Did anyone know these 9/11 facts?

PNAC. You know, until 9/11, I never even heard of the damn thing. And you still dont hear about it in the news. But when I read it, before I came to ATS and was doing 9/11 research, I was bothered. PNAC= mondern day operation northwoods, I think.

Originally posted by Bout Time
This was the first time I heard of this. Thoughts and/or supporting links?

#1 � On the morning of September 11, 2001, NORAD was running war games involving hijacked airliners while the National Reconnaissance Offices (NRO) was running a drill for the scenario of an errant aircraft crashing into a government building at the exact same time as an identical scenario was perpetrated. The Air Force was in day two of annual drills testing all of its systems to respond to various threats.

globalresearch.ca...



Is this the perfect cover to what will come forward as 'stand down' orders, the further a real commision looks into 9/11?

Well let's see,

As regards #1
On the morning of 911, it was the CIA that was undergoing a simulated attack by air.

As regards who was responsible, and who allowed 911 to happen and why, I refer you to the following information.

" Why is this important? After all, wacky think tanks are a cottage industry
in Washington, DC. They are a dime a dozen. In what way does PNAC stand
above the other groups that would set American foreign policy if they could?
Two events brought PNAC into the mainstream of American government: the
disputed election of George W. Bush, and the attacks of September 11th.
When Bush assumed the Presidency, the men who created and nurtured the
imperial dreams of PNAC became the men who run the Pentagon, the Defense
Department and the White House. When the Towers came down, these men saw,
at long last, their chance to turn their White Papers into substantive
policy.

Vice President Dick Cheney is a founding member of PNAC, along with Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle.
Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz is the ideological father of the
group. Bruce Jackson, a PNAC director, served as a Pentagon official for
Ronald Reagan before leaving government service to take a leading position
with the weapons manufacturer Lockheed Martin.


PNAC is staffed by men who previously served with groups like Friends of
the Democratic Center in Central America, which supported America's bloody
gamesmanship in Nicaragua and El Salvador, and with groups like The
Committee for the Present Danger, which spent years advocating that a
nuclear war with the Soviet Union was "winnable."


PNAC has recently given birth to a new group, The Committee for the
Liberation of Iraq, which met with National Security Advisor Condoleezza
Rice in order to formulate a plan to "educate" the American populace about
the need for war in Iraq. CLI has funneled millions of taxpayer dollars to
support the Iraqi National Congress and the Iraqi heir presumptive, Ahmed
Chalabi. Chalabi was sentenced in absentia by a Jordanian court in 1992 to
22 years in prison for bank fraud after the collapse of Petra Bank, which
he founded in 1977. Chalabi has not set foot in Iraq since 1956, but his
Enron-like business credentials apparently make him a good match for the
Bush administration's plans."

continued here

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

What really irk's me is not so much that such an atrocity should happen, but that it is totally ignored by all but a few. Thanks to technology all this information is available to all. It is especially easy to access here in the USA, internet access is everywhere Starbucks, libraries, micro- breweries, etc.... But the simple fact prevails most of the population is concerned with sports, Homer Simpson, what's happening in Hollywood?
Crap, it is a apathetic revolution that is succeding. The ultimate goal is to " not give a flying excrement"




"There is no success like failure and failure is no success at alll" you guess WHO


TUTUTKAMEN

I think PNAC is sadly only even taken seriously by non-Republicans. If some group took over my party, inserted itself in the administration I voted for, and seemingly the stars aligned to make all thier think tank rhetoric happen in the first year, I'd be hopping mad.

This should be an issue for angry conservatives curious about the hijacking of their party IMO.

Ummm, Im kinda new here so i havnt seen all the post requarding 911, but i feel as tho i must speak my mind.
911 was an inside job.
It was a mass murder of americans to 'justify' going into Afgahnastan, and later Iraq.
I will not go into detail, but i will give you some links to start you on your journey.

physics911.org
wanttoknow.info
911timeline.net
whatreallyhappened.com

BTW-the first head of the commission investigating 911, Max Cleland, resigned saying
"The American people are being scammed"

[Edited on 29-3-2004 by aware]

1. NORAD always conducts wargames....that's what they do.

2. We knew Osama planned to use airliners into buildings as an attack. We knew this because an earlier attempt was thwarted (the one mentioned being from the Pacific side, not the Atlantic and about 2 years earlier if I remember right). So yes, it's natural that these scenarios would be viewed as real threats, even before 911...

