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Obama's New Attack on Those Who Don't Want Higher Taxes: ‘Selfishness’

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posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by Sublime620

... he just said anyone who makes $200,000 or less will get a tax cut in that add. Sounds exactly the same to me.

reply to post by elitegamer23
 


There was a bit of a "thumpin'" last election, but that is only because the house and senate were controlled by republicans. Now, both the house and senate, are almost exactly even.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Sublime620]



See this is the problem when you don't pay attention to detail, NO ALMOST is not the same as even. His assertion that the house and senate are controlled by Neither is false. His assertion that $200,000 is the same as $250,000 is again FALSE help me with the math here sublime.




posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by nyk537
Exactly.

Who is paying more should be irrelevant. Nobody should be asked to pay more of their money to support another group of people. It isn't right that we've been doing it for corporations, and it isn't right that they should have to do it for anyone else.

I work hard for what I have, and I expect others to do the same.



I am not voting for Obama. I still don't agree with your reasoning. I worked for 20 years. Now I am too sick to work and disability is not forthcoming, I have no insurance and I paid into that system for 20 years and now that I am sick and can't work full time, I am glad I paid my share. When I did have insurance I was denied care and they hollered pre- existing condition. I do agree that we should stop corporate welfare. They are raping the people and not contributing to society.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by kj6754
he is absolutely right. If you don't want to give people the same chance you had to be successful then you are being selfish.


Ummm, I didn't become successful 'by chance', I didn't win the success lottery.

I became successful by MY OWN hard work.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by TheOracle
To You the Riches:


So you are "working so hard" earning 250k+ a year? Why dont you tell us why kind of trade you are in , because for this amount of profit it must be a very profitable business and you must be living very comfortably.

Compare this to the guy working in a factory, breaking his back and health to make a 10th of what you are making. He is struggling to buy the products people earning 250k+ a year make. Or maybe you are his employer, and you refuse to raise his wages and treat him like a slave?

People can twist it anyway they want, they are making a lot of money and refuse to help others.

Are you Christian btw? Or your only God is Money?



That guy breaking his back is not educated and made the descision to go to a factory after high school and not better himself. All that "extra, hard work" of college was just too much. I landed a well paying job BEFORE I had even graduated college so don't tell me there aren't oppotunnities beyond factory work. They decided to take the "easy road" after high school and that is their own fault. I am surrounded by people who studied some of the hardest subjects in school (engineers), and make good money. And guess what? They get tired, stressed out, and work long hours too. AND they get taxed out of their a$$es.

Just because you use your MIND to make good money doesn't mean you don't deserve your income. Are you really that naive??



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by TheOracle
To You the Riches:


So you are "working so hard" earning 250k+ a year? Why dont you tell us why kind of trade you are in , because for this amount of profit it must be a very profitable business and you must be living very comfortably.

Compare this to the guy working in a factory, breaking his back and health to make a 10th of what you are making. He is struggling to buy the products you make. Or maybe you are his employer, and you refuse to raise his wages and treat him like a slave?

People can twist it anyway they want, they are making a lot of money and refuse to help others.

Are you Christian btw? Or your only God is Money?



[edit on 1-11-2008 by TheOracle]


Lets not forget the GM and Auto Union workers that get LIFETIME healthcare benefits after they retire. My dad doesn't get that!!! I won't get that!!! And we have 10's of thousands of dollars in school debt and still work hard!!!

"Are you Christian btw?"

Yes



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by MAINTAL

See this is the problem when you don't pay attention to detail, NO ALMOST is not the same as even. His assertion that the house and senate are controlled by Neither is false. His assertion that $200,000 is the same as $250,000 is again FALSE help me with the math here sublime.


you tell me to pay attention to detail, how about u do what u speak. i never once said the house or rep was controlled by neither. pay attention to detail instead of putting false words in my mouth. trying to have a discussion with u is pointless. im still waiting for the facts i asked for. not your uneducated assumptions.
since u have all the facts, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THE HOUSE IS CONTROLLED BY NEITHER.


Originally posted by MAINTAL


i watched the commercial. it said 200 k , not 120k. still waiting for your facts sir.


Cute little strawman but I have been at this far too long to be fooled by silly equivocations like you just attempted. Yeah it said $200,000 and not $120,000 and ya know what else it didn't say?

THE ORIGINAL $250,000 Obama's said in his first plan and Oh By the way Biden has now used an even lower figure.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by MAINTAL]

prove to me this 120k figure or quit talking out your @ss.



[edit on 1-11-2008 by elitegamer23]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by elitegamer23
i watched the commercial. it said 200 k , not 120k. still waiting for your facts sir.


Here is the facts! READ YOUR POST!

