This goes back to what mayberry said about abstraction in his speech where all the reasons he gave were level 4 abstractions and why you keep saying the same drivel about his giveing an eloquent well thought out speech about it. Well thought out yes in that he was careful NOT to say because he is black. That I am sure you'll agree would have been stupid of powell to say so he didn't and any other reasons he gave were all full of colorful pretty adjectives but NONE had anything to do with things like EXPERIENCE, QUALIFICATIONS, ACCOMPLISHMENTS, etc. you know the meat and potatos kind of thing you'd expect from someone like powell. So one can only speculate why he would have over looked all that and his being Black is the most obvious item on the list. Unless of course you really think Powell is that stupid to vote for him merely because Obama is "Charming" .

Powell is saying that Obama has the makings of a brilliant diplomat, and frankly that's not unrealistic. It's unproven, but hardly unrealistic considering his deft use of rhetoric. That is a kind of "meat and potatoes", though. The trouble here seems to be that you disagree with Powell but would rather ascribe that to fanciful allegations of racial favoritism on the part of Powell than wade into the "meat and potatoes" of the subject, if you will. Regardless, to say that he overlooked all that when the fact of the matter is he clearly doesn't measure by the same yardstick as you is presumptive and supremely unprovable, hence my advice: move on.

Powell may be Racist but he aint stupid.

And he may be neither racist nor stupid.

As for the harm this discussion may cause?

You ever listen to an Obama ad ?

TALK ABOUT MIS INFORMATION

It's harmful and irresponsible to fling quasi-slanderous accusations about Powell's motivations. This isn't even a mature discussion, this is a parade of hate. As far as your hand waving on the subject of Obama's ads, why don't you start a thread making your case for how and why just one of Obama's ads is harmful?

And don't forget Scott McClellan, and Barry Goldwater's grand kids, and a couple Republican Govs., and... A bunch of WHITE Republicans. Or will you Republicans claim they are all secretly black like Obama is secretly Muslim?

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim

You didn't even try to answer her point, so your criticism that she hasn't been following the thread strikes me as feeble.

Umm geee Johnny I'm all broken up about you thinking it's feeble umm can YOU tell me what the hell her point was again?? I mean besides being sarcastic. Did she even HAVE a point? Facts don't seem to matter to you so it's no wonder you haven't agreed that the many I have posted here, from Obama's curiously ominous but certainly factual involvement with Communists and Radicals have gone without anyone being able to debunk them so whether YOU BELIEVE them to be true or not doesn't change the fact they are in fact A FACT and FACTS is all I have been interested in here. NOT Flowery adjectives to describe Obama as "electrifying" or whats grand stage he is on or that he is a "new generation" of blacks transforming the figure of President from Black to white but that's the reason Powell is voting for him and that is OBVIOUS or he wouldn't have spent MORE time engaged in his comments being about him being the first Black American President and more about SUBSTANCE! None of that seems to matter and with this guy being THAT close to being "The one" do you actually think someone like Powell is going to let a little thing like lack Qualifications get in the way of "electrifying" the world with this "transformational figure! "

Give me a break sheesh. I wish Race didn't have to be an issue either and is why I am not talking about that POWELL WAS and even admonished all us white folk that we should also be proud. Proud of what Colin?

That he is Black? So what!

I don't think I have seen ONE person give a good reason for voting for the most unqualified, untested, inexperienced man in the worst of times in our history so I'll ask you Johhny, what are YOUR reasons for Voting for them and lets see if you can do any better than Powell who supposedly wrote the most eloquent most common sense reason. '

The man said NOTHING!

Oh and by the way Johhny, I think it's wonderful you think this shouldn't be about race so I am hoping you quit telling me it is for me when it isn't but the moment someone makes their reasons for him being so electrifying about being the first Black President when what he was asked had NOTHING to do with that but more about his resume,, then I am going to say it again that who ever does that makes it about race, and THAT is exactly what Powell did if you read the facts verbatim of what he said.

