US Military.... why?

Hello all.

I've decided to start a thread based off of the stuff I've read on several other threads on this site. I am sick of seeing the bashing going on in other places about the US military and how we all supposedly act and treat other human beings.

I want your opinions. I want to know what you really think about the US military, why you think that way and what kind of encounter you've had with us to back your point up.

This isn't supposed to be a flame thread, and although I'm passionate about this subject, I will refrain from unleashing my rants on my own thread. So...

Again, tell me what you think, why you think that way and provide me with either PERSONAL EXPERIENCES or FACTS to give weight to your side of the issue.

Thanks.

I believe you may be a mind reader.. I was actually contemplating starting a thread exactly like this one when I clicked recent posts and there this one was at the very top. Seeing as how this thread will most likely be bombarded very quickly with anti-military sentiment, I will go ahead and be one of the few to disagree with what I am sure will be the majority.

I think it takes a special kind of person to join the military, it's not for everyone. Some because they can't handle the training or lifestyle, others because they don't have that personality trait that makes them want to be a part of something larger than themselves. And some, frankly, are just cowards. As I have stated in numerous other threads, I know a lot of people in the military and have been in myself once upon a time. I have seen first hand the kind of people who enlist and none of them come close to the brain-washed, puppy-killing, murdering rapist label attached to them by some members of this board. Some of the kindest, most intelligent people I have ever met were in the military or were retired vets.

I have nothing against the people in the military, many of my friends are in the military, against my wishes, and a lot of people are dying right now so that our government can be fulfilled in whatever agenda they have. I have so much respect for our soldiers.

My fundamental problem with the military is their use of brainwashing against their own men, when otherwise good Americans are torturing Middle Eastern people in secret prisons or firing on civilians in the streets I believe it has a lot to do with brainwashing and desensitizing. I don't like it how the soldiers are used as pawns to carry out our government's plans be them legitimate or not. I don't like the fact that my friend recently came back from Afghanistan and wasn't the same person anymore and I could tell he would never be the same again.

I also don't like that they prey on mostly poor people from low income families, and minorities, giving them thousands of dollars to join. My friend was promised that he wouldn't be sent anywhere outside of the US and after he signed up and went through boot camp they told him he was going to Afghanistan to drive gasoline trucks over the border to Iraq.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

Honestly, great idea for a thread i mean that.
The other one we were on was getting stale and off topic.
I'm starring and flagging you.

let me just make this quick....
I posted a blog a while back on my myspace page of a personal experience.

I'll provide the link and you can check it out, it has pics too! I'll set the privacy levels of my blog, and that should allow you to view, if not, you may have to add me as a friend on myspace. Yeah I know, I don't like it either...

If you still can't view it, it will have to wait til later on, i have to take off pretty soon.

here's the link to my blog

I have more personal experiences too, but this one is the most well documented.
Read the comments at the bottom too, someone else on their had a similar experience and mentioned it.

be back late tonite...

-Liquid

reply to post by Jenna


I've been in about 7 years and am in charge of about 8 soldiers. These guys, plus the ones I was with in Iraq and my last units, I would do anything for. They were some real quality people.

Most of the people I work with have college degrees, families and a life outside of the Army. People who don't realize that we're people too are a detriment to society. I just think this is reminiscent of what the guys coming back from Vietnam had to go through - these people bashing on the forums are the offspring and carry-overs from that highly immature generation of the "flower power" and "hell no we won't go" generation. They blame the military and the soldiers and don't stop to think..... "If I hadn't voted a certain leader in, these guys wouldn't be at war right now."

lol

It's sad, really. I'm probably staying in until about 2014, then going to the FBI once I'm through with my degree. Wonder if these people have gotten close to their goals and dreams? Or if they're flippin burgers somewhere because they're too lazy to actually put forth effort to be better citizens?

reply to post by mf_luder


That's part of what saddens me.. For some reason many people, here specifically, have come to the conclusion that only the lowest of the low are in the military. They honestly believe that only brainwashed felons are in the military, or that all military members are robots. They fail to realize that each and every person who is in the military is a human being with hopes, dreams, families, friends, and have good and bad parts to their personality. No one is perfect. Yes the military represents us to an extent, but they are still people and some people do really bad things. One persons screw up should not reflect on the rest of the military no more than one persons ignorance on this website should reflect on the rest of the members here.


Edit to say: I think we've scared everyone off already.. Oops!!

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Jenna]

I found the soldiers in the Army to lack social skills, educational pedigree, hygiene awareness and had poor financial skills - especially with their own money...

