The Flip Side to Greer

(from some youtube thing called "Orian and Aero")

Greer is set on the aliens being peaceful. He's set on the government essentially being evil and representing the evil, warmongering side of humanity. He holds that this aggressive stance turns off the aliens, and that they'd like to make contact, but want it on peaceful terms.

I think both debators here are way off and have oversimplified. His opponent made the simple argument, why would aliens take an interest in a bunch of monkeys fighting each other? Greer agrees with noted exception that "not everyone" wants war. Well, I think both are very naive here, because the "humans as animals" analogy makes them amoral, not immoral. How angry are we at the stingray that ended the life of the Crocodile Hunter? The life and death cycle of the amazon rainforest is both fascinating and horrifying at the same time. There is very real reason to 1) believe aliens would take an interest in a planet full of very diversified and complex life forms no matter what the "faults" might be. 2) There is reason to believe aliens would not necessarily be offended by military action against them, rather, they'd most likely understand that life is a terrible thing most of the time, evolution didn't happen without bloody teeth, and there are good reasons for humans to want to protect themselves. Just as we understand animals defending themselves.

So the case for no contact at all on grounds that we're too barbaric I think is vastly overstated. And I also think the argument for "peaceful" contact the way Greer describes is flawed. If war represents a flawed side of humanity, so do the traits that drive people into weird cults and religions where they have to "have faith" and use their "spiritual consciousness" and when it comes down to it, complete credulity in order to impress the visitors. Why would the aliens want a contact base of essentially, religious fanatics given the track record of religious fanaticism in the world?

I have to agree with you on the oversimplifyng things.
First let me say I quite like Steven Greer, I think his years and years of trying to expose the ET and Advanced Technology coverups have gotten him a bit tired of such an approach, he is now going straight for the throat with the Orion Project

I agree that some of his views are a bit simplistic and certainly naive, but his intentions are in the right place I think?^_^

reply to post by sidewinderX


If you want any information from Mr Greer, you are going to have to pay for it. He charges a lot of money for people to see his proof, and they have to sign non disclosure forms. Is this what disclosure is going to be? You can have it for several hundred dollars?

The guy is a blight upon UFO research...I didn't know just how bad until I went to see him speak in person. The crap he spewed I found not only to be the biggest load of crap I ever heard, but was a personal insult to intelligence.

Yet another one who's done more harm then good.

Originally posted by jritzmann
The guy is a blight upon UFO research...I didn't know just how bad until I went to see him speak in person. The crap he spewed I found not only to be the biggest load of crap I ever heard, but was a personal insult to intelligence.

Yet another one who's done more harm then good.

For example?

reply to post by Outlawstar


-is working with a EU nation on disclosure (but won't name them, or provide any proof whatsoever)

-has wreckage from UFO being analyzed (but cant talk about it)

-is involved with analysis of an alien "baby" complete with photos (but cant talk about it or provide any photos, documentation or proof of any sort)

-claimed to have biked 400 miles in one day with a severe infection (claimed urine was "the color of root beer") and subsequently had a near death experience. No hospital visit, was healed by "aliens" and told to start disclosure project.

-Said that abduction experiencers were not interacting with a non human intelligence, but with military built craft and military built robot aliens. He, however, was in contact with the real aliens. (This one really boiled my blood, as he first makes a grand claim, then subsequently marginalizes everyone else's experience...not knowing what others experience whatsoever. Most irresponsible thing I've ever heard...also the biggest load of crap.

You can go on and on with this guy. His claims are endless and his proof is vapor. What sickens me is the amount of people with so much faith in him, and elevate him to some hero status. He's a master of excuses and statements that could be taken as very weighty or absolutely nothing. He leaves a lot to your imagination, and takes full advantage of it.

Like any of us should be surprised. This field has always been rife with people like him.

Originally posted by jritzmann
reply to post by Outlawstar

 

-is working with a EU nation on disclosure (but won't name them, or provide any proof whatsoever)

-has wreckage from UFO being analyzed (but cant talk about it)

-is involved with analysis of an alien "baby" complete with photos (but cant talk about it or provide any photos, documentation or proof of any sort)

-claimed to have biked 400 miles in one day with a severe infection (claimed urine was "the color of root beer") and subsequently had a near death experience. No hospital visit, was healed by "aliens" and told to start disclosure project.

-Said that abduction experiencers were not interacting with a non human intelligence, but with military built craft and military built robot aliens. He, however, was in contact with the real aliens. (This one really boiled my blood, as he first makes a grand claim, then subsequently marginalizes everyone else's experience...not knowing what others experience whatsoever. Most irresponsible thing I've ever heard...also the biggest load of crap.

You can go on and on with this guy. His claims are endless and his proof is vapor. What sickens me is the amount of people with so much faith in him, and elevate him to some hero status. He's a master of excuses and statements that could be taken as very weighty or absolutely nothing. He leaves a lot to your imagination, and takes full advantage of it.

Like any of us should be surprised. This field has always been rife with people like him.

Hmm, intersting, didint know that, while he has done some good work in general, he does seem to be pushing it with his excuses and stories.
Thanks for that!

