Prop 8 Passed. We take a step back.

reply to post by weedwhacker


It is kind of sad when people are referring to marriage as a sacred union based in religion when.....

People can get married by an Elvis impersonator in Vegas with little to no hassle at all. How sacred is that??

reply to post by skeptic1


That's kinda/sorta my point, 'skeptic1'.

Thanks for noticing!!

15 pages and still going?! I'm not going to roll thru it all but I hope someone has already made this observation:

it takes a super majority (66%) to pass a spending proposition in California thanks to Prop13 back in the '70's, but only a simple majority (51%) to pass a state constitutional ammendment.

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

And if this is the case, then I propose someone start a petition for a June ballot proposition.... what we only need 10,000 signatures to get it on the ballot right?

It will be a state constitutional ammendment to outlaw narrow minded jerks.

I know I could get the signatures!

reply to post by caballero


This whole country is paranoid about gay people turning everyone gay. It must be some sort of gay plague going on, don't let them touch you or you will get aids and die. Gay people have been around since the beginning of civilization, deal with it - and no I'm not gay.

I don't believe people hate gays (ofcourse there are the few). The problem isn't the gays, it is the laws that will come with this and the indoctrination to our kids. Kids will figure things out as they grow but there are many in the gay movement that want to shove their adgenda down the throats of everyone else. If this would have passed there would be the next step that would make disagreeing with the gay adgenda a crime and so on. Personally I don't think hetro couples should have to go to the govt to get married, get the govt out of my life!

To the gay folks that think that they have to have the approval of the world, get over it. You can't change what people think, besides it takes too much energy worring about what others think and who wants to live in a world where you can't speak your mind.

Gays already have special protections under law and in employment diversity quotas and demand that the rest of society change it's ways to accommodate them, using liberal judges to force their way when the court of public opinion and existing laws get in their way. Why don't you stop demanding love and respect and stop trying to use the law to shield you from contempt or criticism while forcing your way of life on the rest of us and start contributing something more to society than the privilege of your "diversity"? Seriously, after all the demands that you've made on the rest of society to accommodate, celebrate, and praise gays just for being gay(instead of earning respect for accomplishments like the rest of society has to), you throw a temper tantrum and call us all fascists, bigots, and other names when the majority of society refuse this one time to bend to the demands of a very small and very self-centered minority.

People should judge people and groups by their actions. Unfortunately, gays have no accomplishments to speak of and the actions of gays as a community are self-centered, shocking, and lewd. The big question is: why should society change for people who take far more from society than they give back? Frankly, it shouldn't.

reply to post by Sillyfool


Sillyfool....you almost had me 'fooled', as I began to read your post.

Once you used the word 'indoctrination' I could see that your 'argument' was invalid.

Silly....you have conflated, in this discourse, something about PROP 8, in California, and tried to make it about teaching homosexuality in the classroom!!!!!

Really?????

Do you think the average reader here on ATS is that stupid???

Silly, you need to understand the intelligence level of the typical ATS member before you attempt such a pathetic tactic........

edit....for a typo....

[edit on 11/5/0808 by weedwhacker]

second edit....too fast on the first typo!!!

[edit on 11/5/0808 by weedwhacker]

Proposition 8 is an infringement of basic human rights. If straight people, and I am one of the straight ones, can get married, the I see no reason to keep Gays, Bisexuals, Lesbians, and Transgenders from getting married as well. We all have the same emotion, wants, needs, desires, and dreams. I don't care about a persons sexual orientation. The only thing I care about is how they treat me as an individual. I will extend to them the same rights that I have, because if one person doesn't have rights, then, by extension, we all lose them.

reply to post by Epinephrine


Epinephrine, please provide EXAMPLES to support your claims.....

Not sure where YOU live, Epinephrine.....but imagine if we took your LAST post, and substituted everywhere you used the word 'gay' and put in, oh, I don't know....how about 'black'? Or 'Indian'? Or 'Canadian'? Or, 'Inuit'?

You see, we can substitute any word to facilitate a stereotype...but the one who ORIGINALLY uses the words, before being called out on it, is the loser.

