WARNING! Killing children may ruin your life.

Lots of people join the service because they feel like they can't do anything else. I think that this is a tactic used by recruiters as early as middle school. It'll probably only get easier for them to recruit as jobs get more scarce by the day.

reply to post by king9072


look, i get your POINT. but that study is retarded. people are scum no matter what. if thye'll kill their neighbors the authority figure is irrelevant. they're probably right. screw the neighbors they're the ones that killed your dog and called the cops on your little johnny for riding his tricycle through yoru flowerbed. who cares.

Originally posted by Mozzy
reply to post by king9072

 

look, i get your POINT. but that study is retarded. people are scum no matter what. if thye'll kill their neighbors the authority figure is irrelevant. they're probably right. screw the neighbors they're the ones that killed your dog and called the cops on your little johnny for riding his tricycle through yoru flowerbed. who cares.

Nothing's lost on you eh...

reply to post by Mozzy

I saw a documentary on that university 'psych' experiment. Weird how the subjects became so compliant.
But, if you were in the armed forces and you think someone is going to blow up your checkpoint with a car bomb, you might forget about the warning shots.
The man had children in his car, seemingly playing 'chicken' with those troops.
I think he is at fault for that.

sure, give me a summer reading list too while you're at it. i can't stand watching people like this feeling sorry for the soldiers. especially for the ones killing babies. you can sit here and say how you're anti war and that this post "isn't about that". just look at the replies, it's a mush contest and everyone will take sides with whoever produces the most mush.

i don't see you posting how bad you feel for the d.c. sniper, or the jfk assassin, or any number of other military people that kill americans. i'm sure you'd be posting away about how unfair it is and how everyone's a hero.

reply to post by Clearskies


Good thing you were there to report what happened there for us.

I have, at times, hit the gas instead of the brakes. I never caused an accident. But that small mistake, under stress would be enough to spook the guards to open up with their weapons.

Maybe there was an error in translation?

You were not there, so get off your high horse.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by clay2 baraka]

reply to post by clay2 baraka


I'm not on a 'high horse'. I wasn't 'there'.
I was just trying to see things from this soldiers viewpoint.
Also, from the story, they were ORDERED to fire.
Why would he be affected like he was, if he were a 'cold-blooded' murderer?



[edit on 9-12-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by Mozzy
sure, give me a summer reading list too while you're at it. i can't stand watching people like this feeling sorry for the soldiers. especially for the ones killing babies. you can sit here and say how you're anti war and that this post "isn't about that". just look at the replies, it's a mush contest and everyone will take sides with whoever produces the most mush.

Not once have you made a valid point in this thread. Not once have you contributed to the thread in any way. Not once have you brought forth any evidence. Not once have you made a claim against me, that had reasoning behind it, or was founded at all. And clearly, even now, 2 pages into the replies you still haven't read my post. You've simply skimmed over it.

Perhaps a summer reading list would do you well, to help cure some of your blatant ignorance, as well as prepare you for your next year of highschool.

It isn't the soldiers that decide to go to wars, it isn't the soliders that decide to kill people, its the commanders that do that. The soldiers (once they have signed the contract) are bound legally to perform or face military trial. So they can be suckered into the military by any means, and even if they change their mind while enlisted, they have no choice but to fulfill their duty.

If you don't like the thread, simply don't contribute, and especially don't make attempts to derail the thread with inappropriate high-school type attacks that are with no basis.

i don't see you posting how bad you feel for the d.c. sniper, or the jfk assassin, or any number of other military people that kill americans. i'm sure you'd be posting away about how unfair it is and how everyone's a hero.

I don't know which part of my post said anything about my friend killing an American citizen. Nor does I tell of how he plotted to kill anyone, which is what those lines imply. Furthermore, I am unsure where you come up with the theory that I am calling anyone a hero.

For those who apparently can't or choose not to read any post over a few lines I will summarize my OP.

- My friend joins the military.
- I am not happy with his decision.
- I try and persuade him to leave the military.
- I fail to get him to leave the military.
- He finally goes on a tour of afghanistan.
- Upon orders to fire on a car that refuses to stop at a checkpoint
- They discover children in the back seat who were shot in the barrage
- Friend returns home, really upset with what he had done
- Upset to a point where he relives the moment, has nightmares and must be suffering from some form of depression due to the event or post traumatic stress
- I then urge people to never let people they care for join the military so that this scenario does not play out with them.

