India's Chandrayaan Blasts Off To The Moon!

reply to post by ziggystar60


The best of the best science fiction is always based more on human nature and society than the "science" part of it. The best writers use the science and how it affects society as a means of studying human nature.

Of course, there is a lot of garbage that gets thrown into the classification basket along with the good stuff. Gotta stay away from that.

Originally posted by contradunce
I did open up a few links on the ISIS 3 site, but it sort of went over my head.

Yes, it's a little hard to digest.

But can a pixel of an image of the Clementine picture be considered equivalent to a pixel of the image of Chandrayaan?

I did not compared the pixels, I compared the distance between two known points.


The above 455 pixels between one rim of the crater and the opposite rim of the smaller crater were used as the comparison.


The same distance (as far as I can see in the lower resolution Clementine image) has only 95 pixels, but as the Clementine image has resolution information, Isis can convert those pixels into metres, converting them to 10700 metres. That gives a resolution of 10700/95=112 metres per pixel (from what I have seen, the resolution is slightly worse on the photos from the poles, I suppose that is because of the fact that the orbit was not a perfect circle around the Moon but it was slightly farther away over the poles).

Knowing that the distance is 10700 metres, the Chandrayaan 1 photo, with its 455 pixels, has a resolution of 10700/455=23 metres per pixel.

I hope this explanation is clearer than my first explanation.

I read something in your link of special pixels. So it's possible to have special pixels in use that make equivalence an assumption?

No, special pixels in Isis are pixels that have values that should not be considered, either because the reached the limit of the sensor or because the processing of the image made them reach those values.

See it like when we have an LCD screen with one dead or always on pixel, that would be a special pixel because of the hardware, while when Mikesingh, for example, overuses the contrast tool (something he likes to do ), some pixels are turned into pure white and other pixels in pure black; those would be special pixels after processing.

At least this is what I understood of what I have read up to now.

Can the resolution of the TMC be increased or decreased by some controls from ISTRAC.

The resolution can always be decreased, they have only to put more pixels working together, but I do not know if the cameras on board Chandrayaan 1 have that system, it is a good system to have better sensibility while loosing some resolution.

PS: you can see bellow the measurement in metres in the program used, QView (Isis is not a program, it's a collection of several programs, QView is one of them).



Edit: I forgot to say that I added the text with Paint Shop Pro, it was not done with any Isis program. Just another thing, for those that may be wondering about it, Isis does not run on Windows, only Unix and Unix-like operating systems, I have it running on Ubuntu.

[edit on 22/11/2008 by ArMaP]

Originally posted by sentinel2107

Originally posted by wolfgang1711
The other day I have bleak memory of a press conference going on between ISRO and newschannels.
ISRO said, it will take another 1 month or so to bring out the TMC pics and data to be available to public.

Hmm... but anti-anomaly(aka anomaly-busting) software should not take that long, what with the zippy hardware we got these days.

Darn! Is this a one line post?

Line 2:

Anyway, I always knew that all these guys were in cahoots!

Cheers!

Originally posted by mikesingh

Darn! Is this a one line post?

Line 2:

Anyway, I always knew that all these guys were in cahoots!

Cheers!

Hey, whats with this "one line post" thing? I have been noticing such references in a number of posts since long.

Originally posted by sentinel2107
Hey, whats with this "one line post" thing? I have been noticing such references in a number of posts since long.

For a one line post you either can:

> Earn the wrath of a mod by getting a rap on the knuckles and warned of dire consequences if repeated.

OR

> A 500 point deduction from your piggy bank! Like losing 500 lbs of ballast making you head for the troposphere where you could die due to lack of oxygen!

Either way, you're screwed!!

Cheers!

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by ziggystar60

 

Ziggy, you've got to read some science fiction. Robert Heinlein wrote The Man Who Sold the Moon in 1949.

Harriman also has to tackle political problems. If getting to the Moon becomes an international political issue, it will sap his resources and leave him open to espionage and sabotage. He also aims to keep the Moon out of government ownership, something that will be impossible if he claims it on behalf of the United States[2]. Noting that the Moon passes directly overhead only in a narrow band north and south of the equator, he looks to common law which holds that property rights extend to infinity above a land parcel. On that basis, Mexico, Central and parts of South America, and corresponding countries in those latitudes around the world, have a claim on the Moon. The USA also has a claim, thanks to Florida and Texas extending into the band[3]. Starting a campaign around the world for countries to assert their rights in this matter, he engineers a compromise whereby the United Nations will manage the Moon, through one of its chartered corporations. Needless to say, Harriman owns the corporation.

en.wikipedia.org...

Get a load of this!! And it ain't fiction!!

Become A Lunar Land Owner Today!

