The Enemy Within:US Female Soldiers Raped.

reply to post by poet1b


Once again and i'll even type it slower.


I....was....not....comparing....the.....crimes....i....was....comparing....
people's....reactions...to....the....crimes.


Thats a big and very important difference.

reply to post by lorehorrible

But please continue giving rapists excuses.

I think some people they don't see such BS as an excuse.They talk about it as if its totally acceptable.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by jakyll]

talk about double thinking

"rape is not ok but you have to bear in mind that this is something that happens in war and theres nothing we can do about it"

its just as absurd as to say

"i dont support the war but i support the soldiers there"

or

"what the nazis did to the jews is not even compareble to what the us soldiers did to the iraqie civilians"


killing and raping is still killing and raping no matter who does it or to whom.


i do find it quite ironic that spreading democracy involved killing civilians and raping your own ,

mabye its time you take a look in the mirror and think abit about what your acturly achiving.

instead of teaching your young how to survive in the desert wouldent it have been better to have keept em at home and taugth em a thing or two about life, living and what ist like to realy wake up in the morning and go to work,

oh i forgot you spent all your budget on war mongering instead of building a nation that acturly does something usefull for its inhabbitants.


im sorry but each day that goes by i cant help but to notice that nation that gave us pinball machines and pinup girls is loosing its flare.

get a grip and pull yourself together

you can always argue that there will always be bad apples in a bunch, but thouse rotten apples wouldent have been there in the first place would you have had the budget to sort em out in the first place.

in conclution ,

in a couple of hours im gonna go upp and finish building my roof because winter is coming and its freezing cold here in the arctic, while im hammering away ill visualize that my roof is a voodo doll and all the nails that go in will do harm to thouse that has done harm.

sincierly Zerbot565

Originally posted by zerbot565
its just as absurd as to say

"i dont support the war but i support the soldiers there"

or

"what the nazis did to the jews is not even compareble to what the us soldiers did to the iraqie civilians"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in conclution ,

in a couple of hours im gonna go upp and finish building my roof because winter is coming and its freezing cold here in the arctic, while im hammering away ill visualize that my roof is a voodo doll and all the nails that go in will do harm to thouse that has done harm.

sincierly Zerbot565

I'll bypass the atrocious spelling.

First, supporting the soldiers but not supporting the war IS possible. I'm sorry you can't see that far past the end of your nose. We go to war based on the fact that the US Government tell us to go - NOT - because all of us DECIDE to go. (For the people who point out we're all volunteer as a strike against us... hell with you). You don't get tot sit there and tell me that we're all evil because of the war the legitimate government of the US propagated.

As for the second half of my quote from you.... are you really that sick in the head? Voodoo, for real? Grow up.

reply to post by lorehorrible


I think you meant to add a comment or two on what I had said, but all that is in your post is a quote of mine. What was it that you meant to say?

reply to post by jakyll


Actually, I said that. lore quoted my entire post, but didn't add anything to it of their own. Probably hit the post reply button before they meant to.

Originally posted by mf_luder

Originally posted by zerbot565
its just as absurd as to say

"i dont support the war but i support the soldiers there"

or

"what the nazis did to the jews is not even compareble to what the us soldiers did to the iraqie civilians"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in conclution ,

in a couple of hours im gonna go upp and finish building my roof because winter is coming and its freezing cold here in the arctic, while im hammering away ill visualize that my roof is a voodo doll and all the nails that go in will do harm to thouse that has done harm.

sincierly Zerbot565

I'll bypass the atrocious spelling.

First, supporting the soldiers but not supporting the war IS possible. I'm sorry you can't see that far past the end of your nose. We go to war based on the fact that the US Government tell us to go - NOT - because all of us DECIDE to go. (For the people who point out we're all volunteer as a strike against us... hell with you). You don't get tot sit there and tell me that we're all evil because of the war the legitimate government of the US propagated.

As for the second half of my quote from you.... are you really that sick in the head? Voodoo, for real? Grow up.