Originally posted by jritzmann
The guy is a blight upon UFO research...I didn't know just how bad until I went to see him speak in person. The crap he spewed I found not only to be the biggest load of crap I ever heard, but was a personal insult to intelligence.

Yet another one who's done more harm then good.

I hear ya Jeff! I just wish everyone else would too - but your right - for unfathomable reasons many people including members here at ATS elevate him to hero status without any proof to justify their POV except a feeling in their bones that he is right, and fighting the good fight... and they defend him to the hilt.. kinda like the GFL'ers defended Blossom Goodchild.

Go figure!

Steven Greer: UFOlogy's Own Worst Enemy

I'll get ready for some flames of religious fervor from Cult Greer now!

IRM

In my personal oppinion Mr. Greer is a complete fraud, just a more qualified male Blossom Goodchild.

Quite why people are so desperate to believe that they are taken in by these fancies baffles me.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by sidewinderX

 

If you want any information from Mr Greer, you are going to have to pay for it. He charges a lot of money for people to see his proof, and they have to sign non disclosure forms. Is this what disclosure is going to be? You can have it for several hundred dollars?

whats that?..ive never heard that before...where are we supposed to pay?

reply to post by alienesque


Thats for one of his "outings" he calls "Diplomat Training". 800.00 last time I looked, and yes, a NDA must be signed, and all footage you might get belongs to CSETI...not you. You cant do a damned thing with it until they tell you.

Unmitigated B.S.

reply to post by alienesque


Check out his site and the registration fees:

www.cseti.org...

Also, there are non disclosure forms and you can pay $100,000 or more to become a lifetime member. A fool and his money is soon departed.

reply to post by kidflash2008



I cringe every time I read that NDA...I cannot believe that these things sell out...but they do. You go, pay the money, and that scumbag has rights to what you film. That's rich as hell.

You know what that form is all bout don't you? To keep critical-thinking intelligent people out. Because people who see thru that NDA can see thru Greer...and he doesn't want them around.

I guess there's more fools out there then we think my friends.

I think Dr. Greer was honest in his original attempt to bring Disclosure. BUT, something happened along the way. It seems like he just went off the deep end. The Disclosure Project originally was very good....but it's now a half-assed attempt to do what it was originally to do. I take everything from Dr. Greer with a grain of salt and a Xanax. Too bad...cause he had something going.

Originally posted by jritzmann
The guy is a blight upon UFO research...I didn't know just how bad until I went to see him speak in person. The crap he spewed I found not only to be the biggest load of crap I ever heard, but was a personal insult to intelligence.

Yet another one who's done more harm then good.

Even in an insignificant thread such as this one, we have to make a point to fling some excrement at poor Dr. Greer, jritzmann?

Dr. Steven Greer is a tremendously courageous leader, and has been fighting for us all for the past 18 years. You will see this before the end.

Have some FAITH, ritzmann!

Originally posted by Outrageo
reply to post by sidewinder, andre18, et al et al...

 

Please do yourself a favor and don't miss this one: Greer video where he talks about "Gay planets", levitating as a child, spaceship rides, and a whole bunch of uber-weird New Age Love-in stuff in L.A., Feb 2007

Hope you have lots of time and patience - at 1:47, this clip will rob you of both...

BTW - see that search button at the top of the page? Just type in "Greer Disclosure video" or anything similar and you will be inundated with threads that have everything you could ask for on this topic. Greer-watchers, both pro and con, have beat this dead horse in dozens of threads already...

Good luck.

p.s. Watch the video in the link I posted above without delay: Greerites are scouring the net trying to remove copies as fast as they are posted - you'll see why...

[edit on 11/6/2008 by Outrageo]

It's ridiculous, but sometimes I feel like I have to take people to detective school.

You can sit and listen to all the armchair debunkers who chant "UFO Watchdog, UFO Watchdog", or, you can be a detective and do what detectives do, and actually talk to people who know Dr. Steven Greer.

Nora Maccoby, Todd Hathaway, Tom Bearden, Dennis Kucinich, James Gilliland, people like that................

"Oh Yeah, Dr. Greer came here one time with a bunch of people, and they did some protocol thing, and a whole bunch of giant triangles in the sky came in and stuff, and oh yeah we filmed it, yeah here's the DVD JohnnyAnonymous....."

Radiant-Energy devices? For Real?

reply to post by GoldenAge


Yeah, he's courageous about sucking down people's cash, and spouting more B.S. then you can shake a stick at.

Faith, my friend, shouldn't even enter into this field. I know what Greer spoke from his own lips, right to my face. I don't need "faith" to tell me what the score is with him.

So how's that one DVD with the footage of the CSETI expedition, jritzmann? Is it any good....?

Oh, you mean you haven't got around to watching it yet?

My, the naysayers got quiet all of a sudden.

I just find it strange, because I watched my Greer CSETI Evidence DVDs as soon as I got them. Strange that ATS haven't watched theirs.

Your welcome ATS!

You mean people really are finding out about the radiant energy devices and the protocols to communicate with ET?

[edit on 7-11-2008 by GoldenAge]