nye’s image, one of the greatest UFO skeptics of our time. You are so dang cool! I mean, Bill did such a great job of defending his positions on that Larry King episode earlier this year. Boy he sure did tear those people from Arizona a good one for saying that ship the size of a football field went right over their house. They were mistaken though…they were clearly stupid people…. just seeing swamp gas and flares or whatever.

Sorry for the sarcasm. I just feel a little burned right now...

Posts like these do not really open themselves up very well to serious discussion. I believe they are here only to intimidate, ridicule, and demean those of us who have had to deal with the stress of alien abduction in our lives. I don’t know whether it is aliens or the government pretending to be aliens, but the snotty, degrading attitude the OP takes in his initial post puts me in a such a defensive position that I don’t even feel compelled to enter the discussion to see if we can get to the bottom of these very REAL experiences.

I don’t believe I’m some ‘special starseed’ or whatever who is visited by the glorious beings of Remulack (yes a coneheads reference), to enlighten the Earth.

But I know, for sure, I have been taken by someone and I don’t think the technology used to take me was within the scope of the government’s capability. So with that said, there is only one thing for me to do, and that is to sit down and shut up. I’ll let all the new age star children continue to speak for all of us abductees, because no abductees with credibility (which I think I have earned in life in several ways) would go on record publicly discussing their experiences. Who would want to be s#t on by the skeptics who, understandably so, just belittle and berate anything we say anyway. I know there is no proof of abductions. I am research scientist and engineer, so I understand science, and I would be skeptical of it happening too. It seems ludicrous! I have been skeptical of myself over the years. But I really believe what I have experienced is real so what more can I do than sit here and be ridiculed.

The things I wonder are:
What possessed the OP to wake up this morning and flame abductees? Are they hurting you? Are they pissing you off? Are they taking your tax dollars?

No one believes us anyway, so why bother going on a vendetta to dig the proverbial knife in deeper? Does it bother you that much that we share our stories from time to time? I mean seriously, what the heck is your problem? It’s not like we have any credibility to begin with, so why take the time writing a dissertation tearing us a new one when we didn’t have a leg to stand on to begin with?

Do you believe in UFOs and think that we are discrediting the UFO community? I wonder that one a lot. Well, if you believe in alien spacecraft visiting the Earth and being sneaky about it, why wouldn’t you believe they have things to do while their here, like study humans. When we go deep into the rainforest it isn’t usually to just take a hike. Most of the time, we are studying the plants and animals. To believe in UFO visitation and not give any credence to abduction accounts is remarkably ignorant.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


I applaud your eloquent rant. I just wish I would remeber to use my camera during these random surprise visits, and then scratch one of my visitors with my nails so I could convince some lab somewhere to give truth to my experiences by publishing to the world their alien DNA.

Sceptics will never believe until it happens to them...I know from experience.

I see DNA being thrown about. Can I just point out, in case it hasn't been mentioned, that if aliens were from outer space and had no biological connection with us, their biology most likely wouldn't be based on DNA? If they had evolved independently, then the chances of their biology being based on recognisable DNA are astronomically small.

Anyway - Jon. I know I annoyed you in another thread, but you're very eloquent and I'm interested in your experiences. Passing no judgement, and as much as I don't want to back up the OP, you said something about caution tape that seems relevant to what he's saying?

[edit on 11-11-2008 by damagedoor]

reply to post by Witness2008


Thanks. I really tried to stop myself from posting today. I mean, what's the point? I tried to involve myself, with all due seriousness, in the plethora of abduction threads lately but was disappointed to be torn up one side and down the other. So, I don’t know why, but I threw a little rant into the mix. I think the tone of the OP and this thread seems like he has it all figured out and the first dozen or so posts were just people ringing in saying, “good job…. Way to tell those nut jobs!” (in so many words).