I really think people who have no experience with the military believe that soldiers can just back out and separate if they don't believe in the war they are fighting. The truth is, if war breaks out, the government puts a "stop-loss" in effect and no one can leave unless they are medically separating or have been kicked out for getting in trouble. If that had happened the day before my separation, I would still be enlisted until the order is lifted. It actually happened while I was still active duty. After we started on Baghdad in 98 (i could be wrong on the time frame so don't jump on that). No one was able to separate in many career fields. So those who were supposed to be civilians again would essentially no longer be "volunteers" in the service. AWOL or desertion would apply if they tried to leave. So, there is no choice in the wars our soldiers fight- they go when they are ordered. If they choose "conscientious objector" status they will be subject to court martial and may go to prison. No choice. So it is reasonable to support your troops and not the war without feeling you sold your soul.

reply to post by jakyll

It astounds me that women join the military at all. It's not just enlisted women who get raped. Women officers get raped as often or more, then don't report it to avoid being drummed out. A humongous tragedy.

I got my first taste of the true culture of the military at MCRD San Diego when while still in boot camp, out of town civilian cops took a fellow recruit away during morning PT. He joined up to escape a rape beef in his home town and apparently never heard of computers.

Later, two gang bangers from south central LA were taken by civilian cops as well. I didn't even know they were gang bangers. They were charming, funny guys. They were taken away for suspicion of murder. I was one of the few recruits who had never been to jail. Tons of people who join are running away from something.

I know there are patriots too. I considered myself one. But there are a LOT more who are not even close, and plenty are officers.

reply to post by raven bombshell


The same thing happened to us during the invasion and in the years following - a stop loss was put into effect to maintain unit strength and density so we didn't have a bunch of people leaving to go to new units and get out of the army.

Glad to see we're in agreement - star for you.

[edit on 8-11-2008 by mf_luder]

It would be a beautiful thing if no one ever got hurt, if no one ever hurt anyone, if no one ever raped anyone, if no one ever murdered anyone, but that ain't reality.

If all rapes, all crimes, are bad things that people do could be prevented, it would be a great thing, but no one has yet to come with that solution.

The military isn't any different than anyother organization, as has been proved on this thread. Rape is something that occurs in all organizations, and most are not very adequate in dealing with such circumstances. Heck, rapes in most common within families, friends, and associates. Maybe we should all stop participating in these types of organizations as well. Do you who love to criticize others all think that this would be a good idea?

Originally posted by Mean Red Spider
reply to post by jakyll

 

It astounds me that women join the military at all. It's not just enlisted women who get raped. Women officers get raped as often or more, then don't report it to avoid being drummed out. A humongous tragedy.

Well ,the recruiters don't warn you about stuff like this, so a starry eyed 18 year old with dreams of being a pilot, nurse, accountant (hahaha), really anything, can see their dreams come true. People who cant afford college join to get the tuition assistance and GI Bill. A lot of young women are convinced they will get opportunities through enlistment (or as officers) that they don't have in the civilian world. I actually entered training as an avionics specialist, working on stealth electrical components. They had a shortage of women in the field and my ASVAB scores were high enough in the right areas to get me in. I did well in tech school and I stayed out of trouble, yet I was kicked out of school and forced to reclassify into finance. Coincidentally, I was the only active duty female in the class and therefore the only female that could be thrown out by the teacher's recommendation. It happened. There were several male students who were failing tests who did not get kicked out. I had good scores- not just passing. The teacher was always calling me out and ridiculing me in class, too. I really should not have gotten any attention because I was a just in there, taking notes and behaving myself. The "boys" didn't want me in their career field, and there was nothing I could do about it. That was in 1992, not the 70s, either. They didn't tell me in the recruiters office that I would probably not make it through my avionics school due to bigotry, of course. THey had a quota to fill.

