Did anyone know these 9/11 facts?

ps.
Didnt enjoy the limmrick.
Standard neo-con misinformation.
facts mixed with lies.
CIA Inside job. INSIDE JOB. THERE WERE NO TERRORISTS.
The Mighty bush regime is trying to spin this every way they can because the truth is getting out. Hence all the TV coverage as of late.
I urge all of you that havnt investigated 911 to spend a few days doing so. Its not at all like what you have been told.

Aware, If the Internet site you visited said to Jump off a bridge you probbably would, since its readily apparent that you will believe anything you read as fact. Your responce proves it to me.

Am I to accept without question BT's obviously biased information as fact? come on get a dose of reality!

Yes, i mistated myself there and i apologize.
My head was still spinning from that silly little rhyme.
There were terrorists, but not the ones you have been shown on TV.
I can tell fromyour response neo-con that you are one of two things.
Either part of the lower echelon nwo or blindly following the neo-con ways that you have been taught .
If you're the first, i say good luck, ur gonna need it.
If you're the second i say open your eyes and examine
things more closely my friend.
Theres still time to change the path you're on.

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by aware]

The PNAC letter and analysis, of January of 1998, written by "War Hawks," was sent to Bill Clinton urging that the US abandon its 'containment policy' against Saddam/Iraq, which was having no effect on his 'manipulations' or dealings (ie: the UN blundered and pilfered "Food for Oil Program"), and opt for the/a 'policy of removal'.
B. Clinton opted for a combination of both and sent into motion the unanimous voting for the Iraqi Liberation Act, at the end of October of 1998.



seekerof

[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Okay, Tut, I'll play your game. You say their (PNAC and CFR) direction is the same, but they are obviously going at it in totally different directions. Their goals and desires for the U.S. are totally different on the surface. How are they both going in the same direction, two different hands of the same body?

(I've alsready formulated a possible anwesr in my mind as I'm just that suspicious as to be able to do that, but let's see what you think!)

I'm sorry Mr. Crowne,

I am not playing a game merely responding on a message board. I am sorry you do not appreciate the message. If you care to know on what I base my opinion here are a few www. addresses that correlate the two organizations. I am always interested if not fascinated by your input.

Tut


www.pnac.info...

www.currentconcerns.ch...

www.siliconinvestor.com...

www.greekspot.org...

Originally posted by Seekerof
Pure primo selecto-vision....amazing, all within ONE thread!

I'm so sick of hearing about this lucid PNAC BS, because that is simply what it is! Amazingt how many take something from a think-tank conceptive analysis and literally twist into some sort of Global conspiracy theory, that frankly...holds NO freakin' water and that includes


As for FOX and tututkamen's saying this:

Well according to sworn live testimony in front of a nation watching, the entier administration had no idea or conception that planes would be used as miseles against the U.S.. Which allows only two conclusions, 1-they are totally ignorant and should in no way be allowed to occupy their offices or 2-they are blatant liars that assume the entire population of the U.S. is more ignorant than they are.. This is still an open Forum so feel free to post where you stand. Are you ignorant or are you ignorant.

Guess what Tut....may want to reconsider watching that darling show FOX! Why? Cause whatever program(s) you are watching are in that same 'selecto-vision' programming your pulling your information from! How so? Read these and tell all of us that the Clinton Administration and/or the US didn't have prior knowledge that PLANES would be used as missiles, k?

FBI informant revealed
9-11 plot in April 2001
Operation Bojinka
Clinton Warned on Bin Laden Hijack-Kamikaze Plot

PNAC my arse!

seekerof

Well let's see,

The program I was watching was the hearings off the 911 Commision broadcast on TV for two days. First featuring statements from key position holders in both Clinton and Bush adminstrations and then a thorough interview with Richard Clarke. Guess who won!
Anything else was a pun that you misinterpreted or went over your head. Especially the part about Fox News, their talking heads obviously did not watch the same hearings I did, or more than likely, not at all. BTW, did you enjoy them?

TUT TUT

I would have to agree with tut here
Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
"Their goals and desires for the U.S. are totally different on the surface. How are they both going in the same direction, two different hands of the same body? "
Ever heard of good cop/ bad cop?
Two different sides, same goal.
Basic sociology.

Definitely wasn't the already proven wrong Mr. Clarke there Tut tut.


seekerof

Originally posted by CazMedia
SKADI
you said you now understood why our airforce stood down as they didnt know it wasnt training....or they would have hit the burrnere to get there....
TO DO WHAT?
shoot down domestic airliners full of citizens? especially when the threat of off course still flying planes was NOT KNOWN? The people (USA) would have sh-t themselves if we had fired on our own without knowing what the hijackers intentions were!!!!