See you have to listen to these people and you have to look for CONTEXTUAL Inconsistencies articulated as dead giveaways as to what his genuine and honest motivations are for making this choice and they are undeniable.

I find statements like the one you posted alleging Powell said Obama could be a diplomat is indicative of Most who STILL don't KNOW what the hell the reason was when you can't even remember it, do you make up one! Yeah maybe Obama could be an ambassador but we are talking about Presidents. I wouldn't be so indignant but I keep seeing garbage like this all the time.

EXAMPLE: Here is how most describe Powell's comments.

Oct 20, 2008 ... Colin Powell gave the most "brilliant", "insightful", and "glowing" endorsement of Barack Obama and laid out "the most common sense reasons why" he isn't voting McCain ..."

I am still at a loss as to how this guy is holding on to this Job writing such undeserving accolades when Powell's comments only serve to offer anyone with an IOTA of insight the REAL reasons Powell is supporting Obama.

In just one paragraph of flowery verbal gymnastics describing his reasons for endorsing Obama, it isn't only reading between the lines we get what is really important, what really matters most is not just getting a qualified person in Office but one that will make HISTORY as a Transformational figure! The one we have all been waiting for!, Someone by virtue of his being Black and for no other reason as he gives NONE BUT his being a Black guy in the right place at the right time. All his flaws are irrelevant. We must not let small stuff like that get in the way of Highly Respected Colleagues who are more capable having the experience, get in the way of what will be an "Electrifying" "Global" sensation! the most significant historical event then the upcoming eviction of Bush from the white house.

The FIRST BLACK AMERICAN PRESIDENT!

This is something Powell said; not only Blacks should be proud of but Whites too! Hey Colin,,I realize this stinks to high heaven of your own brand of affirmative action but ya know what would make me proud?

A QUALIFIED, ABOVE BOARD AND HONEST BLACK AMERICAN, AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

Not the one everyone deaf dumb and blind is calling the one but an American Born Here and raised as someone respecting an American form of Government Not Socialism.

You can be an eloquent, articulate speaker using a TelePrompTer or giving a speech where you are familiar with the text, flow, where the four second pauses are for anticipated Applause etc. When it comes to speaking about things that have real meaning to us, regardless of their worthiness or virtue, when ever we speak extemporaneously, no matter what it is we are trying to hide, eventually we say something that will show our true colors and in this case, Color, was definitely at the heart of this man's decision and that color is Black.

It appears that I was right about Qualifications, and experience ( Meat and Potatoes etc,) taking a back seat to something OBVIOUSLY MORE SUBSTANTIAL! MORE ELECTRIFYING! That the usual Caucasian "figure" of American Presidents would be "transformed".

That something this big is SO important to Powell that he even uses a form of Holds Harmless clauses in his speech in yet another dead giveaway of his own betrayal of someone he says he has had the Highest Respect for, even saying McCain would be a Good President,, BUT! ,,,, BUT! ,,,, BUT! Ya know John, he has known you for many years says he can trust you that you have all it takes BUT DAMN ya didn't think snubbing Powell for Palin for VP wasn't going to bite you in the ass?

I mean, you should have at least asked him anyway whether he wanted it or not or whether everyone knows he is now and always has been a closet Democrat who was obligated to those who advanced his Career but that all ended with GWB and this was Powell's way to pay back the piper's of the Republican Party as ONE of the most but his indictment of McCain in addition to what his "key" reason for choosing Obama, was so flawed for someone so intelligent that if THIS is a key reason,

I got a Bridge Ill sell ya,

"As a key reason, Powell said: "I would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain administration."

This is a republican saying this?????????? HUH??

So lets look at this from an even more scary reason a Republican like Powell is (yeah,, riiight) would find this scenario much more compelling as a reason to vote for McCain, rather than Obama.

That is,, if you are REALLY a Republican,,

that this would be the first time since 1965 that liberals have dominated the White House, Congress and, potentially, the Supreme Court. Six liberal justices sit on the Supreme Court after the immediate resignation of John Paul Stevens and Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the later resignations of Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy. This happening while the republicans may not even be able to filibuster!