I'm not sure if anyone has already made this connection yet, but look at it here. in a gang, things happen to your head, the same things that happen to a soldier's head, but generally the soldier has the thought that what he's doing is justified. A gangster rapes a woman, no one thinks anything odd of it, he's a gangbanger, big deal, he goes to jail. Now a soldier does it, he's been deprived of things that he should have, both mentally and physically, he's got the problems with his head, and while it's not morally right, it's a prefect formula for rape/sexual assault.
Any one who has ever shot someone, or used any other type of deadly force on someone will know the feelings I'm speaking of. I have talked to people who have been convicted of rape, and they always have that anger that's just below the surface, these are also guys who are usually well controlled, but once whatever it is that sets them off does so, all that anger explodes out of them, and what better to soothe anger than sex? I'm not in anyway trying to justify rape/sexual assault, I was actually nearly arrested for defending a friend who was sexually assaulted, but I'm trying to give some perspective, and to make a connection that may not have been brought up before.

reply to post by Kiltedninja

and what better to soothe anger than sex?

Rape isn't sex.Its a violation.

Sex is consensual.Rape is against your will.

Do you understand these differences??

Originally posted by poet1b Heck, rapes in most common within families, friends, and associates.

MOST families? Most friends? My god, if that is normal in your world your "friends and family" are really messed up.

Seriously, I do not know what "culture" you come from but rape is NOT common in most families and among most friends in the U.S.

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Sonya610]

I know the difference, but I'm saying that that is the possible thoughts of a rapist.

reply to post by Sonya610


Actually, when I posted this, I messed up on my grammar. I was too much of a hurry I guess.

What I meant to say is, rapes are most common within families, friends, and associates.

This isn't from my observation or a reflection on my friends or family. No one in my family, nor anyone I have ever known as a friend has ever raped anyone, or even been convicted of a serious crime.

This statement is based on statistical facts. A woman who gets raped will most likely be raped by someone she knows, a friend, acquaintenance, or even a family member.

www.rainn.org...

Almost 2/3 of rapes were committed by someone known to the victim.
73% of sexual assaults were perpetrated by a non-stranger.
38% of rapists are a friend or acquaintance.
28% are an intimate.
7% are a relative.

Here are some other statistics to give a better picture of the nature of the problem.

www.rainn.org...

I looked for some numbers on what percentage of the male population commits rape, but couldn't find any numbers. I would be very curious to know what percentage of males turn out to be rapists. From my experience in life, a very small percentage of men are rapists. Most rapists are serial rapists.

Originally posted by poet1b
It would be a beautiful thing if no one ever got hurt, if no one ever hurt anyone, if no one ever raped anyone, if no one ever murdered anyone, but that ain't reality.

If all rapes, all crimes, are bad things that people do could be prevented, it would be a great thing, but no one has yet to come with that solution.

The military isn't any different than anyother organization, as has been proved on this thread. Rape is something that occurs in all organizations, and most are not very adequate in dealing with such circumstances. Heck, rapes in most common within families, friends, and associates. Maybe we should all stop participating in these types of organizations as well. Do you who love to criticize others all think that this would be a good idea?

Makes too much sense. Get out of this thread.

raven bombshell

I really think people who have no experience with the military believe that soldiers can just back out and separate if they don't believe in the war they are fighting.

I think there's a lot of people out there who think that soldiers should face a court martial for disobeying orders rather then fight in a war they don't believe in.




Mean Red Spider

It astounds me that women join the military at all.

Its been mentioned on here,can't remember by who,that women have been involved in fighting battles and wars for 1000's of years.So its not surprising that women want to join up.




Kiltedninja

I know the difference, but I'm saying that that is the possible thoughts of a rapist.

Normal men don't get angry and think,'oh,i know,i'll go and let off steam by brutally raping a woman.' Rape is about power,control,fear and degredation.

I know, I'm not talking about normal men, I'm talking about the ones that are severely f--ked in the head. If you paid attention to the rest of what I was saying, the post says that these are the people who've been killing, and have faced the trauma that generally accompanies it, not just some random pissed off dude. There's no way a sane person can commit an act such as rape.