Well let's see,

As far as their war games go, I suggest the American Public, especially those that lost people at the World Trade Center are due a large refund

"We knew Osama planned to use airliners into buildings as an attackny

Well according to sworn live testimony in front of a nation watching, the entier administration had no idea or conception that planes would be used as miseles against the U.S.. Which allows only two conclusions, 1-they are totally ignorant and should in no way be allowed to occupy their offices or 2-they are blatant liars that assume the entire population of the U.S. is more ignorant than they are.. This is still an open Forum so feel free to post where you stand. Are you ignorant or are you ignorant

This is a trick question

TUTUTKAMEN

See FOX for the answer

I didn't know about this either. The plot just keeps getting thicker and more peculiar, doesn't it?

I've gone to the PNAC site, read pieces written by members of that think-tank. I haven't run into any ideological problems with them in particular. Curious, those of you who feel that PNAC is all that evil and a bag of chips, what is your opinion of the group that has been driving our nation into the rocks for the last 50+ years; the CFR?

Well, In my unappreciated opinion PNAC are the sons and daughters of CFR handshe and their opinions and judgements will be followed for the next 50 years or longer as life span increases.

On the other hand she wore a glove

The apparent defection of former counter-terrorism official Richard Clarke is a propaganda coup for the Bush Regime. It is reminiscent of the old fable of the smart man who manages to elude a King�s scrutiny by smuggling wheel barrels past him in full view.

Let�s begin with a selection of facts:

1. In his book Painful Questions Eric Hufschmid points out that the World Trade Center rubble was quickly shipped out of New York City after 9-11 before proper examination by qualified investigators took place (Painful Questions, 2002, Eric Hufschmid).

2. Richard Clarke was designated �crisis manager� by Condoleezza Rice within minutes after the �second jetliner hit the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001� (Washington Post, 03/23/04, Eggen and Pincus). Although the mainstream media won�t inquire to know all that he was responsible for, presumably the decision to quickly sell the WTC rubble for scrap was on his to-do list.

3. Clarke writes a book (�Against All Enemies�) that states the top officials in the Bush Regime were immediately trying to link 9-11 to Iraq; while he was telling them it was �Al Qaeda� and made-to-order villain Osama bin Laden.

4. The White House controlled the book�s publication date, citing �national security� (Patrick Martin, 23 March 2004, WSWS.org).

5. The White House chose a date for Clarke�s book to be published shortly before its top officials would be testifying before the 911 Commission.

continued here

globalresearch.ca...

I thought those of you curious about the PNAC, or who think the US is not interested in global hegemony, might find this interesting. It's from an article on their site called "The Present Danger", written in 2000. The whole article is worth reading but this exerpt will give you an idea of their mindset,

pg.2
The task for America at the start of the 1990s ought to have been obvious. It was to guard this extraordinary international system from any threats that might challenge it. It was to prolong the period of relative stability and democratic progress as far into the future as possible. That meant, above all, preserving and reinforcing America's benevolent global hegemony, which undergirded what President George Bush rightly called a "new world order." The goal of American foreign policy should have been to turn Charles Krauthammer's "unipolar moment" into a unipolar era.

pg.6
Certainly, the dramatic shift in international strategic circumstances occasioned by the Soviet collapse requires a shift in the manner in which this goal is pursued. But it is not a shift to "normalcy." In the post Cold War era, the maintenance of a decent and hospitable international order requires continued American leadership in resisting and where possible undermining, rising dictators and hostile ideologies; in supporting American interests and liberal democratic principles; and in providing assistance to those struggling against the more extreme manifestations of human evil. Americans must shape this order, for if we refrain from doing so, we can be sure that others will shape it in ways that reflect neither our interests nor our values.

We can hardly expect it to be otherwise. Today's international system is built not around a balance of power but around American hegemony. The international financial institutions were fashioned by Americans and serve American interests. The international security structures are chiefly a collection of American-led alliances. What Americans like to call international "norms" are really reflections of American and West European principles. Since today's relatively benevolent international circumstances are the product of our hegemonic influence any lessening of that influence will allow other to play a larger part in shaping the world to suit their needs. States such as China and Russia, if given the chance, would configure the international system quite differently. Their idea of international norms, needless to say, would also be quite different. American hegemony then, must be actively maintained, just as it was actively obtained.
www.newamericancentury.org...

To see who all is involved with the PNAC and it's primary funding source "the New Citizenship Project" check out:
ourworld.compuserve.com...