It is true. You too can become a Lunar land owner by purchasing acres of land on the Moon. THE LUNAR EMBASSY has been selling land on the Moon for the past 22 years. They were THE FIRST and THE ONLY COMPANY in the world to possess a legal basis and copyright for the sale of Lunar and other extraterrestrial property within the confines of our solar system.

Excellent Gift For Any Occasion!

Give the top rated gift that is loved by over 250 very well known celebrities, more than 30 past and present members of NASA, 2 former US Presidents and over 2 million average everyday people from around the world. What could be more unique than giving someone an acre on the Moon? For the average person, an acre on the Moon is an excellent gift and great conversation piece. But many corporations such as Marriott have purchased thousands of acres on the Moon for investment purposes, Lunar exploration and future development.

What the....?



[edit on 23-11-2008 by mikesingh]

reply to post by mikesingh


I actually know someone who owns a piece of "land" up there.
Not sure what he is going to do with it, though...

Well they won't be mining, because the mineral rights are already sewn up... have been for 35 years by a ruling in the World Justice Court in the Hague

Originally posted by ziggystar60
reply to post by mikesingh

 

I actually know someone who owns a piece of "land" up there.
Not sure what he is going to do with it, though...

Wow! How much did he buy that for?? I think I'll apply too! Wonder what the registration fees are?

Armap many thanks again. However i was assuming ISIS 3 was giving you the Pixel count for the range in the Clementine and Chandrayaan picutres. I'm a little confused how you got 455 pixels for the Chandrayaan photograph. Was thinking thats through the ISIS program.

Apologies if i sound dense, i am an absolute layman in this area of image processing and stuff. Your informative postings only evoked a latent curiosity on how you managed so elegantly to arrive at the resolution.

Also another question open for anyone with info..

Is it possible for Deep Space Networks of countries to detect Craft orbiting the Moon. Like can the Chinese or Japanese DSN know or monitor movement of the Chandrayaan. Or can the Indians do the same with the Chang'e or Kaguya?

Was wondering if DSNs only correspond with the frequencies transmitted or recieved from the specific craft, or can they spot other craft in lunar orbits like using those frequencies or like RADAR detection.

reply to post by mikesingh


He told me he payd 50 dollars for it about 10 years ago, through this "real estate dealer":
www.moonshop.com...

Originally posted by contradunce
Also another question open for anyone with info..

Is it possible for Deep Space Networks of countries to detect Craft orbiting the Moon. Like can the Chinese or Japanese DSN know or monitor movement of the Chandrayaan. Or can the Indians do the same with the Chang'e or Kaguya?

Was wondering if DSNs only correspond with the frequencies transmitted or recieved from the specific craft, or can they spot other craft in lunar orbits like using those frequencies or like RADAR detection.

Yep! DSNs can monitor other satellites if they are within the frequency band/proprietary design parameters. But there are regulations that prohibit this without the permission of the host country.

However, usually a request is made by the launch country to another having tracking facilities within the frequency spectrum allocation of the satellite/probe to help track it when out of range due to the screening effect of the Earth as also for redundancy.

Like in Chandrayaan's case, the tracking networks in Port Blair, Mauritius, Brunei, Biak (Indonesia), Bearslake (Russia) as well as external network stations at Goldstone, Applied Physics Laboratory in Maryland, Hawaii, and Brazil were requested to track it and relay the signals to the Spacecraft Control Centre of ISRO Telemetry Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) with the help of the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN).

Needless to say, the signals received from spy satellites are scrambled/encoded making it almost impossible for anyone to eavesdrop or interfere in its transmissions!

Cheers!

[edit on 23-11-2008 by mikesingh]

Thanks Mike! However these transmissions are tracked by DSNs only if they are aware of the frequencies that are transmitted (?). Like India took Japans permission to track Kaguya before launching Chandrayaan to gain experience on a DSN.

I was wondering if they are just frequency transmissions being tracked, why take permission? Quietly track them and no one will know. So is it just taking permission for politeness sake or for the sake of tracking. There is a difference.

Also you mentioned Port Blair, Brunei, Indonesia..i think they are tracking stations for Earth orbit satellites and they are not Deep Space Networks. India's only DSN is in Bayalu village if i am not mistaken.

Cheers!

Originally posted by contradunce
Armap many thanks again. However i was assuming ISIS 3 was giving you the Pixel count for the range in the Clementine and Chandrayaan picutres. I'm a little confused how you got 455 pixels for the Chandrayaan photograph. Was thinking thats through the ISIS program.

Yes, both measurements were reported by ISIS 3.

This is what ISIS 3 shows with the Chandrayaan 1 image.



As you can see on the top right box, it says "455.467" and the unit is "pixels", because this was a common JPEG file converted to be used with ISIS 3.

The Clementine image can also be measured in pixels, but has this had some information added (information about camera parameters, location on the Moon, etc.) the program can convert the pixels to metres.



