Is Svali legit?

reply to post by FreedomEntered


I agree totally, Freedom; it is very sad. There seems to be someone, a spouse, "friend," doctor, etc behind most of these people that promote them to "speak out" as part of their "therapy"..What ends up happening, in so many examples that we know of, is that these poor people force themselves to "remember" this stuff because they don't want to "resist the wishes of the people trying to help them" and create these insanely perverted tales of abuse. It is a sad business, for sure.

But if its a form of abuse, by the doctors, therapists, religious folk, or media people, then this should at least tell you that these people do indeed abuse weaker people in many different capacities, and some are left out of public view. So the MK Ultra victims are also people who you think create stories? Or do you think the CIA etc were involved in mind experiments .. I think a few have gone to court in the USA. To make statements and so on about this.

Do you not think these fictional stories are used perhaps to teach people about whats really going on. An allegory. My point is it may not be quite as extreme as what they say it is.

Or would you rather they just disappear? Since there isnt as you said a shred of evidence.

Religious people talk in fictional ways as most have no evidence of the stories they relate to others. They rarely know the exact and entire truth, so they tend to babble often but at times they are right on the money.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
But if its a form of abuse, by the doctors, therapists, religious folk, or media people, then this should at least tell you that these people do indeed abuse weaker people in many different capacities, and some are left out of public view. So the MK Ultra victims are also people who you think create stories? Or do you think the CIA etc were involved in mind experiments .. I think a few have gone to court in the USA. To make statements and so on about this.

Do you not think these fictional stories are used perhaps to teach people about whats really going on. An allegory. My point is it may not be quite as extreme as what they say it is.

Freedom,

MK Ultra was real. I don't think there is anyone who disputes that... However, it was not as insidious or successful as the CT's want you to believe. Below is a comment I made in another post/thread, but it applies to the MK Ultra conspiracy, in general:

There are a lot of claims about the methods that are used to program a human being. But there are seemingly none which support the mechanics to explain how these claims are possible. As a scientist, I cannot go to my fellow colleagues making wild, fantastic claims and not provide the supporting research to show how I came to my conclusion. Science must be repeatable and clearly delineated or it is not "science" at all. The theories of Wheeler, Springmeier, and others seem very plausible until you hold them up to the filter of human physiology. Human cells and DNA are very individuated. This is why you have so many varied side effects of medication and it is so well documented that "what works for one individual doesn't work for everyone." The human brain is the least understood organ in the body, as well as the one which receives the most funding for research. To say that a secret, finite group of scientists were able to successfully "program a person like a computer" back in the 50's and 60's when we don't even possess the medical understanding to do that with today's knowledge and technology is laughable. And MY BELIEF that they were truly unsuccessful in these attempts (and yes, I agree that they DID make attempts) is the reason why none of these "whistleblowers" have ever been able to come forward with any scientific explanation of HOW this was accomplished physiologically in the body.

Furthermore, I personally know the process for how government funding for scientific research is done. I know this process intimately... Because such funding is so highly competitive, there are clear milestones that MUST be met and progress maintained or those dollars will disappear like the Australian drought. Happens to scientists all the time....even those working on research related to defense because for every scientist with a good theory, there are 10 more standing behind him with their own "good theories."

This is the way the world of science, research, and government operate. You want proof of that? It isn't so simple and easy to publish a white paper on how that works...it is something you EXPERIENCE as you live it and other scientists will agree. However, making a claim such as the ones by Wheeler and Springmeier CAN be documented, explained, and supported by a white paper because they are or should be concrete mechanisms. The supposition that they don't exist seems to conclude it is because their underlying claims are nothing more than that....

Also take a look at this post and my response under it - www.abovetopsecret.com...

You'll see there are many holes in the "theory" that you can successful program a human being to the level that the CT's want you to believe.

reply to post by FreedomEntered


BTW, I wanted to add that I do not believe that every person who makes a claim is "making up a story." I believe many of them believe they are real.... But believing they are real does NOT make them true.

Check out this woman's story for an explanation of how this can happen:

My Lie: A True story of False Memory

Whats a CT?

Yes, Im aware of the false memory syndrome accurance. It happens that when in therapy, some people start to imagine things, already being in a perhaps dellusional state, and a therapist can easily manipulate this to their own ends. Especially with a weak mind. I think that, the programming the Cisco Wheeler mentioned in detail is very complex, the colors, and the stories, think he mentions the wizard of oz and trigger words.

As you said this is similar to turning a human into robotic type behaviours.