So Powell's "key Reason" wasn't thought out that well and only paints him as a liberal with a liberal Agenda as REAL REASON Number two.

All that and then we have Reason Number three


Now, I am not saying this, but whether Powell knows it or not,, HE SAID IT HIMSELF. that this would be the first time since 1965 that liberals have dominated the White House, Congress and, potentially, the Supreme Court."

an American Figure just getting the black guy IN THERE, is mission accomplished enough to satisfy Powell apparently because THIS GUY,, is the one the same one Powell uses the same adjectives to describe Obama as in the same context he used to describe who ever will become the first Black American President! The same exact words! That it would be a transformational figure on the world stage someone who by virtue of his BEING the first one would electrify the world.


Well sorry to disappoint you Colin and I think I speak for many of the people from Chicago who know how politics are run there,, but Obama doesn't electrify me.

He scares the hell out of me.




[edit on 27-10-2008 by MAINTAL]

Originally posted by Avenginggecko

I'm confused. Do you find it odd that African American's would prefer a candidate that is more like them?

No and THAT has been my point! That us "German and Irish Americans" don't care if the "African American" Powell is voting for him merely because he is Black! it's that people who have asked him this question being about race have asked a loaded question where you hget a loaded answer because SOME people are afraid to hear it like it is.

So rather than say it like it is they choose to make flowery descriptions of the man like being "Electrifying" and transformational but nothing like being qualified or having any experience is mentioned and ya know why?


HE HAS NONE OF THOSE QUALITIES!

and THAT is the reason Powell never gave any of THOSE REASONS!

It is also the reason YOU couldn't say he did either. Don't just claim he gave good reasons when he said nothng but fluff and buttery bullcrap.

If you can cite some of his reasons that are specific to what anyone with a modicum of intelligence and experience has in their own field when looking at a Job Applicant, please do I would LOVE to hear it!

Do you realize education notwithstanding, this guy couldn't rate getting a Job as a manger of a McDonalds with this much empty space on a resume. In fact, if McDonalds were to use the same criteria for management as the average democrat I'd have to promote him having "inspired" me as a white interveiwer and his being Black will be a given he gets the Job with any Black McDonalds employers but they would'nt admit it and I wouldn't blame them.

The problem with that is clearly obvious however and we are talking about a Job requiring more than eloquence if you're white and apparently only skin color if you're black because I still haven't heard one reasonable answer to give this guy that Job predicated on what I have seen them cite as reasons.

The reasons are always shallow from whites and racist under hidden meanings wrapped in semantics from Blacks and Whites with a Black Guilt complex wanting to hide it in political correctness.

As for me? I assure you, I would have NO problem saying I wouldn't vote for Obama because he is Black if that is how I felt. I have much better reasons for not voting for him and those would be the reasons that are missing on his resume and where I come from, we don't even ask what your race is much less care. Powell,, that seems to be the ONLY thing he cares about and none of that "other stuff" the stuff he said he has the highest respect for in McCain matters anymore.

Not with half a month left to go and an unqualified Black man this close to being "the one" the first black man as President. It's sad and it's a terrible way to treat the only man running who has ever really fought for you.

As was said he gave an eloquent glowing (excuse) reason for voting for Obama and a common sense reason for not voting for McCain. You know what he said about McCain was more an inictment for Bush and you know what people say about bum rapping your last employer.

Sheesh you people have no idea NOT a clue to how seriously flawed your arguments are getting

Obama is a rookie senator with a socialist agenda and a heart of ICE, he is well connected in the Chicago Mob and everyone there knows it. He has not been forthcoming about his backround and we have asked so much to hear more about it that it is now become the butt end of jokes and hostility but the questions however REMAIN DELIBERATLY UNANSWERED.

What I do know is Obama is not only wrong for America, he will have us wishing for the good old days when Bush was president.

Mark my words, He is that BAD a choice and I know who he is and what he is about. If this were Russia, I would say no problem, he fits right in. but this is not Russia,

at least NOT YET

















[edit on 27-10-2008 by MAINTAL]

Originally posted by JohnnyElohim

What? Source your claims, for goodness sake. I haven't seen you say a single thing in this thread which is "proven". Who cares that some white folks will vote for a black man? Why does it have to be about race? Damn.