And despite knowing this then & now, I still can't think of a better group of individuals to protect the homeland...not once did I regret enlisting nor worry about putting it on the line with these people...yes, there will always be a few bad apples, but the atrocities that occur on the civilian side are ten fold of what happens inside the military.

I have more fond memories of my time in the military than my time on the block...

Ok - I here is my experience with a recent vet.

A young family moved in and rented the place across the street.

At first, when I looked at the guy I was little leary I will admit because of the tattoos rolling up and down his arms and legs. It gave him the appearance that he could be a rough customer if he wanted.

But, he was very soft spoken and respectful when he spoke. It was clear he loved his wife and son very much. I got to know him a bit.

I called him my friend for 2 years before his wife's dad got sick and they moved to be near him. I can just tell you of the man.

He was just out - a few tours as combat infrantry in Iraq.

I only heard him use one curse word in 2 years. That was to describe the army's supply line when they said he and the men he was with were too far out and it was too dangerous to get food to them. He ate bugs, snakes and lizards after the MRE's ran out before they got back to where the supplies would run.

The army must not pay too good after they get out. He was going to union school to learn to be an electrician, he worked a regular job, he did any odd job he could find too. Aound the neighbhood he would mow lawns, install lighting, fix things, move things. He worked his tail off to provide for his family.

He had a puppy and he and his son would play with it in the yard. He gave the apperance he had been through a lot and could handle anything. But he did crack once that I saw. I'll even tell you that too as it gives more insight.

One morning the puppy got hit by a car. I saw it. It was right in front of my house. It had came to vist my dog. The car never stopped.

He bit his lip and tears rolled down his face when I told him. He buried his little puppy and put up a little cross he made with it's name on it and leaned the pup's favorite toy against it. Then he cried his eyes out. So did I.

They moved shortly after that when his wife's dad got sick.

Since this thread is supposed to based on personal experince with recent military members I've shared my closest one.

My thoughts - I'm proud to have called him my friend. He is a damn good man in a world were damn good men are too rare.

My opinon, like any large barrel there are bound to be a few bad apples. Most are good though and some are outstanding examples any of us should be proud of.




[edit on 4-11-2008 by Frogs]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Frogs]

Star for you.

Thanks for posting that - it actually brought tears to my eyes... no joke. A lot of the people I've worked with are just like that - not the insane caricatures of people we are made out to be.

The attacks on the military, the opinion of folks about the military are centuries old.

There was a time when the warrior class ruled, and in that time, not a lot of criticism as one can imagine.

A man with nothing more than courage, a strong right arm and skill of arms could work up and lead entire armies.

Our current society is increasingly consisting of more and more wimps, who are more susceptible to the influences of intelligensia, and academia, who themselves are mega-wimps.

These pampered, idealistic, politically motivated wimps want a permanent perch on high moral ground. But they refuse to recognize whose shoulders they stand on, whose actions enable and sustain their lofty positions.

These folks are fearful. They are professional fear-mongers - who can find fear in every endeavor, every choice, every opportunity, and even every success.

But most of all, they fear a man who can and will - fight.

They don't like fighters. Fighters scare them, as a fighter will shove his carefully acquired pansy-generated academia credentials right up his kazoo, and with sufficient force to break his foot off in this looser than normal kazoo.

Now, exactly where do you find the greatest concentrations of . . . fighters?

Because of their fear, this is exactly what they will criticize. Not with honesty, accuracy, prudence, or decorum. It's the fear that drives them.

Stonewall Jackson suggested, "Take no counsel of your fears." The emphasis was on "counsel." What sets soldiers apart is that they will ever face what requires fear - with courage.

Fear leads to hesitation. Hesitation is ruin. Hesitation is another word for cowardice. Cowardice is another word for prey. Prey is another word for dead. To a skilled and determined pursuer, the prey always goes to the hunter.

That's the reason for the criticism. Those that criticize? These men and women are cowards of the highest order - men who despite often glowing, clever oratory, are only interested in their own safety; miserable creatures of opportunity whose very positions of elevation are enabled by standing on the broad shoulders of those they perceive as beneath them, but whose very courage, exertions, dedication, and blood sustain their lofty position.

"That which you fear is truly undefeatable. Not by its nature or overwhelming power, but by your own choosing. What you believe impossible or unbeatable, so it is." Edicts of Ares Michael Riggs

As warriors and brothers of warriors, we cannot concern ourselves with the hens cackling behind the chicken wire - rather our ears should be tuned to the sound of the bugle.