Originally posted by STTF1
reply to post by King Seesar

 

I'm saying if anyone believes that there can be 3 million people involved in this "conspiracy" and ZERO evidence of what "Svali," et al, says, then they're quite gullible. People LOVE to believe this stuff, I can understand that, it's "interesting." I'm sure that some (most?) of the things that Svali talks about probably are TRUE!. But not in a co-ordinated system like so many CT'ers like to believe.
People are stupid, mean, viscious, cruel, mentally damaged, etc etc etc, and do horrible things to each other every day around the world. That doesn't = A Coordinated team effort on behalf of Lucifer by the "Illuminati."

You bring up valid points even some that i agree with first of there's no way that the powers that be Illuminati or whatever you want to call them these days are nearly as organized in a tight structure like some people claim i see it as a bunch of groups/cabals all grasping for power within different industries that scratch each others back for a lack of a better word, so what we have is organized chaos where dot A/group might not connect directly to dot B/group but the dot A group connects to the dot K group which connects to the dot B group and so on, so yea some of your points are indeed valid.....

reply to post by King Seesar


You can tell the disinfo people when they start tag - teaming eachother.

Look in to the Franklin case in Nebraska, the Presidio case in San Francisco ....
Look into the Jesuits HISTORY.....

The Cia is controlled by the black pope at the vatican, such are Fbi, Mossad, M26,....
Look at the silly satanic spectacle that was the 2012 halftime show with Madonna and tell me the satanists think we're all that dumb and that we'll just be "hynotized" to think this crap is o.k.?

People like alex jones will talk about the illuminati, but won't name names..... Look at the members of the CFR, trilateral commission.... see who the closet satanists are and then.....

Seriously LOOK INTO THE HISTORY OF THE JESUITS.......

protocols of zion, don't use google as a search tool....

You'll be amazed at the evidence out there.

How many children go missing everyday in USA? Multiply that by hundreds when you look at third world countries....

reply to post by CIAGypsy


If you don't think the AMA and psychologist community isn't in on the game, you're crazy.

Look at the new "diagnosis" that are going to be put into the DSM this year, and look at all the evidence linking anti-depressants into homicidal/suicidal thoughts of individuals.

Originally posted by STTF1
There are many many reasons why this story is so obviously fabricated.

One reason I always notice is the constant mention of Christianity as if that is going to somehow help. There was a frog in a pot of water, and the water was heating up slowly, and the frog was being told to relax and believe in the frog god who would help the little frog. So the frog put all his belief and faith in the frog god, as the water got hotter and hotter, and eventually the little frog was dead. The frog was being pacified. He was being fooled into inactivity.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by King Seesar

 

You can tell the disinfo people when they start tag - teaming eachother.

Look in to the Franklin case in Nebraska, the Presidio case in San Francisco ....
Look into the Jesuits HISTORY.....

The Cia is controlled by the black pope at the vatican, such are Fbi, Mossad, M26,....
Look at the silly satanic spectacle that was the 2012 halftime show with Madonna and tell me the satanists think we're all that dumb and that we'll just be "hynotized" to think this crap is o.k.?

People like alex jones will talk about the illuminati, but won't name names..... Look at the members of the CFR, trilateral commission.... see who the closet satanists are and then.....

Seriously LOOK INTO THE HISTORY OF THE JESUITS.......

protocols of zion, don't use google as a search tool....

You'll be amazed at the evidence out there.

How many children go missing everyday in USA? Multiply that by hundreds when you look at third world countries....

Oh yea i have done my research on this topic and you are correct everyone you named plays a part in the Illuminati/TPTB/cabal but it gos deeper there's a few industries you forgot to include that have there point men infiltrated there as well....

I was just breaking down my thesis on how the whole structure works within the main frame of the powers that be, but your point was valid and i agree....

reply to post by Happy1


The protocols if zion was anti semitic crap.as to the likes of Madonna. How do you know where on the pyramid she is.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
Whats a CT?

Yes, Im aware of the false memory syndrome accurance. It happens that when in therapy, some people start to imagine things, already being in a perhaps dellusional state, and a therapist can easily manipulate this to their own ends. Especially with a weak mind. I think that, the programming the Cisco Wheeler mentioned in detail is very complex, the colors, and the stories, think he mentions the wizard of oz and trigger words.

As you said this is similar to turning a human into robotic type behaviours.