So I know that if I don’t come to the table with tangible evidence, then there is no point describing my accounts or talking about how it has affected my life. I don’t know why I don’t have evidence. It takes a lot of tenacity to set up a video camera every night, somehow put an 8 hour tape in your camera (time lapse won’t do if you disappear someone will claim you got up between frames) and video yourself sleeping every night. I suppose I could have but there is also this weird intangible feeling that I’m not supposed to try to prove it. (I’m in agreement that it’s surprising no one else has though.)

One experience ended with me having some obvious puncture marks on my body. I thought, “hmmm… I should take pictures of these”, but I didn’t. Something strange happened in my head, kinda like mind control that made me change my mind. Why? I don’t know. I’m always so drained and freaked out afterwards that collecting evidence is the last thing on my mind. But, there really isn’t any doubt it happened from my perspective.

On the bright side, I was brought up in a modest blue collar family and my fascination with what was happening to me (abductions) lead me down the path of going to college which probably wouldn’t have happened otherwise. Ultimately, I got a masters degree in electrical engineering. After years of doing design for the auto companies a friend got me a job at a prime defense contractor as an engineer and as the years rolled on I moved into more and more advanced applied research positions. At this point (after 13 years here and over 20 as an engineer) I work on the state of the art newest military designs that my company is involved in. None involve alien technologies!

I figured in a position like this, with clearances and such, I would have some hint as to what is really going on with UFOs and abductions. Yeah…. No such luck. There are just as many people who work with me who wonder the same things as everyone else. One of my close friends, that I work with, is actually UFO researcher (goes by an alias) but doesn’t mention to anyone in the UFO community that he works here. Personally, I have no idea why people don’t realize that engineers and scientists, especially in the defense community, are equally in the dark and equally interested in the topic. Hell, I spent my life working on a career for the sole purpose of hoping to finding an answer. Well, that’s obviously never going to happen! But I still believe. I haven’t seen the evidence here, but I believe based on my personal experiences.

I have worked with people who have worked at area 51 (I tried picking his brain with no luck), lots of military, other defense companies, the army research labs, etc…. either they aren’t talking or we really don’t know anything because no one has seem to have come in contact with alien technologies. So now I should really be a skeptic right? I’m on the friggin’ inside and I haven’t heard anything other than UFO accounts like everyone else.

The point I’m trying to make is…. I have every reason NOT to believe, but I still believe in my abductions and ufo sitings. That is the level of conviction that a skeptic is up against with a abduction believer.

Flame on. Here it comes.

fixed typos.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by JonInMichigan]

reply to post by damagedoor


Thanks. I do agree on one level. I used to think that aliens should have no similarity to us at all. Time and time again I watch the discovery channel and am amazed at how much life keeps sprouting up independently on Earth following the same paradigms over and over. It's amazing. (Like the life under the arctic near geothermal vents.)

I have never ruled out that this planet was not seeded by them (like the Niburu thing) or perhaps they are time travelers, or ancient remnants of an earlier civilization. Who knows? I don't know. I agree that it's weird that they would DNA or similar appearances but it doesn't really invalidate their existence. It actually opens more questions then it answers and starts bringing in all those sticky biblical questions about the creator and such.

reply to post by JonInMichigan


I usually do not visit these threads, on occasion will read through them looking for other contactees. Then I run across your post, check out your profile and then felt that I could stick my head out a little further. Thanks.

I came to ATS in Jan of this year, I just had to find others and answers. I learned quickly that the search would be a silent one.

I relate to all of your experiences and sentiments. My family and close friends are supportive knowing my down to earth nature.

The ringing in your ears is something that happens to me often always a prelude to contact. The sound and vibrations differ sometimes and I am unable to determine why at this point.

My memories of visits are broken but the ones I retain are intense and hold many messages. I have woken with evidence of having been handled but as you I think of documenting it but the sudden feelings of guilt overwhem that action.

The one thing that has begun to happen regularly are feelings of utter detachment, my hearing is muffled, a feeling of walking on air, then the down load of information into my brain happens. I have researched these feelings and the only similar information I have found was given the term of "Oz Factor".