TUT
the us gov did know that the use of aircraft vs buildings was ONE OF THE POSSIBLE scenarios that COULD be taken, but NOONE in the commission hearings ever said they had a credible or tangible SPECIFIC threat of that type or any idea of a WHEN or WHERE....The government was aware of the tactic of using suicide pilots vs targets in WWII...OF COURSE it was possible...but no one knew for sure...it could have been a nuke in a cargo container, anthrax in the mail or any other of the dozen serious threats that have been dreamed up. how about a choice #3...the conspiracy is in your mind?

Shoot down planes full of civilians? yes. Shooting down a plane doesnt mean destroying it. The engines can be shot down and the plane can land intact.

As for knowing the hijackers intentions? Ok. Well give them the benefit of the doubt for the first plane. Hijacked. Still as part of standard operating proceedure, fighter jets are required to tail any plane off course, regardless of intent. they dont even need to shoot it down. There a whole list of standard proceedures to follow when intercepting a plane.

Ok, they first plane is hijacked. Then it crashes. After that plane crashes........and a couple more are confirmed hijacked, i think the terrorists intentions are suddenly clear, and shooting down the planes to save people on the ground becomes acceptable, especially after seeing the first plane slam the world trade center. Yet three more pleanes, all with the same intent, spaced out from one another min time frames, turn course and crash wherever into whatever. And not one single challenge. Not a single jet dispatched until its FAR TOO LATE to do anything

The conspiracy lies not in the head, but in front of your face if one still has the mental faculties to engage in critical thinking.

A couple interesting posts from Rumor Mill News. Here's an official document that could be interpreted as the stand down order that prevented Air Force interception of the hijacked 9-11 aircraft.

FOUND! THE 911 'STAND DOWN ORDER' From 911-strike.com

Jim Hoffman has discovered a document which I believe may be very important
to the 911 skeptic movement. This document superseded earlier DOD procedures
for dealing with hijacked aircraft, and it requires that Secretary of
Defense Rumsfeld is personally responsible for issuing intercept orders.
Commanders in the field are stripped of all authority to act. This amazing
order came from S.A. Fry (Vice Admiral, US Navy and Director, Joint Staff)
so it appears to me that responsibility for the US armed forces "Failure to
Respond" rests directly with Fry for issuing this instruction, as well as
with Donald Rumsfeld for failing to execute his responsibility to issue
orders in a timely fashion.

continued at:

www.rumormillnews.com...

link to document:

911research.wtc7.net...

Here's a followup post that focuses on Fry's association to Jewish organizations, raising the question of a possible conflict of interest:

www.rumormillnews.com...



[Edited on 31-3-2004 by Condorcet]

For anyone in government to authorise the forcing down of a hijacked commercial jetliner, risking injury/death to both innocents on the plain and on the ground....would have been political suicide.

blaming hijackers for killing those people is one thing,
trying to justify you ordering the deaths is quite another.
NO politician in his right mind would ever condone this type of action as it removes the blame for the deaths from the terrorists and puts it on the person giving the order. It always looks bad when your own armed forces use force against its own people, even if its done for a "greater good"....

Um, Caz.........

After seeing the first plane the the number it did to the WTC, after seeing the second plane hit..............

I dont think anyone would have minded an airforce jet firing on the other two jets that came thier way.

If they refused to shoot down those jets for fear of thoer careers, they should be executed for criminal negligence. Thier inactions, if that were the case, caused far more deaths than woulkd have been had those planes been shot down.

But, its not a matter of who ordering the shootdown. Politicans do not have to order the shootdown. Local commanders, NORAD, non political entites, hell, even a [pilot, if necessity dictates, is authorized such an action.

And youre forgetting that mintercepting a plane does not mean shooting it down.

SOP for air emergencies":

When a scrambled jet makes visual contact with the plane, he attempts to make radio contact, if that fails, visual wing rocking. If that fails, shooting rounds across the flight path in front of the plane. After those three options have failed........ then its time for descisions.

The fact that the jets werent even scrambled into the air to find out why hijacked planes are going miswerably off course in itself is glaring evidence of a stand down or deliberate break in communications.

4 different planes from three different airports, three of which hit thier targets totally unchallenged? Not even a notification to the fighter jets to get in the air, follow said planes, and figure out what the # is going on? Were not even talking about shooting the airplanes down, were talking following a basic operating proceedure that had been followed 67 times that year before.