CT = Conspiracy Theorist

I'm not sure you followed the link I provided, but it directly discusses the improbability of the programming that Wheeler mentions (colors, stories, triggers, etc...). The link is a post by GENERAL EYES, a forum moderator, who makes some very astute observations. Let me also add that I am an engineer and physicist. I have done neurological research on projects through two universities, a private organization, and government. The type of "programming" that Wheeler claims is not physiologically possible. I explained this in my posts...even giving explanations that a layman can understand as to WHY it is not possible. My posts also emphasized that NOT ONE ACCUSER of this conspiracy can provide scientific proof of even HOW this alleged programming is carried out. It is simply not physiologically possible.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by CIAGypsy

 

If you don't think the AMA and psychologist community isn't in on the game, you're crazy.

Look at the new "diagnosis" that are going to be put into the DSM this year, and look at all the evidence linking anti-depressants into homicidal/suicidal thoughts of individuals.

There are over 850,000 doctors in the US and over 93,000 psychologists in the US. That's awful lot of people to maintain a conspiracy and not let the cat out of the bag.....

reply to post by Happy1


It's true that the protocols of zion have been proven false but the other things you mention your pretty much spot on with alot of it....

The thing is there's only about between 50,000 to 500,000 that are involved in this world wide and i would say it's on the lower end and out of those people only about 20,000 know the full objective of what each cabals plan basically is and they have there people stationed within different industries people i like to call "point men" that are maintaining the objective for that particular cabals interest and the point men have contacts within other industries point men and you pretty much get the idea of how the thing works in my opinion...

But your right some elements are based on black op's and there is point men within every group you mentioned...

reply to post by King Seesar


And what is your basis for these numbers you pull out of the air?

reply to post by CIAGypsy


Nice to see you again too CIAGypsy, now to your question i look at how everything is, including the Bilderbergers Trilateral Commission and others and i figure who would be be ahead of them or keep there secrets and others among different industries, and along with all the research i did on whatever you want to call this group lumped together TPTB Illuminati Cabals ect ect, and just used common sense.. in order for this to work there can't be as many people in the know as some claim i mean the numbers you came up with on doctors proves this...

However i do believe parts of what Cisco Wheeler Cathy O'Brien have said and even believe more of what Fritz Springmeier and Ted Gunderson have to say and i see mock sacrifices happening at Bohemian Grove and please no there just having fun doing a mock sacrifice it's world leaders and heads of industries doing this and that's strange no mater anyway you want to cut it, anyway i took everything i learned on my journey threw out the parts that didn't make sense and came up with in my opinion how they work and what a logical number would be in terms of how many people are involved including every country in the world and to what extent are they involved and how many of those invovled are truly in the know...

reply to post by CIAGypsy


I missed the link to your friends blog as to why svali type programming is physically impossible. Can you link it again pls?

reply to post by CIAGypsy



Yea i would be interested in seeing that blog also, because i think certain parts of what Fritz Springmeier says can absolutely be done i mean we have seen shows were people are just hypnotized out of thin air and they do things they don't remember let alone a whole process of prepping a victim, also does your friend who writes this blog take into account certain technologies that have been created for things some what similar to this???

reply to post by FreedomEntered


Freedom,

Here is the information to which I was referring:

Originally posted by CIAGypsy

There are a lot of claims about the methods that are used to program a human being. But there are seemingly none which support the mechanics to explain how these claims are possible. As a scientist, I cannot go to my fellow colleagues making wild, fantastic claims and not provide the supporting research to show how I came to my conclusion. Science must be repeatable and clearly delineated or it is not "science" at all. The theories of Wheeler, Springmeier, and others seem very plausible until you hold them up to the filter of human physiology. Human cells and DNA are very individuated. This is why you have so many varied side effects of medication and it is so well documented that "what works for one individual doesn't work for everyone." The human brain is the least understood organ in the body, as well as the one which receives the most funding for research. To say that a secret, finite group of scientists were able to successfully "program a person like a computer" back in the 50's and 60's when we don't even possess the medical understanding to do that with today's knowledge and technology is laughable. And MY BELIEF that they were truly unsuccessful in these attempts (and yes, I agree that they DID make attempts) is the reason why none of these "whistleblowers" have ever been able to come forward with any scientific explanation of HOW this was accomplished physiologically in the body.

And then this:

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES

Thank you for bringing this skepticism to light...

As I understand it, the only "programming" that comes through from the Cisco-Wheeler/Springmeier programming methodology is a thoroughly confused and disoriented, delusional and whacked out individual.

It seems odd that such a "high level system of Programmers" would use the EXACT same code system for each and every "slave/handler" scenario....to do so would compromise the very concept of Master/Slave if any slave were able to be accessed by any one at will.

Case in point - why would a "high level slave" be given standard access codes across the board? It would make sense that such a slave would be programmed with an entirely unique set of codes so as to keep their access to a minimum of approved handlers.