Don't ask ME that question Elohim,, ASK the person who brought it up! I was merely stating what I have seen

Frankly, it doesn't bother me that a marginalized group of people who represent a statistical minority would support a candidate who is likely to share some of their cultural experiences and is thus more likely to support their interests.

Lets rephrase this shall we. taking out all the typical flowery language and get to what it is you're really saying because you are just begining to sound just like Powell and the rest of the liberals using level four abstractions in there usual semantically screwed up drivel

So another words, it doesn't bother you that a marginalized group (Blacks) who represent a statistical minority (Blacks) would support a candidate ( a black Candidate ) who is likely to share some of their Black cultural experiences.

Gee if only that ("blackness") didn't over ride things like EXPERIENCE, Being Qualified for the JOB! you know,, those less important things. I may not be racist Johnny but I am a damn Bigot when it comes to stupid reasons for voting the most unqualified untested and most inexperienced candidate for President in the History of the United States at a time when it is CRITICAL we don't DO that.

Those flowery reasons you and powell give are nothing close to being good enough to over ride common sense and intelligence but that is exactly what I keep seeing and I must say it Baffles the hell out of me.

Any other time I would be Ok with that but times being what they are and that being the only reason Powell can intelligently justify,,

being Black just ain't good enough

No one said you were racist for not supporting Obama. A lot of people have said your vitriol towards Powell is suspect, though.

My vitriol towards Powell? Who says this? Give me names or don't even bother complaining about my not providing referance when you don't provide a single name. I have provided quotes from Obama's own book and documents of public record, news casts etc. none of which has been debunked as you say and although maybereal has tried to twist them and deny them, he has failed miserably to fault a single one.

The only thing I have for powell is indifference and the opinion that he is voting for Obama for the same reason you stated in your flowery paragraph about a common denominator they share and that is,,

they are Black. Case Closed:














[edit on 27-10-2008 by MAINTAL]

Originally posted by SectionEight
Back on topic.
Powel

Powel resigned in shame and disgrace as a failed diplomat. He was a good millitary man, as a diplomat he failed. The last time he stood up with his reputation and asked people to believe him was at the UN with the faulty intelligence reports.

I don't agree with this at all, Powell Resigned because he was used plan and simple. A lie isn't a lie when you think it is the truth and he was lied to and manipulated into giving that speech to the UN.

Now the same people that hated him for it are madly in love with him, gotta love politics and the pure hypocricy.

hehe yeah I know that DOES make it hard to take any of them serious. I remember how mean and nasty Obama and Hillary got and NOW she is defending him and Supporting him??

Makes no sense at all and if their is one thing that hurts a Politician more than mud slinging it is the idea that you after all the dust settles, they just act like nothing happened at all.

What about us though? We are all a part of this and we deserve an explanation for the mud they sling as well as answers to the allegations made. We also deserve to know why we should take them serious not for the mud they throw but for not apologizing unless they are dead wrong. That for the confusion it causes when they turn right around and support them later.

I think if you are going to continue to run Politics in this way, WE DESERVE BETTER than a pack of hypocrites who stand for one thing then fall for anything later. This is what I respected Powell about, that he may have been an unknowing agent in a conspiracy to flim flam the UN but he resigned rather than continue to work with someone he didn't respect.

I just wished he had not allowed his anger to overlap that wonderful sense of Character and integrity he once had where he is now so full of resentment it carries over into a bigotry of Republicans and White people in general. It's sad really because for me, if there was ever a man more qualified to be President, it was him and I would have voted for him without thinking about it a single second. Now pffft he has ruined his reputation more than anything done to him by the republicans. He is tainted, damaged goods now.

Too bad that happens to some of the best out there and he was one of the best and it happened to him

Before, he was blameless because he worked for an idiot

Now, he supports an idiot, so he is without excuse


[edit on 27-10-2008 by MAINTAL]