Can we say massive conspiracy?

SOP for air emergencies":

When a scrambled jet makes visual contact with the plane, he attempts to make radio contact, if that fails, visual wing rocking. If that fails, shooting rounds across the flight path in front of the plane. After those three options have failed........ then its time for descisions.

Not sure where you got that list from, but it is missing a few steps.

The fact that the jets werent even scrambled into the air to find out why hijacked planes are going miswerably off course in itself is glaring evidence of a stand down or deliberate break in communications.

Not at all. I love how all the people here who have no idea how long it takes to get a armed military aircraft into the air can question why it took so long. I advise you to check the NORAD timeline and then see for yourself. If there is any communication breakdown to be blamed, it should go to the FAA for taking so long to make a determination that the planes were hijacked.

Can we say massive conspiracy?

No we can't.

Originally posted by Seekerof
Definitely wasn't the already proven wrong Mr. Clarke there Tut tut.


seekerof

Well,

I had no idea that Richard Clarke had been proven wrong by any court, commision , or Agent of God. Such as self appointed agent GWB of the Evangelical Moral Majority, the same that makes light of the missing WMD's. What's up with that I guess God told him to make a joke out of it, during one of their discussions. It is also interesting how he shoots down the idea of stem cell research in the US to appease his Evangelical followers and then just last week or so his DoD gave a Sweedish firm 250,000 to research stem cells in relation to bio-logical warfare. It's A-OK, we can outsource that type of research while we forbid it here.
That is not hypocritical its Globalization.
I had no idea Clarke was offically declared as not credible. That tricky SOB sure tricked me. I don't feel bad though, he tricked the last four Presidents into giving him a job and keeping him on board. So if he can trick Reagan, Bush,GH, and W.Clinton, as well as Bush, GW I ain't surprised he tricked me.
But HELL-O Seeker Of, he sure didn't fool you for a New York minute. WOW

TUTUTKAMEN

p.s. He didn't fool Hanity or O'Rielly either. So you stand with highly scrupulous gentlemen in world filled with fools.
Atlas Shrugged

Coolhand, for someone who is former military, your ignorance astounds me.

Ever hear of the Zulu commitment? We could get planes off the ground from time of notification in 10 minutes to combat the soviets.

We stopped the Zulu missions in Europe when the Soviet Union fell, but not here. We have had planes on standby near key areas and always will. Andrews Airforce base, closest to DC, has such a mission.

But of course, if you look, on 9/11, most of the fighters were conviently on NC in the air on training missions. THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE FRIGGIN AIR.

Thus, after the first two planes struck the WTC, and another plane at the same time the second hit hijack confirmed, and those planes still flying around in NC? At that point, if those planes were told to return home, they would have more than made it in enough time to intercept flight 77 before it even appeared on the DC horizon.

But those fighters were not told to return home, after not one, but TWO airplanes had slammed into the WTC. We all knew then it was no accident, and the FAA and NORAD already knew the planes were hijacked LONG BEFORE THE PUBLIC KNEW.

Two major terrorist attacks involving planes on US soil, and the nations capitol not alerted till after the 4th plane is going down? Puleeze. After the Ok city bombing in 95, even at Khbar towers in Saudia arabia, we were suddenly on elevated alert.

And, according to the pilots dispatched from Otis Airforce base in MA, who were to respond to the situation in NYC, were up in the air about10 minutes after being notified.

Because the air national guard and NORAD keep combat ready fighter squadrons at all times to respond to emergencies. These guys are always on alert, ready to jump in the air within a few minutes.

Try again, cool hand

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Coolhand, for someone who is former military, your ignorance astounds me.

I am not former, I am current

Ever hear of the Zulu commitment? We could get planes off the ground from time of notification in 10 minutes to combat the soviets.

We stopped the Zulu missions in Europe when the Soviet Union fell, but not here. We have had planes on standby near key areas and always will. Andrews Airforce base, closest to DC, has such a mission.

But of course, if you look, on 9/11, most of the fighters were conviently on NC in the air on training missions. THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE FRIGGIN AIR.

Yes, armed with training ordnance. Did you just happen to overlook that fact? Not much they can do with training rounds short of ramming them.

Thus, after the first two planes struck the WTC, and another plane at the same time the second hit hijack confirmed, and those planes still flying around in NC? At that point, if those planes were told to return home, they would have more than made it in enough time to intercept flight 77 before it even appeared on the DC horizon.