A sneaky bit of work, that one...it almost sets the stage and let's abusers and victims pick their roles voluntarily.

To which I responded with:

Originally posted by CIAGypsy

That's a very good point that I hadn't considered.... Even looking beyond the physiological weaknesses of the allegation, if someone is "programming" an object...be it a computer, a person, whatever....there are a lot of complex "protocols" that are used for redundancy, security, etc... There would be so much variation in how that was designed, built, tested, and deployed. Just as there is in the IT infrastructure today. Think about it.... There are entire colleges, industries, commerce, and careers surrounding these specificities involving a piece of electronics. Can you imagine how complicated that would be to overlay those same dynamics and mesh not just the same philosophies and structures, but further complicate those things by involving human physiology? Electronics work on a concrete binary system. Human biology and cellular signal transmission are far from concrete.

Running out of room. I will post the rest of this in another post....

reply to post by FreedomEntered


Then...under the link I posted My Life: A True Story of False Memory, there is a discussion between the author, doug, and poster. The poster asks:

Phoenix November 29, 2010 12:35 pm

Very nice discussion….

So now I have a question I’d like to put up for debate. Let’s discuss the process of memories and trauma. Doug, you’ve mentioned on your site and in articles that it is absolutely normal for a person’s memories to be skewed or even forgotten when they are under stress. Do you agree? I think everyone would agree that childhood sexual abuse is considerably stressful to its victims. So logic would lead us to conclude that victims of CSA have memories which may not be complete or may be skewed due to the nature of stress on the victim.

Therefore, what do you think this means to identifying real versus false claims of abuse? Do you only cast doubt on a victim’s memories if they are “uncovered” in therapy? And what, exactly, does “uncovered” mean? Do you feel it is not possible that a victim, under stress, may repress memories at all? If you think its possible, do you feel that those memories are forever out of reach? Or simply no longer reliable? What do you think of memories that the victim has always carried (i.e. not repressed or “recovered”)? Do you think they are unreliable?

I’m curious to understand your point of view on this matter. As I mentioned before, I’m neither a believer or disbeliever. I think unilateral opinions on anything are false generalizations that do no one a service.

To which doug replied:

phoenix -
thanks for that question.
i think it’s important to draw a clear distinction between incomplete memories and repressed memories. incomplete memories are not unexpected regarding traumatic events due to the attentional hyper-focus for central aspects at the expense of lesser details. for example, a person may be mugged by a man with a gun and be unable to recall the aggressor’s facial features, but he/she may be able to recall the gun itself in vivid detail. the focus can be so singly directed at the gun that other elements are disregarded. the idea that these details could be recalled during hypnosis, or any other type of recovered memory therapy is almost surely entirely wrong, as these details most likely were never coded into any memory at all. it is not common for an individual to forget the trauma altogether. intense emotion, stress, seem to enhance memories for traumatic events rather than diminish them. arguably, this is the very nature of post-traumatic stress: unwanted and vivid recall of highly stressful events remembered only too clearly. ironically, the theory of repression seems to have been inappropriately devolved from the realization that PTSD subjects display an absent-mindedness and marked forgetfulness for mundane daily events. this could be because their minds are preoccupied with past trauma far too often. somewhere along the way, this forgetting among PTSD subjects came to be wrongly used as supporting evidence that the trauma itself may be repressed, or forgotten. there is something called “psychogenic amnesia”, and though some advocates of repression theory will claim that psychogenic amnesia and repression are one and the same, this simply isn’t true. the not-so-common psychogenic case displays their amnesia directly following the trauma, and this is concurrent with massive retrograde amnesia. it involves a loss of personal identity, and it very rarely lasts too terribly long (i think a couple of weeks in one recorded case). to be sure, the psychogenic amnesiac isn’t carrying about daily affairs with no one any the wiser that something is wrong. the tell-tale concurrent problems manifested in psychogenic amnesia make sense if you’ve ever studied the brain. highly dubious is the idea that specific memories may be neatly redacted from autobiographical memory.
as for “identifying real versus false claims of abuse”, this is actually a question i’ve continually put to those who advance repression theory, and i’ve had no satisfactory answer from any of them. any time i meet a group of self-proclaimed ritual abuse victims or people who feel they were abducted by aliens, there seem to be liars and the otherwise mentally deranged represented among them, but not always. they believe their tales, and if we can not distinguish a legitimate recovered memory from any of their confabulations, we certainly can not accept recovered memories in and of themselves as evidence of their own veracity. corroboration is a must.
an indispensable resource in this discussion is the book ‘remembering trauma’ by professor richard mcnally, who has been good enough to speak with me and answer many of my questions

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