The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by redhatty

That was the only peacetime inflation period in US history

Don't forget that 95% of the Dollar has been Inflated away since the inception of the Federal Reserve. So inflation has been ongoing. And really the reason for the currencies stability was its gold backing, which ended in 1971. The debasement of the currency has accelerated rapidly in recent years. Hyperinflation is merely the end-game that is reached at some critical point.

reply to post by Donny 4 million
Sir...step away from the bar and clean up yer act!!

There is no new Data...it's Friday Markets are closed....news/recent event mode has been engaged...

[edit on 3/20/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by xoxo stacie


Inflation can happen without an increase in the supply of paper money.

Credit being pulled back is because of the fact that too much credit was created on over-valuation of assets - the ATM in the kitchen phenomenon.

Inflation means basically things get more expensive, and interest rates rise, but your paycheck probably doesn't.

Those of us old enough in the 70's to have savings accounts can remember when we had a MINIMUM of 5% interest on our savings. That was 5% ABOVE PRIME. Saving money (if you can) during an inflationary period can be quite profitable.

Hyperinflation CANNOT occur without an increase in the physical paper money - at least it NEVER has before.

Debit cards and credit cards have replaced most people's use of cash. the "money" exists as 1's and 0's on a ledger in a computer - not as cash on hand.

These systems would have to be eliminated and a conversion back to physical cash resumed before hyperinflation could occur.

Also some way to get the physical money into the hands of the consumer has to be in effect, either through wage increases (and the OPPOSITE is happening right now - wages are decreasing - lots of people getting haircuts on their paychecks) or direct to consumer stimulus (free money from the .gov).

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

For now the solution that goes against inflation is letting go of people. If that wasn't the case, there would be either cuts in salaries, or inflation.

My point being that the money that is being created will go somewhere. It actually can go to the unemployed through gov't progams known as 'unemployment benefits', 'food stamps', 'welfare', 'MCR', etc, etc. Is it really that hard to fathom that money will find its way into the system once created?

reply to post by Hx3_1963


Thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. Even though some of us out here don't have anything "pertinent" to add, it is very disturbing to constantly be interupted by these bizarre and childish insults.

Please, continue. Some of us would like to learn more. BTW, WHERE are these "mods" I keep hearing about?

reply to post by redhatty


Perhaps I'm wrong, but the only thing that resembles hyperinflation nowdays is what happened to people includedand victimized in Ponzi schemes

Originally posted by fullmoonfairy
reply to post by Hx3_1963

 

Thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself. Even though some of us out here don't have anything "pertinent" to add, it is very disturbing to constantly be interupted by these bizarre and childish insults.

Please, continue. Some of us would like to learn more. BTW, WHERE are these "mods" I keep hearing about?

He is drunk

It seems that the FDIC has made some revisions since it Feb 26 09 report. I highlighted the changes. I do believe that the equity decline is the same.

The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) announced the release of a revised Quarterly Banking Profile for the fourth quarter of 2008, citing significant amendments that were received shortly after the issue's original release on February 26.
Updated results reflect substantially higher charges for goodwill impairment in the fourth quarter, which affected the industry's aggregate net income and total equity capital. As a result of the amended reports, the industry's fourth quarter net loss widened from $26.2 billion to $32.1 billion. Net income for all of 2008 was revised from $16.1 billion to $10.2 billion.
The decline in the industry's total equity capital in the fourth quarter increased from $3.7 billion to $10.1 billion, but the additional goodwill write-downs had no effect on the industry's regulatory capital, because goodwill is not included in regulatory capital.

reply to post by xoxo stacie


Perhaps this is what Reinhardt is pointing out, already twice:

www.fdic.gov...

Media Release
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


NCUA Conserves U.S. Central and Western Corporate Credit Unions

March 20, 2009, Alexandria, Va. -- The National Credit Union Administration Board today placed U.S. Central Federal Credit Union, Lenexa, Kansas, and Western Corporate (WesCorp) Federal Credit Union, San Dimas, California, into conservatorship to stabilize the corporate credit union system and resolve balance sheet issues. These actions are the latest NCUA efforts to assist the corporate credit union network under the Corporate Stabilization Plan.