I know, I'm not talking about normal men, I'm talking about the ones that are severely f--ked in the head. If you paid attention to the rest of what I was saying, the post says that these are the people who've been killing, and have faced the trauma that generally accompanies it, not just some random pissed off dude. There's no way a sane person can commit an act such as rape.

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by IAF101
Rape in the military is not like rape in the civilian world. So stop preaching.

Wasn't aware that calling you on a chauvinistic comment was preaching.

It is preaching when you dont know what the hell you are talking about and are merely regurgitating some PC feminist drivel.

Originally posted by Jenna
A moments indiscretion? Really? You call rape a moments indiscretion? You can't be serious. Anyone who will force someone else into a sexual act, yes I mean rape, is a crazy sicko who needs a head check.

Yes a "moments indiscretion" in a totally chaotic situation under extreme stress. Those "crazy sickos" are exactly what it takes to charge into a room where a bunch of insurgents are going to spray you with Ak's or blow your Humvee with IED's and do it all over again the next day. Day in and day out because that is your job. Your "normal" doesnt cut it.
Rape can occur in various situations in the military but generally it is during these high stress chaotic environments. One cant treat civilian rape situations on par with these rape situations. There are many factors that makes everyday stand up guys do very crazy things that they woundnt think of doing in the civilian world.

Originally posted by Jenna
A momentary indiscretion would be kissing a consenting adult when you are married to someone else. Forcing yourself upon someone just because you are strong enough to do it is not a momentary indiscretion. But please continue giving rapists excuses.

Kissing somebody ? Typical clueless drivel!
Do you think the soldiers are in some downtown bar where after a few rounds of shots they have a few moments of indiscretion ?? In those kinds of high stress environments it is more prey and hunter mentality not your dinner parties.

Originally posted by Jenna
Yet hundreds of thousands of men do it every day. Hundreds of thousands of men who are over-seas right now, and those who have been there and came back home, have made it through an entire tour or two or three and not raped anyone. Talk about broad sweeping generalizations.

Again, these are moments of indiscretion. These kind of situations are the exception rather than the norm. Do you see all married men cheat ? Most soldiers keep their heads about them but there are a lot who cant handle the pressure constructively. It is the reality of prolonged conflict. It is human nature which your feminist rhetoric would like to generalize as a "crime".

Take any prolonged deployment by any military force in the world and you will see these kind of "moments" be it Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan or any of the other conflict zones like Palestine, Kashmir, Africa, etc.

Originally posted by Jenna
Providing excuses for rapists is not insensitive? Perhaps you would like to ask someone who has been raped if that is insensitive. Of course I am probably asking too much of you there.

Again, you are just uttely clueless. This is not a rape in the civilian world, you cant treat them as such. Maybe if you actually served a tour or two and then talked you would understand how ludicrous your feminist drivel is . Rape in the military is a serious crime but it is taken in always taken in context. Commanders understand what their soldiers have gone through and punishments are meted out to fit the crime. They understand whst kind of soldiers their men are and what the circumstances are. not your clueless rhetoric would have the rest of us believe.

Originally posted by Jenna
Where did I generalize anything into a crime that is not, in fact, a crime? Rape is a crime. It is about the worst thing you can do to someone, whether you are in the military or not. Now where in that did I generalize something into a crime that isn't one? Please explain.

Worse, you generalized a very unfortunate situation affecting some of the bravest men in our country to fit your clueless feminist rhetoric to use as some propaganda against the military.

Originally posted by Jenna
So expecting men to behave like human beings is insensitive and chauvinistic but providing excuses for rapists is not? Really?

Men are behaving like human beings. THAT is what your dont seem to understand. I guess expecting anything more from someone who is so clueless about the realities of war and conflict is expecting too much. However let me say this, given the right set of circumstances, any man, ANY man can be made to do very bad things. It takes maturity and wisdom to see what the real problem is rather than blanket all these incidences as a vicious crime.