The one continual message I get is to not fear..that I must control the fear. Certainly easier said than done.

The only childhood memeory of abduction I have was at age six, then they pick back up in September of 2007.

Glad to have met you here.

Almost forgot...I became obsessed with my blood type after september. Was this something that played into your experiences?

Considering all the stars, and how big the universe is, and how much we don't know about it, odds are good for aliens visiting us. Look at our current technology, theres some blurb on BBC about a new super microscope, cloning dead mice, and the beginnings of an invisibility clock, as well as adding in computer microchips into the brain and bloodstream. Imagine where we will be in a few years!

Now, we came from apes. I've read about Reptillians and Greys, and other possible alien species. Possibly the Greys came from a type of dolphin species which would explain their appearance, and the eco-location would explain their mind reading abilities. Well, I don't know about that, but what about the possibility that there are planets in the universe that we know nothing about. We have our 8 planets to study, maybe there is something very exotic we just don't know about. And if that is true there is a possibility that some planets are not carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and phosphorus based, but maybe some unknown elements make up a habitable planet. Now what if the alien creature/Grey evolved from maybe some sort of exotic slug/alien creature that eventually turned into a Grey. And what if, the environment of this planet has highly advance biological creatures, whereas instead of the wheel and fire they invented handheld computers (example). Meaning, what if they don't have trees, sand, dirt, water, but their own natural material that is incredible easy to manifest into super advance technology, basically I'm saying the possibility that alien space ships are biological or part bilogical.

Also, in regards to evidence, it is possible that Alien evidence dissolves into the air and vanishes without a trace.

And finally comparing to Santa Claus and the boogey man, is really stupid, because those have been proven to not exist, and we are spending lots of money to search for life on Jupiter's Moons, Saturn's Moons, and Mars as well as Gliese 581 c &d, OGLE-2005-BLG-390Lb, and Alpha Centauri to name a few.

Also with all the claims of aliens and UFOs and Edgar Mitchell amoungst many others coming forward......I mean come on know.......the cover up.....

This was a great thread and my first post ever! Have a good day!

reply to post by JonInMichigan


Hi again, Jon. Cheers for the reply. It's interesting you're skeptical about military involvement due to lack of personal experience - I guess it means you can empathise with skeptics on alien abductions, given how wild it seems to those not experiencing it. But I do appreciate it must be annoying.

(For what it's worth, I hope you don't think I was ever flaming you. It's inevitable that people with sleep paralysis - like I have had - will end up here, and it needs pointing out to concerned posters, regardless of whether alien abduction is real. What annoys me is the whole "you're calling me a nut!" thing because, by "nut", you're talking about me. There is a cavalier attitude to mental health on these boards).

With regard to DNA, I'm just meaning there's no reason to expect alien DNA to be recovered. If aliens weren't connected to us, then we possibly wouldn't even recognise their DNA-equivalent. If, after an alien encounter, DNA was recovered, that would actually seem curious to me.

has any one seen this footage ,is it a good fake or?

www.dailymotion.com...

Originally posted by martrax40
has any one seen this footage ,is it a good fake or?

www.dailymotion.com...

I'd start a new thread with that, assuming they're not old. The first one is pretty outstanding. I think it's fake, but it's very compelling. I think the last clip of the three, though, despite being apparently shot in 1968, looks to be from a very similar location to the first.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by JonInMichigan

 

Almost forgot...I became obsessed with my blood type after september. Was this something that played into your experiences?

Are you joking? Did you read other posts of mine or something?

Yes, blood type is something that recently became someone of an obsession after I discovered something very unusual about mine.

We should talk more.

reply to post by martrax40


This is definitely fake. I saw it on youtube a while ago. The creator doesn't even pretend it's real. It's part of a CGI movie the guy is working on.

uk.youtube.com...

reply to post by JonInMichigan


After my last post to you I searched your posts and found that you had responded to the thread I started on negative blood types. I am finding that the blood issue ties all of us contactees together.