YOU SAID QUOTE


"Obama defines it at $250k, it never changed. McCain is the one who was flip-flopping on his tax scheme: ...and that is coming straight from the horses mouth. "


It changed by $50,000 bucks! to what is on the video and what I said he gave as the number $200,000






www.youtube.com...



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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I am a capitalist. I pay my bills, my family's bills, my company's bills and loans.

I don't get this attitude that now I have to pay your bills too. Where were you when times were tough for me? Now times are worse for me too and I still get stuck with the tab.

You are going to vote for Obama to get a few bucks back on your taxes? What a joke.

Keeping the money I earn is not greedy or corporate welfare or selfish. My capital is in a bank where you can borrow it and build your dream.

It really is absurd that liberals have no capacity to survive without me, yet they hate me with such passion. I owe you nothing, not even sympathy.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by elitegamer23

you tell me to pay attention to detail, how about u do what u speak. i never once said the house or rep was controlled by neither. pay attention to detail instead of putting false words in my mouth. trying to have a discussion with u is pointless. im still waiting for the facts i asked for. not your uneducated assumptions.
since u have all the facts, SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THE HOUSE IS CONTROLLED BY NEITHER.



No you got it wrong again sherlock

THIS IS WHAT ORIGINALLY SAID



congess doesnt pass a budget without the potus signature. anyways, the senate is 50/50. who controls the senate? neither!


Do YOU see house of represenatives in that statement?

Neither do I and THAT is why I corrected your original quote

SEE BELOW

See this is the problem when you don't pay attention to detail, NO ALMOST is not the same as even. His assertion that the house and senate are controlled by Neither is false.



OWNED



i

[edit on 1-11-2008 by MAINTAL]

[edit on 1-11-2008 by MAINTAL]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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Obama is the man!

He's right. It all boils down to selfishness and the individuals failure to understand that a nations prosperity and growth relies on the unification of welfare.

If a system is "picky" and only seeks to reward those who are succesful, it has already failed.

Obama understands that for a system to be prosporous it must reward those who are succesful yes, BUT leave something for those who aren't. If a system punishes it's slackers, they're gonna punish that system right back.

What Obama understands is the importance of keeping an ovreall high morale.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:47 AM
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This election is not for Republican or Democrat. It is for the degree of socialism that you want to have. The Republican want to take money and tax cuts and give them to their buddies in big business in the hopes that they will promise to hire more corporate slave (thats you and me). More than likely they'll take the money and run and hire their slaves where they are cheaper In the quest for the all mighty Federal Reserve Note, we don't have cash in this country that is really ours. Now the Democrats, or the more ingrained socialist, just blatantly want to control your pockets directly with the spread the wealth. It is the willingness of the masses of how much of their lives that they are willing to give up to government to let govern. What the Democrats are say is that if you make more that X amount of dollars, you have duty to pay those who don't.

But I argue this. Isn't this America. Isn't this the land of opportunity. This is where people come from all over the world to try to make there fortune and have a fresh start. It is where any person can go from a homeless to a wall street broker. It has happen and it is only place where that can happen. This is a country where your past really doesn't matter. But now it seems that people want to elect a leader who wants to punish success. He says that this is only going to effect the top 5%, but isn't that to 5% that employees the majority in this country.

I have seen what happens when a factory has to cut back first hand to a community here in Youngstown Ohio. Over 50% of all of the small businesses supports the local car manufacturing plant. When I was growing up, the factory did a massive layoff, well that not only put those people out of work and not putting money in to the economy, but all of the small businesses lost business because they didn't need as much from them. So, in turn all the small businesses had to cut back and lay people off and down scale everything.

What I am saying is that our businesses are all tied together and if you make drastic and major changes to lets say taxes, and they have to down size or move factories to have cheaper labor and less taxes because those other countries aren't going to make them pay taxes because they know how much more money the economy is going to get from them being there. In fact American companies pay the highest taxes in the world already, why should we further punish them and put the notion in there heads about outsourcing or moving totally over seas.

I guess the basic tone of my rant is that if you elect Obama, you are going to see more job and opportunity leave and this country fall further into recession. Plus you are just welcoming a much larger degree of socialism. Just remember this axiom, Democrats = Big Government, most people think that our government is big enough and I haven't seen a paradigm shift in the Democrats philosophy. Also. Where are they going to get the money to pay for all the health care plans and other governmental programs they want to introduce to us.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by TheOracle
 




People can twist it anyway they want, they are making a lot of money and refuse to help others.


Reeeealy?

Please show me that "rich" people refuse to help others.

That is an ignorant statement. I know plenty of "rich" people who do MORE then their fair share of helping others - on top of the taxes they pay.

STOP knocking people who make more money then you. And START knocking the government who refuses to create a proper budget by cutting out all the BS they spend the money they already take from us. THEY are the fault of everything - not John and Jane Doe who make over $250K a year.