Hopefully now, you can be quiet, or constructive.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by king9072]

reply to post by king9072


maybe a summer reading list would do me good, what do you recommend? and no i'm not gonna read your experiment and no i didn't read your whole reply. it doesn't matter, my points are valid because, unlike you, i was in the army. i know what soldiers act like so go stuff yourself.

also, if your op wasn't dripping with emotion such as your "list" that you just provided none of this would've happened. would it?

edit to add: special forces spend most of their time training 3rd world countries how to use certain weapons etc but a lot of the time their popping out of submarines in god knows where doing god knows what. your friend was suckered into it because he was young and dumb. but he also had a PASSION for being young and dumb as you clearly stated several times.

don't expect me to show empathy for that rat punk because he shot up some kids while wearing a US uniform.

[edit on 10-12-2008 by Mozzy]

That'll do guys. On topic, or don't post!

And enough of the personal baiting and sniping. The focus is the actual topic, NOT your fellow members.

Civility and Decorum are Required

Originally posted by Mozzy
reply to post by king9072

 

look, i get your POINT. but that study is retarded. people are scum no matter what. if thye'll kill their neighbors the authority figure is irrelevant. they're probably right. screw the neighbors they're the ones that killed your dog and called the cops on your little johnny for riding his tricycle through yoru flowerbed. who cares.

reply to post by Mozzy



Do you actually have any empathy? any compassion?

I guess not......



To the OP: that's a really sad story and I am afraid it goes on so much more than we are told. My thoughts would be to not give up on him. Your friend going back is the worst possible thing he could do to himself and others.

After all, he is going through tremendous guilt , shame, and self loathing that is probably so intense he can't handle it and probably thinks that going back will give him an opportunity to put things right, but in reality all it is going to do is make life more difficult for him.

I agree with the Milgram Experiments, I have been studying that over the years, and you are 100% right in what you say. Your friend did have a choice but under extreme pressure and psychological warfare he chose the wrong one.

I agree with the poster who cited God , that's a smart way to heal my friend, a smart way indeed

I shall pray for your friend. I hope he doesn't go back for his sake. All you can do is be there for him and maybe seeing a psychiatrist who really understands his predicament might help too.

That really is a shame. My heart truly goes out to your friend. If he is drinking to black out 5 out 7 nights a week, he is definitely in some serious trouble and may need real profession intervention at some point. I really hope he can find a way to get over or deal with this and have a better life.

[edit on 10-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Originally posted by RFBurns
Well maybe you should advise your friend that it wasnt his fault or anyone else's. It was the man driving who is at fault. He should have stopped as requested.

I agree with that totally. It's like those who commit "suicide by police". Deliberately wave a gun at them until they shoot you. Military checkpoints don't take license plate numbers, they fire upon you. Every adult knows that, and I'm sure the driver did too.

My dad never liked me or my friends playing with 'realistic' toy guns when we were kids. They all had to be bright orange or green water pistols or something and shaped like a ray gun. It's because when he was on various tours (I won't say where) he nearly fired on kids, and it was quite common for the adults to give kids REAL weapons, prob unloaded, to play with - the idea being the British soldiers would either have their attention taken by all the kids and miss the car bomb... Or sickeningly, take one of the kids out and cause all the bad press and uproar that would cause

Can't tell you hard hard I got clouted when he saw me and my mate playing 'cowboys' with my mates brothers replica 9mm's.

The senario with the van full of children trying to run past guys with guns repeated itself many times in this war. I myself would not have stopped for any armed men if I had been driving the vehicle. You stop, you die, you drive past, you die. There was not really an option avaliable to the driver. The soldier had an option not to fire, but chose to obey orders to defend the US and make a paycheck.
I know many fine people in the Army but as of late it is being filled with criminals who were given the choice to join or go to jail. They continue their crimes in my town. The entire war is a criminal act.
If the soldier in King's story had been fighting for a real cause, like against Hitler, I think he would have been more proud of his service and overlook the murder. He may have found out he was fighting for big oil and not against an evil entity.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
I just can't stand to see people make the wrong choice, for the wrong reasons.[edit on 12/9/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]

I can’t stand self righteous do-gooders who think they have access to some higher knowledge that means they have a duty to nag on at and talk down to people who consider a military career because they’ve got it into their swollen heads that anyone who does so must either be thick, have low self esteem or a psycho looking to kill someone.

No offence meant.