SKADI
you said you now understood why our airforce stood down as they didnt know it wasnt training....or they would have hit the burrnere to get there....
TO DO WHAT?
shoot down domestic airliners full of citizens? especially when the threat of off course still flying planes was NOT KNOWN? The people (USA) would have sh-t themselves if we had fired on our own without knowing what the hijackers intentions were!!!!

TUT
the us gov did know that the use of aircraft vs buildings was ONE OF THE POSSIBLE scenarios that COULD be taken, but NOONE in the commission hearings ever said they had a credible or tangible SPECIFIC threat of that type or any idea of a WHEN or WHERE....The government was aware of the tactic of using suicide pilots vs targets in WWII...OF COURSE it was possible...but no one knew for sure...it could have been a nuke in a cargo container, anthrax in the mail or any other of the dozen serious threats that have been dreamed up. how about a choice #3...the conspiracy is in your mind?

Pure primo selecto-vision....amazing, all within ONE thread!

I'm so sick of hearing about this lucid PNAC BS, because that is simply what it is! Amazingt how many take something from a think-tank conceptive analysis and literally twist into some sort of Global conspiracy theory, that frankly...holds NO freakin' water and that includes all the ways one wishes to spin it!
Strictly a Republican sponsored BS? Please, if that was the case, how come just a year later, the Clinton Administration follows suite with this BT:
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998

Seems to me that the ILA 1998 sets the "plan" in motion doesn't it BT? No mention of this from you though...why? Oh, don't say it, its because it came from a mouth and was signed at the hands of a DEMOCRAT, President Bill Clinton!


As for FOX and tututkamen's saying this:

Well according to sworn live testimony in front of a nation watching, the entier administration had no idea or conception that planes would be used as miseles against the U.S.. Which allows only two conclusions, 1-they are totally ignorant and should in no way be allowed to occupy their offices or 2-they are blatant liars that assume the entire population of the U.S. is more ignorant than they are.. This is still an open Forum so feel free to post where you stand. Are you ignorant or are you ignorant.

Guess what Tut....may want to reconsider watching that darling show FOX! Why? Cause whatever program(s) you are watching are in that same 'selecto-vision' programming your pulling your information from! How so? Read these and tell all of us that the Clinton Administration and/or the US didn't have prior knowledge that PLANES would be used as missiles, k?
FBI informant revealed
9-11 plot in April 2001
Operation Bojinka
Clinton Warned on Bin Laden Hijack-Kamikaze Plot

PNAC my arse!


seekerof

Originally posted by Gazrok

2. We knew Osama planned to use airliners into buildings as an attack. We knew this because an earlier attempt was thwarted (the one mentioned being from the Pacific side, not the Atlantic and about 2 years earlier if I remember right). So yes, it's natural that these scenarios would be viewed as real threats, even before 911...

Yes Indeed !
....also, to bring up this little meme hidden in this P/NAC
911 Who Shares The Blame thread...
the published source: www.fortune.com...

...'On July 10, 2001, an FBI agent in Phoenix wrote a
memo raising serious concerns about Middle Eastern
men attending U.S. flight schools. The memo never
made its way up the chain of command, no action was
taken......The confidential document still hasn't been
released, and yesterday [may21, 2002] it was
the subject of a 'closed-door' Senate Intelligence
Committee session.'

further;...'The memo was written by Phoenix FBI
Special Agent Kenneth J Williams, described as a member of "Squad 16"....And the memo bears
FFBI codes: "Derived from G-3" and "Declassify on X1"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??
some of the above provided by:
www.unansweredquestions.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~??

Who/What is "Squad 16"? When did Agent Williams of Phoenix AZ begin the intel gathering of Arabs in Pilot- training at AZ flight schools? Was Agent Williams
the initial recipient of the 1995 'tip letter' to the Phoenix
FBI field office, referencing 6 Arab student pilots at the
Scottsdale Airport & Airpark and others at Mesa Airport?
Was Agent Williams holding a 'tip letter' which told of
plans to use planes as missles, on 3 specific targets, on a future date corresponding to 9-11 [either sep 11th or 9th of nov]...but was the letters' contents so Fantastic
that it was labeled as "Not Credible"...while dismissing
the enjoiner to verify the veracity of the 'tipster' thru
FBI Agent [name withheld]