I want everyone who reads this to know....Epinephrine is a terrible example, because of his/her depiction of a standard 'stereotype'.

In this context it happens to be about Gay people....but this kind of hatred can bleed to others, and it MUST be stopped!!!!!

reply to post by Sillyfool


I have known people who has grown between homosexual men and women (homosexuality being explained by their parents) and they've come to be normal people just like anyone else. There's no agenda, trust me, only useless paranoia from closed minded people.

Regarding the "you can't change how people think" line it's completely absurd. You certainly can change people's mind, in fact it's a very healty and encouraged exercise. If you present your case with solid arguments you can change a persons' opinion on a matter (assuming the listener is smart enough to consider other points of view). If you couldn't change people's mind, then you would be stoned for death for checking out an african-american girl, for example. People's mind change as time goes by and we become less and less ignorant and bigots.

Well i'm one of those people that voted yes on 8. I probably won't be a popular person on this thread but this is how I think and I don't believe gay marriage is right, and apparently a lot of people think the same I way do if this prop passed the way it did. Now being from California myself, I've had friends and aquantinces who were gay and I have nothing against them. Being also catholic, that has a lot to do with my decision. Not saying that my religion is my only reason, because I have my own qualms against gay marriage and so forth.
With that said, the title of this post kinda erked me when saying this is a step back. Thats not true at all. Everything stayed the same on the matter to which I see it still staying the same for many many years. I'm just glad it passed.

OP


If this is THE most disgusting news you have ever heard, you have been living under a rock my friend.

First of all, I'm not gay and so I cannot sympathize to the situation.

Second, who cares about marriage anyways. Why don't you just get married secretly and un official? Big deal! Be glad you aren't being shot on the street for public display of affection. I mean come on... gay men kissing and such in public, it is seriously disturbing. *cringe* Gayness is a mistake of nature, if you've been cursed with being gay, keep it in the privacy of your own home. seriously. Be glad you weren't born with a real disability that you cannot control.

As for " the most disgusting news you've ever herd " , you need to open your eyes.

reply to post by caballero


I agree. Despite the fact that I am an avowedly heterosexual, this is sad. Apparently the anti-prop-8 movement was funded by religious organizations outside of CA. Once again, we see religions fostering hatred and intolerance. Makes you wonder if they ever ask themselves, "What would Jesus do?" I mean, can you honestly imagine Jesus actively campaigning to deny people the same benefits of a union that heterosexual people enjoy? Perhaps they can't get over the fact that science has shown that homosexuality is not a choice but is a consequence of biology--it's the way certain people are made. Perhaps there is another state that will support this (e.g., OR or MA). If we can continue to educate people, the tide will eventually turn. May take another generation...

Dude... maybe it's because with straights it's an opposites relationship? Like, some people have difficulty with the opposite gender and stuff - like, uhm, keeping each other happy?

Because "gay" people get alone better and team up better?

The tax breaks and stuff...people have an ideal - work for reward. Maybe the woman/man situation is just more work to maintain? Usually straight people have best friends who are straight? I haven't studied that stuff yet

Anyways, there is not a law preventing 4 "gay" people from making like a 2 bois/2 girls agreement if that is cool with them? Know what I mean? If it's really that big of a deal y'all should do it anyways cause we just defrauded billions not to long ago? Tooth for a tooth like that? (I am kidding, sort of - I do not condone getting caught breaking the laws of the land, but I do condone love between two consenting adults...)

Keep at it y'all, or move to Boston.

I don't care if a man and a man want to be married. I don't care if a woman and another woman want to be married. I don't see why the government is involved with these choices. I cannot even imagine me wanting to be married to another man. But that is me. I have a sister and a daughter and maybe a granddaughter who would like to benefit from marriage laws and I see no reason why they should be denied the benefits that opposite gender couples receive. But, hey, I want to be able to be married to more than one woman. Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful for me? Heh. HOw about we just let marriage be an arrangement between consenting adults and leave it at that?

To everyone hating about the proposition 8 pass...

GET OVER IT!!