Hope this helps, I do not understand if I have answered all your questions about these measurements, this is one of those occasions where my knowledge of English shows that it is less than needed to have a full conversation with any person.

Armap i seem to have understood now. ISIS 3 gives you both the pixel and distance. Distance however also can be estimated by other sources like crater dia and then proportionally figuring the distance say in the Chandrayaan picture.

Your explanations have been absolutely correct and so also your English. It is my abysmal knowledge on this responsible for my lack of understanding alone.

Thank you for the insight, it has truly made me appreciate this much better. Can't buy you a beer here, but no worries, will have an extra one for this. Cheers..

[edit on 23-11-2008 by contradunce]

Originally posted by contradunce
I was wondering if they are just frequency transmissions being tracked, why take permission? Quietly track them and no one will know. So is it just taking permission for politeness sake or for the sake of tracking. There is a difference.

All countries have been given a spectrum allocation, because of the limited spectrum resources available.

International and national management of the radio frequency spectrum had its inception at the turn of this century and has grown to be an exceedingly, complex function, inextricably bound to governmental policy and regulation. Geopolitical, legal and economic factors, as well as technical factors influence the development of radio regulations.

The technical factors fundamentally stem from mutual interference considerations which impose certain constraints on users of the radio frequency spectrum. Since the early sixties, the rapid increase in spectrum use by space telecommunications services bag significantly increased the mutual interference problems extant among space services and between space and terrestrial services. Since the geostationary orbit is highly desirable for many space services, the utilization of this resource has become an international concern, and will be a dominant subject in the deliberation of the forthcoming World Administrative Radio conference.

Remember, this isn't applicable only for terrestrial/space, voice/data communication, but also for data links with satellites/space probes.

Also you mentioned Port Blair, Brunei, Indonesia..i think they are tracking stations for Earth orbit satellites and they are not Deep Space Networks. India's only DSN is in Bayalu village if i am not mistaken.

As I mentioned earlier, these 'relay stations' are used only during Earth orbits when the satellite signals cannot be picked up due to the screening effect. Once the probe heads for the Moon, the signals get weak and can be picked up only by the more powerful DSNs. These 'relay' stations sent the signals to to the Spacecraft Control Centre of ISRO Telemetry Tracking and Command Network (ISTRAC) through the Indian Deep Space Network (IDSN).

Cheers!


More

[edit on 23-11-2008 by mikesingh]

Originally posted by zorgon
Well they won't be mining, because the mineral rights are already sewn up... have been for 35 years by a ruling in the World Justice Court in the Hague

Isn't there a possibility of them being un-sewn once the space-faring nations actually start looking at the Moon as the next frontier to be opened up, but which can be achieved only through international collaboration?

Originally posted by sentinel2107

Isn't there a possibility of them being un-sewn once the space-faring nations actually start looking at the Moon as the next frontier to be opened up, but which can be achieved only through international collaboration?

Ummm space faring nations?

Well no worries... Space Command will handle them... the Space NAVY is stronger than you think

Originally posted by mikesingh

For a one line post you either can:

> Earn the wrath of a mod by getting a rap on the knuckles and warned of dire consequences if repeated.

OR

> A 500 point deduction from your piggy bank! Like losing 500 lbs of ballast making you head for the troposphere where you could die due to lack of oxygen!

Either way, you're screwed!!

Cheers!

Strange! Is it specified in ATS's Book of Job? (Handbook they call it, right?)

In my opinion, one liners can be pretty meaningful and impact-ful at the same time. For e.g:

"Hey xxxxxxxx ! You suck big time!'

Not only can the above let loose a slew of posts which can be food for psychologists and sociologists working on their dissertation, it can also have a deep impact on xxxxxxxx personally effecting his subsequent forum-aderie .

[edit on 23/11/2008 by sentinel2107]

Originally posted by mikesingh

Originally posted by TheOneEyedProphet
Hopefully they don't keep secret what they find.
And that impact probe checking minerals and mining sites makes me wonder...

It seems to me they are in a hurry to get there and begin exploiting the minerals that supposedly other nations have done already, or so the legends say...

Yep! The stress is on finding He3 / 4 and exotic metals like titanium. India plans to send astronauts in orbit around the Earth by 2012, men on the Moon by 2015, a full 5 years before America, and start building a Moon base by 2020!

And yes, U.S Astronauts would be welcome to have a beer with the Indians in a bar on their Moon base in 2020!

Mars is on the drawing board and the schedule is being worked out. The Indians seem to be in a tearing hurry, what?

Cheers!

Excellent, nothing like a bit of competition to speed things up a bit. Nasa has had it easy far too long, now China and India are getting involved, it can only mean we'll be seeing many more new interesting news reports about discoveries being made out there in space.