Much Hubb-Bubb has been made around most everything else but the Phoenix memo and the
1995 Genesis for the Phoenix memo of 2001...
(only 60 days prior to the 911 terror events on
3 targets, by zealot martyrs in 'airplanes as missles')
My suspicion is that many people & agencies
could concieve of portions of the events on 911,
but the human facility to "Suspend ones' Disbelief"
and to rationalize away as inconcieveable/ preposterious the combined elements to accomplish the terror of 911 was the real culprit!
Everything else is only 'back-fill', speculation

the 911 commission was presented the ' '95 Genesis of
'01 Phoenix memo'>> received by >afelzenberg@9-11Commission<

You now have the insight to really know what They're
actually saying when the Commission speaks of...
having NO "Credible Evidence" or NO "Tangible Facts"
...even when the Squad 16 team reports on fatwas,
and pilots as martyrs cadre, were known at least 17
months before the 10 July 2001 Phoenix Memo....
which still gave 4 years between the tip warning and
the reluctant & untimely Phoenix Electronic Communication

anyone heard of the W32/Netsky virus [followed by a] DOTp@MM???....i can't type the name because
it will pop outta my PC into the message!

i'm working on that story too, enjoy your journey

The PNAC issue, and it is an issue, is a future area of American history that will detail not only the "Perfect Storm" of the Military Industrial Complex(MIC) but also the here to fore unseen reality of those same policy wonks having successive positions within Executive government to the "Industrial" part of the MIC to higher positions within the Executive branch of government, with one already openly declared the head of the Shadow contingency government and a heartbeat away from the legitimate head spot on the elected government. ( See a full cross referencable database of this administrations conflicts of interest HERE )
So the attempted minimalizing of PNAC 's direct influence and control over the Executive branch of our government is equivalent to saying that a mortar shell to your chest has the same life threating consequences as a pen knife stab wound to your buttocks .
Whereas the Clinton team & the Bush junta both identified Hussein's Iraq as an area of concern, the attempt to say that the ILA(Iraqi Liberation Act) & PNAC are the same words from different mouths is feckless sycophancy to a compromised president.
The ILA took the reigns up of where the elder Bush failed - which was to level the playing field for the factions which outnumbered Saddam's Baath party to overthrow him from the inside out. Bush gave them lip service and they were slaughtered through superior fire power.

The ILA specifically outline:
1) $2M for alternate media to educate the Iraqi populace
2) Weaponry & training with a $97M price cap
3) Humanitarian aid to counteract the cessation of service from Saddam's government to rebel regions
4) Mandated that the replacement governing authority must be made up of Iraqis from Iraq.
5) Establishment of a War Crime Tribunal to prosecute Hussein & the Baath party
6) and the BIGGIE: No military intervention outside the very defined parameters.
Back when adults were in charge, you had initiatives outlined & budgeted before being acted upon....transparency. You had the same desired effect being accounted for logically & with less than a $100M budget. We all are in agreement that regime changes only lasts when the oppressed rise up & do it themselves. Of key importance to all with family or friends deployed on this folly our illegitimate CINC has sent them on: no US Armed Forces casualties would have been tallied under the Clinton plan.

Contrast that with PNAC:

1) A unipolar world view with American hegemony having 'pole position'
2) All other world nations impeded from any sort of advancement for their own countries that would be a rival to the lone superpower status.
3) A policy of preemptive attacks on states that "appear" to be menacing
4) A never ending large commitment of American military forces in the Middle East...quote: "The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American forces presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein."
5) "Rebuilding America's Defenses", in PNAC's own category title verbage:
( Go figure, they took it down! Anyone else have it copied? newamericancentury.org... )
A. Pax Americana � outlining the rationale for global empire
B. Securing Global Hegemony � pinpointing regions that are considered trouble spots for U.S. policy
C. Rebuilding the Military � plans for expansion of U.S. military might
D. Future Wars of Pax Americana � the "RAD" vision of complete control of land, sea, air, space and cyberspace.



Big Difference, huh?

Okay, Tut, I'll play your game. You say their (PNAC and CFR) direction is the same, but they are obviously going at it in totally different directions. Their goals and desires for the U.S. are totally different on the surface. How are they both going in the same direction, two different hands of the same body?

(I've alsready formulated a possible anwesr in my mind as I'm just that suspicious as to be able to do that, but let's see what you think!)

Interesting questions posed as fact, conspiracy abounds!

Ok let me get this straight, Reagan in his zeal to defeat the Russians in Afganistan unknowingly unleashes the Bush family dynasty to subvert the muajadeen in country through the CIA, The muajadjeen and CIA cabal are victorious by 1989 and Osama bin Laden is a prominent figure in the victory through his wily schemes of finance and technical prowess. Bush Sr. recognizes a future oppurtinity when he see's one. (Ex CIA director that he is) and set the stage for an NWO operation the like of which nobody has ever seen. Everything is set and in place for his evil plan, when that upstart Clinton wins the Whitehouse on a platform of "happiness" darn happiness breaks out all over and suddenly everbody forgets about that manufactured menace the Soviet Union and its alter ego the irrepressible Saddam Hussien of Iraq, we sure showed them did'nt we the misogonistic american public thought.