The two corporate credit unions were placed into conservatorship to protect retail credit union deposits and the interest of the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF), as well as to remove any impediments to the Agency’s ability to take appropriate mitigating actions that may be necessary. Service continues uninterrupted at both U.S. Central Corporate Federal Credit Union and WesCorp, and members are free to make deposits and access funds.

The Federal Credit Union Act authorizes the NCUA Board to appoint itself conservator when necessary to conserve the assets of a federally insured credit union, preserve member assets and protect the NCUSIF.

Corporate credit unions do not serve consumers. They are chartered to provide products and services to the credit union system. These products and services will continue uninterrupted and there is no direct impact by NCUA’s actions on the 90 million credit union members nationwide. Credit unions that serve consumers remain very strong, with net worth exceeding 10 percent of assets, healthy growth in assets, membership, and loan portfolios despite the difficult economy.

U.S. Central has approximately $34 billion in assets and 26 retail corporate credit union members. WesCorp has $23 billion in assets and approximately 1,100 retail credit union members. The member accounts of both credit unions are guaranteed under provisions of the previously announced NCUA Share Guarantee Program, through December 31, 2010. The Program extends NCUSIF coverage to all funds held by the two corporate credit unions.

Following initial actions taken by the NCUA Board January 28, 2009 (see NCUA Letter to Credit Union No. 09-CU-02 www.ncua.gov...), NCUA staff completed a detailed analysis and stress test of the mortgage and asset backed securities held by all corporate credit unions, including US Central and WesCorp. Specifically, this review determined that an unacceptably high concentration of risk resided only in the two conserved corporate credit unions. Securities held by US Central and WesCorp deteriorated further since late January 2009, contributing to diminished liquidity and payment system capacities, as well as further loss of confidence by member credit unions and other stakeholders.

Additional mortgage and asset backed security analysis and assessment of the two credit unions by NCUA staff enabled NCUA to refine NCUSIF’s required reserve for potential loss. The findings indicated an overall estimated reserve level, previously announced by NCUA, had increased from $4.7 to $5.9 billion. The specific computation and the impact of the refined reserve level are addressed in NCUA Letter No: 09-CU-06, which NCUA issued and posted online today at www.ncua.gov...

NCUA is hosting a webcast Monday, March 23 at 2 p.m. to provide the credit union community with an update on the corporate credit union stabilization program.

The central short-term objective of NCUA’s Corporate Stabilization Program has been to increase liquidity in corporate credit unions. Since the NCUA Board first began taking stabilization actions, liquidity has demonstrated marked improvement. The reliance on external borrowing has declined from $11.8 billion to $2.1 billion.

NCUA believes that the actions to conserve the two corporates, in tandem with established plans to enhance liquidity and generally stabilize the corporate network, represent the most cost effective and prudent alternative available to the credit union industry. The final stage in the overall stabilization program involves the Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking initiated by the NCUA Board in January. The credit union industry is expected to provide suggestions on possible future regulatory reforms to the corporate credit union network.

NCUA will continue to take any and all steps necessary to preserve a well-functioning system of corporate credit unions and to protect the assets of natural person credit unions and their members during the ongoing broader financial market dislocation.

The National Credit Union Administration is the independent federal agency that regulates, charters and supervises federal credit unions. NCUA, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, also operates and manages the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund (NCUSIF), insuring the deposits of over 89million account holders in all federal credit unions and the majority of state-chartered credit unions.

Sorry fer the delay...was checking past pages to make sure this wasn't a dup...

So far this year from Jan. 16, 2009 till today Mar. 20, 2009 the FDIC has closed 20 banks. All of last years (2008) total closures totaled 25!


The running list for this year:

TeamBank, National Association, Paola, KS March 20, 2009 March 20, 2009
Colorado National Bank, Colorado Springs, CO March 20, 2009 March 20, 2009
FirstCity Bank, Stockbridge, GA March 20, 2009 March 20, 2009
Freedom Bank of Georgia, Commerce, GA March 6, 2009 March 11, 2009
Security Savings Bank, Henderson, NV February 27, 2009 March 11, 2009
Heritage Community Bank, Glenwood, IL February 27, 2009 March 11, 2009
Silver Falls Bank, Silverton, OR February 20, 2009 March 10, 2009
Pinnacle Bank of Oregon, