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Creationism's Legacy: Anti-intellectualism

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posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by dave420
 


excellent find Dave even back in 430AD looks like a bunch of christians were running around poking religeon where it doesnt belong

things never change. most scientists (and note i said scientists not the clowns with doctorates in anything except earth sciences) who are working on ID theory DO NOT want it dragged into the media or the class room. they know it cant stand up to scrutiny in its present form and the unwise masses waving it like a flag are doing more harm them a bunch of evolutionist loving citizens like us could ever do

they are destroying it before it could even become somthing


keep up the good work folks




posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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Let's hear it for our friends at the Gallup Poll!!! Seems that the likelihood of belief in the Creation Myth is directly linked to the education level of the believer. Here are two videos put out by Gallup concerning this issue:

Creation Matters

Creation/Evolution

So it looks like the OP, my good friend Good Wolf is absolutely correct on this one! Seems the more educated folks aren't snowed by the Creationists while those with a lesser education are more likely to be sheep in the flock.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by amazed
 


Amazed -- Ideas are free on ATS. Of course you may use what you wish, especially if it helps people understand why ID should not be part of a science curriculum but rather a Sunday School topic. -- Pteridine



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Do you think creationists could argue yuu the following?

Say a wild possibilty say at the time the sumerians a technological civilization created humans though geneitic modification and manipulation ( this is possible, we do very similar now), hand reared us and created us as a social and scientific experiment. Now, if they altered a chimps DNA sy with their own?? would that back up the EVA theory, and would it also back up the creationists as in a sense if this were a possibilty we would have been genetically 'designed' by a creator, just not the of the same that created the universe.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by MCoG1980
Do you think creationists could argue yuu the following?

Say a wild possibilty say at the time the sumerians a technological civilization created humans though geneitic modification and manipulation ( this is possible, we do very similar now), hand reared us and created us as a social and scientific experiment. Now, if they altered a chimps DNA sy with their own?? would that back up the EVA theory, and would it also back up the creationists as in a sense if this were a possibilty we would have been genetically 'designed' by a creator, just not the of the same that created the universe.


ok ill be kind and play along

it wouldnt be a chimp it would have been a common ancestor so say an early homonid

they tinkered around and the result was to push us towards what we are today

A)evolution got us to chim/early homonid in the first place
B)the creator dna messing aliens would have had to have evolved on thier planet in the first place to be advanced enough to tinker with our dna

so evolution is still the key driving force

now if you change alien for god then god would have to have evolved somewhere from somthing that came before him, and if that happened there would be more then 1 god

god couldnt have evolved to god without enviromental and preadtorial pressure

so now we have lots of what ever was before god evolving under enviromental strain and bieng predated on by something

scarry huh? some where out there in the where ever god is theres also lots of other gods and god eating things too



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by noobfun
scarry huh? some where out there in the where ever god is theres also lots of other gods and god eating things too


Wow. That is scary.
Is Satan a 'god eater'?
Oh man! It all makes sense now!


 



Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Let's hear it for our friends at the Gallup Poll!!! Seems that the likelihood of belief in the Creation Myth is directly linked to the education level of the believer.


Not to be confused with intellegence.
I think that can mostly be explained by the fact that someone who is interested in science is more likely to be an atheist.
I mean, most Christians don't care about finding the answers because they believe they already have them.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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There is an ancient saying that has always remained and still applies today and it is this....

A House Divided against Its Self Shall Fall.

House of Humankind or Primates Are You Divided against Each Other?

What is your Destiny?

The future for each Primate is Not looking good is it he only finds death in the end. Perhaps then he might learn when no air will enter his lungs and all is taken from him.

What Now is in Control then?

The Universe will still go on, no matter what you believe, and your beliefs will have No effect what soever. Hell no one will even know you have been or gone in a few years.

But as for me I am the eternal optimist!

There is only One, that can win here, and it is certainly not The Primate, nor is it a god that is invented by human Primates, But only the one that started All.

But what is it that provided the Motivation and instigated the whole thing?

Without Motivation and Instigation nothing takes Place.

Something evolved but it was Not the Primate but Life as in The True Mind or Consciousness.

If this were Not the Case You are Not Conscious of anything at all.

I would hate to think you or I am Not Conscious.

But rather than believing as religious bigots, why not look at the Possibility
that "Life" is not cellular but is in fact the observer and Not the Cellular Structure.

I claim, that it was Consciousness, that Evolved and Not your Universe or any Primate.

The All does Not have to ask permission of a Human Primate if it can exist or Not, or if a future can be available or Not... LOL..

Human primates believe in all foolishness they are in Control but a little death takes this B.S. away But "Life" goes on even if Your Planet ceased to exist.

Hell take a ride a few millions of Km away from your earth and tell me now what you see, you won't even be able to point to your little planet.

How do you account for the Second that is in front of you, has been produced for your existence to move into.

If Future did Not exist then al,l and I mean all, would disappear, as it would past the moment of being.



posted on Oct, 31 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by TruthParadox
 


There is a big difference between intelligence and intellectualism. One can be smart but still be uneducated. These polls were showing the connection between education level and belief in creationism.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
A House Divided against Its Self Shall Fall.


This doesn't apply to in evolution. Some animals form social groups. These social groups always become divided against themselves when two or more leaders are rising out of the pack. The group will either resolve the conflict or split up into smaller groups and separate, not fall. These conflicts never end in ALL meeting an end.

I think this reasoning coming from christians is perplexing (not assuming you are christian). They say "A House Divided against Its Self Shall Fall" but the spirit world is divided against itself, 'Good vs. Evil'. Surely they would fall if that rule was true.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Yes you are Correct and Every 1,000 years there are massive changes in our environment and Social structures.

The Last time brought about the dark ages and whole cities were abandoned and became overgrown with jungle but Life goes on.

The Earth is on the brink of this again and how we come out of it is dependant on our conformity to what we are in.

Many will come to their end and some will survive, but I see this as more about a revolution involving what we really are, and a new understanding of what our environment is really about.

Whatever happens, what will come out of it will affect humankind in such a way they will behave in a totally different way than now.

I am Not speaking in a religious sense as I would Not call myself religious, even though many would accuse me of being religious, in their own ignorance of my true nature.

I do know, that The True Mind is Not part of the human species, or any other species, but exists even if there was no universe.

I know this from R&D I am involved in myself.

What you refer to as your Mind is actually a droplet of what I call the True Mind.

It is this Mind that has created Virtual reality that is what you refer to as the Universe.

So collectively we all created this Program and have entered into it but we have forgotten as we are all as though sleeping which the ancients call death, but we are all awakening and are coming to know the truth again.

This is why we communicate like this, as secretly we all desire to find our so called root.

The human Brain, is Not conscious but it is merely a Decoder/encoder for The True Mind Consciousness

If the Brain was Conscious it you would be able to tell exactly the location of each thought comes from but I challenge any person to locate the exact location of their thought at any time.

Yes we can detect alpha waves and brain activity but this only shows the activity of decoding and Not the origin of thought.

In some countries this is generally accepted by those in medical Science, especially in neurology.

At the End of the Day this Universe is Only a Geometric experience of interactive Geometry and here we find a clue to the Truth.

No Matter what the content whether in history, or manifestation of so called Physical nature, at the end of the day it is all an experience in Geometric interaction, that is seriously complex to us.

What produced this is also Geometric in its existence and it is this that has evolved.

In all countries you can find reference to genetic changes that have taken place about 5,000 years ago as a result of interbreeding with a number of species that were from the sky that introduced our different nationalities today.

Most of these stories say, there was 200 different species, that came to the Earth and crossed with the human species.

But who knows these may be fiction but there again.....

Is this what Governments are trying to hide?

If so for what reasons.

Perhaps they may be trying to protect some ones interests that are Alien for fear of invasion of another undesirable species.

Maybe fiction or Truth ??????

Any thoughts on this.




[edit on 1-11-2008 by The Matrix Traveller]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Yes you are Correct and Every 1,000 years there are massive changes in our environment and Social structures.

The Last time brought about the dark ages and whole cities were abandoned and became overgrown with jungle but Life goes on.


This sparked something in my brain.

Anti-intellectualism is a sociological virus, not dissimilar to the flu, it changes form every time and becomes invisible to the immune system. An infection or corruption like this is what brings down societies every single time.

If it takes hold of America, there will be spore-er missionaries sent to our nations (UK, NZ, Oz, Cand etc.) and a pandemic could throw western society into the next dark-age. The Islamic nations are a modern day example of what an anti-intellectual infection can do to a society.

Left unchecked, anti-intellectualism posses a real threat to all that I hold dear.

[edit on 11/1/2008 by Good Wolf]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 06:22 AM
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reply to post by Good Wolf
 


Again you are correct....



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 07:03 AM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 

but it would be the medieval era


the dark ages were 470AD up until roughly 800AD and medieval went 800 up to 14/15th century



The Universe will still go on, no matter what you believe, and your beliefs will have No effect what soever. Hell no one will even know you have been or gone in a few years.
but we find our salvation in the middle with reproduction

and our genetics and offspring live on, knowing we existed or the desire to be known is our concious's effort to meet our survivalist goal of our genes living on

a phobia is our suvival instinct working beyond what is needed, it got stuck in the on position

with conciousness our survival instinct got stuck in the on position and became a concious construct to express its self, where we desire us to live on forever rather then just our gene's


Something evolved but it was Not the Primate but Life as in The True Mind or Consciousness.

If this were Not the Case You are Not Conscious of anything at all.

I would hate to think you or I am Not Conscious.


you give the concious mind to much credit, the act of the concioius mind often fights the unconcious(which is the bit that does everything and i mean everything) casuing anxiety and indicission its responsible for many of todays psychological problems

which is why hypnotherapy and NLP have better success rates then the standardised psychology of sit around and talk about it

it cuts out the middle man and deals straight with the controller mechanism, then by using the controler mechanism to alter its message to fool the conciouseness and stop find a way to reconcile the internal conflict

conciousness has many benefits but it also gets in the way alot and tries to interfere and when it cant get its way thats when problems occur

i agree with the disease of the mind analogy though

with carriers spreading it and infecting others with a stronger dose of religeous faith they may already have or infecting new people

if you class moderate reliegon as a cold anf fundamentalism as the flu, having the cold already weakens you to the influence of the flu

see told you you give to much credit to the concious mind, religeon and thinking in naratives is a result of the concious wolly thinking

maybe we can convince the world health organisation to class fundamentalism as a pandemic and we can ship them all off to quarantine on an island and fly in medical supplies and psychologists/hypnotherapists to treat the illness

[edit on 1/11/08 by noobfun]

[edit on 1/11/08 by noobfun]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 08:53 AM
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Why do creationism and evolution have to be mutually exclusive. As with most things the truth lies between the extremes. Is it possible that a universal intelligence exists and used evolution as a tool in its creation. I know this takes all the fun out of a good argument and some people really enjoy it. But we are faced with 2 facts, I will call them facts although some may disagree. One is fact of evolution and the other is that there seems to be an unseen force at work in our lives call it what you like. This theory would reconcile the differences and I think both sides could possibly find room in each others theories for this as a possibility.

To answer your question. It would appear at this time that they both are anti each other. At least as presented in this thread by some poster. S&S




IV. THE PRINCIPLE OF POLARITY

"Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes meet; all truths are but half-truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled."--The Kybalion.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by rken2
 


There is not middle grown between christian fundamental creationism and evolution, they're mutually exclusive.

But there does exist a concept called "Theistic Evolution", ie evolution is just another of God's natural processes.

But read closer, youll see this isn't an evolution vs creationism thread.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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I read most of the posts, not all, and it appear that they mainly focused on evolution vs . creationism. Biblical creationism doesn't have to be anti intellectual, it all depends on one's view point.

I can see Mankind in the garden as an animal which evolved and became self aware and moved out of the natural state of most animals. knowing right from wrong, tilling the soil and being able to perceive of his own demise.

But for the most part I agree as creationism is taught by most churches it is anti-intellectualism.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by rken2]



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by rken2
 


thats becasue serious efforts were made to derail it into an evolution V's creationism debate


your view is a quasi theist evolution

as you jump to animals already running around

its fundamntelist creationism that this topic views as possibley anti-interlectualism

the 7 days god points a finger and horses appear then he wiggles his nose and otters appear thinking

that all the animals are exactly as god created them no evolution allowed



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by rken2
 


Let me explain something for you. The most absolutely literalist fundamental christian creationists believe genesis happened as stated, every word.

These people believe that evolution is creation without god, like a god-substitue. And they believe creationism is god without evolution.

They can't put it together and will og so far as to say:

"No apparent, perceived, or claimed interpretation of evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record."

To hold the said belief (if it disagrees with the bible it is automatically wrong) is exactly what anti-intellectualism is. This conspiracy topic is about that inherent anti-intellectualism and it's (super) negative effect on society.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 09:38 AM
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yes the 7 days of creation if taken literally is quite limiting, but if taken as a story that represents something else than it opens up other possibilities. Such as how long is a day. Some say in the bible a day is a thousand years. I suspect that this is not the case and a day in this case would represent much more time. It would be hard for an intellect of the time to have the level of knowledge we have about the working of the universe but they were aware of cycles ie. the seasons, the progression of the sun through the zodical signs. In some easten texts we can find evidence that they were aware of cycle lasting hundred of thousands of years. But as you say this not the case with christianity as a whole.



posted on Nov, 1 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by noobfun
 


Thanks for your input on that. Maybe you could listen to the link below and tell me your thoughts:

uk.youtube.com...



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