Meanwhile as daddy Bush schemed and thought after the election of 1992 he had an ace in the hole, why I'll make my son President! so I can get back at that upstart Clinton and while I'm at it lets see if world domination can be accomplished at the same time - as the evil Bush Sr. rubbed his hands together in glee.

So he set about making his buddy Osama a great success at fund raising in Saudi Arabia, set the stage for the PNAC plan and made sure his everloving boy George bought a baseball team in Texas guranteeing him the govenorship.

So sure was he that when Osama and Saddam bombed the WTC in 93' a revolution was near but alas it fell off the radar in the bliss of Clintons shining abyss. Happiness abound he said!

So when the Kobar was amiss, and Clinton was still preaching bliss, that was to much amiss in old Georges plan - he said I'll teach'em to diss the plan.

Afganistan thats the plan, he thought, thats what I've missed!

With the PNAC in place, the CIA in control, His son as Govenor he thought he could ignore Clinton as a bore, after all Clinton only wanted more (head that is)

He gave it one more try with the Cole incident but that proved a dry hole. Clinton had to go! Impeach, Impeach boy his son was a peach!

With much money from all the rich boneman along with liberally (sic) applied persion on the electorate colledge, old bush managed a complete run on the supreme knowledge.

Oh great days are here again Georgie and his boy said, as they called their great friend Osama.

Please oh please they said as as Osama plead don't make me do this! It will mean the end of my Jihad.

The evil Bushes were having none of that as they spat, attack those towers so everyone will be powerless to stop us at the abyss.

Now does'nt that just make the greatest story of fiction you ever heard, I think I'll write a book.

Now seriously folks heres what the Bush administration had to contend with in the first several months,

This administration came into office to discover that al Qaeda had been allowed to grow into a full-blown menace. It lost six precious weeks to the Florida recount � and then weeks after Inauguration Day to the go-slow confirmation procedures of a 50-50 Senate. As late as the summer of 2001, pitifully few of Bush�s own people had taken their jobs at State, Defense, and the NSC. Then it was hit by 9/11. And now, now the same people who allowed al Qaeda to grow up, who delayed the staffing of the administration, who did nothing when it was their turn to act, who said nothing when they could have spoken in advance of the attack � these same people accuse George Bush of doing too little? There�s a long answer to give folks like that � and also a short one. And the short one is: How dare you?

I presented the fiction that the far left keeps trying to foist on Americans first to get you to see that either Clinton was complicet in the PNAC plan (unlikely) or that he was a stooge (More Likely) in the supposed plot by the bushes to attack their own country.

The reality in my opinion is Bush did"nt have much of a chance to effect things before 9/11, but he's sure done alot since then - more than I can say for the last administrations responce to obvious terror attacks, and much more the the presumed candidate for the democratic nomination can ever claim by his proven record.

PS: hope you enjoyed the entertainment!


BTW, did anyone read the synopsis of the author of the information that BT based this post originally on, I found it enlightening - maybe you will too,

Quoted from BT's referenced site,
"Michael Kane is a Social Sculptor working in the tradition of Joseph Beuyes, the artist who declared "everyone is an artist". He fronts the progressive hip-hop group CLARITY whose latest CD "THIS IS NOT A TEST" features the song "buddy buddy" detailing the morning of 9-11-01. Kane reluctantly stepped into journalism as one of a handful of independent researchers to honestly investigate the 411 Blackout. This culminated in a public comment given in front of the U.S-Canadian joint task force to investigate the blackout in New York on December 5, 2003. Currently he is working on a book entitled "What's the 411? Blackout, War Games, and 9-11"

Kane is the only journalist actively covering the NY 9-11 Truth Movement. This group has been at the footprint of Ground Zero every Saturday since January of 2004. He is an associate producer for Shadow Government Television, the production team that produced "BUSH KNEW", which was a finalist in the Move On "Bush in 30 Seconds" ad contest. Kane has also worked with Public Citizen's "Water for All" Campaign on a CD Rom which details the facts surrounding the world water crisis."

Now this is a first class source is it not?


[Edited on 30-3-2004 by Phoenix]