We have to go. We don't have to come back.

Those others? Pity them. Their cowardice will not permit them to go.

What do they miss? You know that a man can often do more living in fifteen minutes of combat than most folks do their entire lives.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by dooper]

I was enlisted in the Corps from 98-01 , during my time in I've made friends , brothers and share a bond with them that isn't understood by most people. It takes a certain kind of person to do the job that they (all services) do. It also takes alot of sacrifice and dedication. It's easy to sit back smugly and judge our people in the military and monday morning quarterback things you read in the ticker scroling along the bottom of the screen on CNN HLN. War is something no one should have to go through , It takes a toll on the soul and the taking of lives in most cases leads to some sort of PTSD The fact remains that someone needs to do the job should we have to go to war. Do I agree with the wars we are in?.... Absolutely not.... Do I support my brothers and sisters overseas?... 100%

a few of my favorite USCM quotes...



"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"

Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945.



"Marines are about the most peculiar breed of human beings I have ever witnessed. They treat their service as if it were some kind of cult, plastering their emblem on almost everything they own, making themselves up to look like insane fanatics with haircuts ungentlemanly short, worshipping their Commandant almost as if he were a god, and making weird animal noises like a band of savages. They will fight like rabid dogs at the drop of a hat just for the sake of a little action and are the cockiest SOB's I have ever known. Most have the foulest mouths and drink well beyond a man's normal limits. But, their high spirits and sense of brotherhood set them apart and generally speaking the United States Marines I have come in contact with are the most professional soldiers and the finest men I have had the pleasure to meet."

Anonymous Canadian Citizen 1969.

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


SEMPER FIDELIS
Cpl/0231
1998-2001
3rd Battalion
3rd Marines
3rd Mar Div

When I first started reading this post, I thought that there would be a lot of ignorance posted. But, I was proved wrong. Most of the replies have been great. I am a retired Marine. My sister is currently serving in the US Army, currently in AIT training to become a combat medic. Upon arrival to AIT, she was informed that after graduation, half of her class would be going to Afghanistan, and half would be going to Iraq. Do I agree with reasons given for the fighting going on in the Middle East? Do I agree with reasons given for the combat that I was in a number of years ago? To both, No. But, do I support my brothers and sisters (in all brances of the service) that are over there fighting, have been over there fighting, or will go over there to fight? You're damn right I do.

Good question. Do I agree with us fighting overseas right now?

I look at it this way. It's much easier to fight an enemy on his territory than inside your own gates.

The very fact that our troops - yes - those unbelievers that Muslims must kill - are in Afghanistan and Iraq, enables the bulk of those hotheads to make their way there and fulfill the second greatest pillar is Islam.

I think it's much, much better to have a lot of them hiding in caves over there, avoiding direct contact as much as possible, than have them training openly, in great numbers, and making their way over here.

I fought my war. My enemies were not determined specifically by me. So is the lot of a soldier. Our American soldiers have bled on every populated continent.

That's the problem with power. You can't abuse it just because you have it, but you can't shy away from its use when prudence requires action. I mean, if you're the only adult in a kindergarten class and the kids go ballistic, fighting, throwing things, even though they aren't your offspring, you can't just stand by and let the bigger kids beat the hell out of the smaller, more peaceful kids.

So you take off your belt, go in a swinging and a whopping! A stupid analogy for sure, but I think you get the idea.

I do hope the very best for you and yours.

Raised in a good, conservative Christian family, the potential conflict between the more gentle teachings of Christianity and the military requirements for just the opposite created a bit of a subtle, internal conflict.

Just as I was leaving to go to combat, my Dad pulled me aside and told me, "Son - you do what you have to do to come home. Whatever it takes."

What a relief to hear those words.

Those are good words for any generation of military.

I'm impressed with the number of good replies you have all given. Frankly, I think the main reason there wasn't nearly as much soldier-bashing on this thread as others is because I asked people to provide facts and personal experiences. Takes more effort to back up your opinion than to just put it out there, right?

Liquid - I still need you to shoot me a U2U w/ your URL so I can send a friend request to read that blog. If that doesn't pan out - you're more than welcome to email a copy of it to me and I'll provide you a working email address.

I'm interested to see if and where this thread keeps going. Good supporters so far, but I haven't seen the raving mad lunatics come out and start barking yet. Must be the elections.... everyone is off watching tv. lol

Happing threading.