[edit on 11/1/2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by TheRooster
 


Except all the republicans I know with this attitude has no problem taking a handout when offered to them.
they don't want to give out their "gpas" yet if someone offered, they are the first to snatch.

They complain that they don't want to pay for anyone else. Yet, when they are in need of public services, they gripe about how there is't any, and how lousy the system is.


All this talk about selfishness. Don't do anything with MY money.

Yes isn't complete and pure selfishness got us into this mess in the first place?

All this talk about family values (but heaven forbid if we help others) and God this and God that. I doubt Jesus walked around saying: why should I have to use my powers to help anyone. Why should I have to spend my hard earned money on someone else?

oh wait..he didn't have any.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by nixie_nox]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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He is not really attacking anyone, he is merely saying things as they are.

I find it hard to believe USA and Australia are the only two countries that have not implemented a national healthcare system for everyone. What good does a super advanced healthcare system have to offer to people that can't even afford basic coverage? Do people not see the irony in this?

And then the famous cliche that america needs at least one war every decade just to keep the military-industrial complex going. Who pays the bill if not the taxpayers? I think the people that can afford to pay more should pay more and stop whinning about it. In reality though the lower middle class ends up paying more tax money then the wealthy because most of the loopholess are tailored made for wealthy individuals and corporations.

These are facts, not science fiction.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by MAINTAL



OWNED



i

[edit on 1-11-2008 by MAINTAL]


you dont seriously expect to be taken seriously here do you?
where is your 120k figure?

thank god u arent old enough to vote.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by MAINTAL
 


No, it's your failure to understand POLICY. He has never said that people over $200,000 will get a tax cut.

Let me try to explain this a little better for you:

Your income = x

x < $200,000 = Tax break

$200,000 < x < $250,000 = No Tax Break

x > $250,000 = Tax Hike

Got it? Nothing changed, you just failed to comprehend because you read smear sites.

*Edit:

And the house really isn't controlled by either. Here are the figures.

1

Democratic Party 233 +31 53.6%
Republican Party 202 −30 46.4%


Not even close to "controlled".

And we've already discussed the Senate.



[edit on 1-11-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:11 PM
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I can understand that we need to help people out generally in need, but what about the freeloaders? Why should they get rewarded because they want to be lazy or found a loophole to get a check. Why should they benefit? I'm not saying their aren't people that need help and would work to get off it, but there is also an ample supply of free loaders that don't care and love the fact they get a check for doing nothing. And the system that would give the money to the people that need it and would contribute doesn't work because the people that won't work still receive from the system.

My friend brought up a good point to me yesterday. He went to a place to eat and saw a bum sitting on the corner. He was served by a guy wearing a pro Obama shirt. The guy provided him excellent service and my friend asked him if he really believed in Obama's policies. Of course the guy said yes. Well then my friend said this " You gave me excellent service and I think you deserve a tip, but since you believe in Obama's policies I am going to spread the wealth and give your tip to the bum sitting out there". The guy was fuming after this. A few careful points I want to share because I know Pro-Obama people will blast me for it.

The system is broke and will Obama fix it? Doubtful because it hasn't been looked at for years and I doubt any president will ( No Mcain either).
Obama hasn't had much time in government , which has pros and cons. He's inexperienced but less likely to be as corrupt as old timers. But lets face it they are politicians, so they are corrupt in some way. I'm a fence rider because this whole situation is broke. Presidents have alot of power and they generally can't stay with their parties policies. Because in essance they have to represent all the people and parties. Usually when they get in office most of their promises go out the door as they've won and they generally have no vested intrest except maybe getting re-elected in 4 yrs. Yeah I guess i kinda got off topic a bit but for good reason. The system is broken and it needs fixed. We as a nation need to take a good long look at it and fix whats broke. Social security, courts,taxes. No one person is going to tackle this by themselves, they need a push from us. A council instead of a president would work towards equal representation.

As for Obama's taxing policies I feel they will just hurt us in the end.

But just my .2 you can take it or leave it

-Aza



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Sublime620
 


plus he is incompetent.

im amazed people who clearly make under 250k, 200k, 120k( imaginary number) are so passionate about protecting the tax cuts that W handed to the rich.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by MAINTAL
Care to show me what part of that isn't true sublime?


Sure.

1) Democrats are not in "control" of Congress. They have marginally more seats in the senate and house. Filibusters are still fair game.

2) Even this marginal control has only been for under 2 years.

Trying to blame democrats for anything about this presidency is a fallacy at best. Wishful thinking.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by Sublime620]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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still waiting for you to prove the 120k figure mantail.


Originally posted by Azathoth

As for Obama's taxing policies I feel they will just hurt us in the end.

But just my .2 you can take it or leave it

-Aza


what has george W and the gop tax policies done for the country?

greatest economic crisis since the great depression?

yeah change is a bad direction.



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