Once Gays start wanting to marry, they are going to want raising kids. Rasing kids in a gay marriage is going to make the kid troubled later in life... its called psychology. Things were meant to happen for a reason, to continue prospering and functioning as should. There are deep effects instilled within a child when they dont have mommy and daddy like the other kids.

I'm not against gay people being together, but jesus christ, doesn't mean you have to have an official marriage. GET OVER IT!

I see a lot of prejudiced people - both gay and straight - spewing intolerance on this thread. I look forward to a day when there is no restriction on anyone's actions. If an 80-year old man chooses to marry an 8 year old child, it shoud be their right to do so, and no one should be able to deny them that freedom. Someday I hope that there will be a world free from intolerance to anyone's desires, no matter what they might be or how "absurd" they might seem to some, and there should be absolutely no imposition of anyone's morals. Hopefully one day there will be no moral foundation to the world whatsoever. What have morals ever done for mankind? And there will no longer be any religions to say what is right and what is wrong. The only religion will be the "I" religion, where "I" get to do anything I want as long as it makes me happy, and "I" am the center of my own universe and nothing and no one else matters. In the case of Prop 8, so what if the majority of people feel differently than a minority about gay marriage? If I were gay I would cry about it daily until it is changed because there should be no restrictions on gay marriage, polygamy, beastiality, or whatever floats each person's boat. It is morals which are destroying our planet. What we need is a country where anything goes. Now that would be a nation that we could all be proud of.

As a California resident, I too voted yes on 8

Honestly I didn't even read the whole text, I just read some flier some guy handed to me and it stated that gays will be allowed to have civil unions and have the same rights as a married couple, but their civil unions will not be defined as marriage.

Whether it was true or just some political BS, I really don't care.

To tell the truth I am tired. I am tired of gay agendas. I am tired of gays suddenly becoming protected people. I am tired of gay groups complaining about everything. I am tired of gay groups threatening to sue religious institutions because they refuse to have gay wedding ceremonies. I am tired of gays pushing to teach the details of homosexual lifestyle in classrooms.

I voted yes on 8 out of pure backlash. I don't hate gays, I just hate the pushy gay interest groups and something needed to be done to put them in check.

I am happy that prop 8 passed. I admit it might not be the best legislation or even the right legislation. It is however a giant middle finger that needed to be displayed.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by wutone]

I am curious, as I couldn't find the answer looking at the campaign material, but will gays in CA still have the right to civil unions, and then be able to share property, make medical decsisions about each other, and most of the things that married people enjoy? Anyone know about this?

So if gay people can form civil unions and get all the rights, except maybe the ability to be foster parents, then what is the big problem? They can still have big ceremonies and call themselves what ever they desire, the state can't stop that.

I voted against prop 8, because it seemed that rights were being taken away, and the state already has too many laws.

This is what gets me about the issue, the same state that overwhelmingly supported Obama, also voted to ban gay marriage and voted against not sending non-violent drug offenders to prison.

It goes to show that most of the voters are still a bunch of sheople.

I have a (possibly innapropriate) question that I would like the pro-prop 8 people to answer.

How many times has a gay man walked up to you on the street and asked you if you have felt the joys of gay love?

An odd question? Perhaps, but valid. I've never had it happen to me. Yet, I have lost count of the number of times some complete stranger has walked up to me and asked if I have been 'saved'.....

I have to agree that the only reason anyone would have an objection to same sex marraiges is from a religious standpoint. "Gawd said it was bahd, umkay." Jeez loise.

I wonder how they would feel if the homosexuals passed a law that said straight people couldn't marry, I think attitudes would change dramatically.

This whole Prop 8 thing is ridiculous. It is, literally, one groups attempt at trying to rule the lives of another. Period. One thing I never get about these people, is that 'God' supposedly gave men the freedom to choose how to live their lives, yet his most devout followers routinely go out of their way to tell other people what to do and how to live. That's why Prop 8 is not only wrong from a constitutional point of veiw, but a religious one. Truly devout religious people should be pissed off. If freedom is a 'god given right', and you try to take that right from people, who's the one going down to the brimestone basement? Y'all will be right there with all the homosexuals, and they'll be shaking your hands on the way in.

Chrono