I was in the army. Most of the people I was in there with were just normal folks, not the gungho clowns you see on TV. In fact, we usually made fun of those guys. You'd have to do a 5 mile run, and they would be out there in combat boots and crap to show off how "motivated" they were etc.

Best way to support the troops is to bring them home and make sure they are defending this country, rather than being off fighting wars for the profits of corporations.

I'm am currently in the Corps, and can't wait to get out. Don't get me wrong, the Marine Corps is great organization, and I would not trade or take back the experience I have had in my so far 3 yrs, but It is ultimatley not the carrer I want, I have personal higher aspirations that are just non-military.

I joined for so many different reasons, I could only come to the conclusion that this was what I was supposed to do. It turns into a family before you know it, and for anyone that has been deployed knows that the people you are around everyday ARE family, and you learn to love your family no matter what.

As far as the government having a huge chunk of my life in their hands, it kind of sucks. Yea there are some perks, but I always had feeling of less freedom. Political correctness is like a disease that spreads throughout every branch, and it gets frustrating. Overall the military can be either a just another job or a way of life.

Semper fi.

I decided to join the Corps before I was even old enough to join the Corps. The incident that caused me to decide was the Beirut bombing that killed 200 and something Marines. I can still recall the tears streaming down my face as I watched on tv fellow Marines work hard to save their brothers trapped in the rubble. I remember one that turned to the camera and you could see the tears in his eyes as well as the shallow look of disbelief. I swore that I would join the Corps and get revenge for this cowardly act. When I was of age, I joined. I served for 4 years. I got out because I also had higher aspirations. I left the Corps but the Corps has never left me. I breathe it as if I was still there and instill many of the same things I learned in my children. The folks I met in the Corps came from all walks of life and in reality were just simple folks. But more than that they were and are my brothers. No matter if it was I starting a fight with three people in a bar or digging fox holes in the sands of Saudi Arabia, someone always had my back. They took care of me and I took care of them. That is something I don't have as much in this community. I can't trust my neighbors or my relatives as I could my fellow Marines. There are many a times that I wish I was still in the Corps.

People always ask me what the military is like. And I always tell them it is hard to describe. You have to be in the military in order to understand. Many don't buy that. War is hell and sometimes members of the military do things that the rest of the world sees as unjust. And maybe it is unjust. However, the reality is that it is your life against theirs and sometimes decisions have to be made in the spur of the moment. I rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. And the military doesn't brainwash you. It gives you the inspiration to strive for things that you once thought was impossible. There were many times that I disobeyed people in charge of me. Sometimes I got disciplined for it and sometimes they let me off cause I was in the right. Someone in charge of you does not have the right to make you do things that are unlawful. Whether it be a justified war or an unjustified war, I will always stand by our military. They are the main reason I am able to post this on this site without worrying that I will be locked up for my opinions.

Hoooorrrrrrraaaahhhhhhhh!

Semper Fi Mac

Originally posted by Shocka
I have nothing against the people in the military, many of my friends are in the military, against my wishes, and a lot of people are dying right now so that our government can be fulfilled in whatever agenda they have. I have so much respect for our soldiers.

My fundamental problem with the military is their use of brainwashing against their own men, when otherwise good Americans are torturing Middle Eastern people in secret prisons or firing on civilians in the streets I believe it has a lot to do with brainwashing and desensitizing. I don't like it how the soldiers are used as pawns to carry out our government's plans be them legitimate or not. I don't like the fact that my friend recently came back from Afghanistan and wasn't the same person anymore and I could tell he would never be the same again.

I also don't like that they prey on mostly poor people from low income families, and minorities, giving them thousands of dollars to join. My friend was promised that he wouldn't be sent anywhere outside of the US and after he signed up and went through boot camp they told him he was going to Afghanistan to drive gasoline trucks over the border to Iraq.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Shocka]

Your friend drove tanker trucks across the border from Afghanistan to Iraq? Tell me something, how did he do that without going through Iran? I believe you just made up your friend to justify your arguement.

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


Ha! I knew you just had a bad experience and decided that all military personnel are like that. Just like the guy who hates all minorities because he had a few bad experiences with some.

reply to post by jam321

Amen to that. I was in the Army, SF, two Ranger companies, and combat attached to the First Cav.

Everything in my life is pre-Army or post-Army.

You can leave the military, but if you bought in, even for a moment, it won't leave you.

I have men that are just as close, and in many ways closer than my own blood brothers.

We were never defeated. Only killed.