They were being sent back to exchange training rounds with real ones.

But those fighters were not told to return home, after not one, but TWO airplanes had slammed into the WTC. We all knew then it was no accident, and the FAA and NORAD already knew the planes were hijacked LONG BEFORE THE PUBLIC KNEW.

Two major terrorist attacks involving planes on US soil, and the nations capitol not alerted till after the 4th plane is going down? Puleeze. After the Ok city bombing in 95, even at Khbar towers in Saudia arabia, we were suddenly on elevated alert.

And, according to the pilots dispatched from Otis Airforce base in MA, who were to respond to the situation in NYC, were up in the air about10 minutes after being notified.

What is your point? It takes that long to get the aircraft in the air.

Why is it so hard for civilians to understand that you cannot just throw a switch and magically transport an aircraft where it needs to be with full armaments and permission to fire?

A batter Question.

Why the hell is it so hard for you to understand what is written?

I am afraid I have wasted entirely too much time trying to drill very simple concepts into that skull of yours. Its like trying to explain quantum physics to my cat.

THERE ARE STILL JETS ALL OVER WHO ARE ON ACTIVE ALERT. FROM THE TIME THE PLANES WERE HIJACK CONFIRMED TO THE TIME THEY HIT, THERE WAS A HUGE GAP IN TIME IN WHICH THERE WAS PLENTY OF TIME FOR BASES TO BE ALERTED, JETS SCRAMBLED, IN THE AIR, AT LEAST TO SEE THE FIRST PLANE HIT THE WTC. YET SAID PLANES WERE NOT EVEN NOTIFED TILL A GOOD 20 MINUTES AFTER THE HIJACKINGS WERE CONFIRMED WITH THE FIRST, AND THE SECOND WAS KNOWN TO BE HIJACKED AS WELL. 20 MINUTES BEFORE THEY SOUNDED AN ALARM, AND THATS JUST NYC.

AN HOUR LATER A THIRD PLANE HITS THE PENTAGON. AND ONLY TEN MINUTES PRIOR ARE JETS FROM LANGLEY SCRAMBLED. LANGLY IS ALOT FURTHER THAN ADREWS AIRFORCE BASE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT ANDREWS AIRFORCE BASE IS? DESPITE THE FACT MANY OF THIER FIGHTERS WERE ON TRAINING EXERCISES IN NC, THEY STILL HAD FIGHTERS AT ANDREWS 10 MILES FROM DC ON ALERT, LIKE THEY ARE ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME. 10 MILES FROM DC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND IT WAS A GOOD 40 MINUTES AFTER THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE WTC THAT THE THIRD HIT THE PENTAGON. THATS MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME TO EVEN GET NON READY JETS IN THE AIR OPVER THE DC SKIES TO DEFEND THE GODDMAN CITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

www.unansweredquestions.net...

Even though my pateince with your inability to grasp very simple statements is wearing thin, I have decided to be nice enough to include a link to the time line of events for 9/11, every little detail inclided, in such simple format even YOU might understand. Each segment includes a link to a media source where they got thier info. Credible, mainstream media sources who reported on that day.

Read first. nThen go over and figure it out for yourself.

I have other bones to pick, and have spent enough time on this most tedious one.

Its obvious the reason the Dept of Defense stood down on 911. They had to let the operation unfold. Look at the 5 minutes of video with Bush reading calmly to the children in the class room after the second plane had hit

Trust me, 911 wreaks of a inside operation especially with the mossad posing as art people everywhere, the insider trading etc. They know we know and they really dont care

The rabbit hole goes deeper than you can possibly imagine. If it were all to be released you would think you were in a X Files SG1 show.

If someone could just point out the exact second that the intentions of every aircraft in the sky on 9-11 was made I think that would clear the issue up.

I have read all the ridiculous information on 9-11 that I can stand. I was there, I know what happened. I listened in on MAD and IAD and heard the calls going out. I watched the intercepts occurring on the displays with my own eyes.

I am sick of all you Monday morning quaterbacks who think that they know all the answers and could have done it better. You weren't there and you definately did not have access to the real time information that we had then. The day that stuff gets declassified is the day that all the questions can get answered.

In reviewing this, the subject matter is going into already previously and extensively covered topics here within ATS.

Further discussion on this and anything related can take place within this INDEX thread (below), for which it was designed for.
Forum Reference Index for 9/11 and the Pentagon Related Discussion

Question or complaints on this threads closing can be addressed by u2u to any mod or using the complaint feature.

Closed

seekerof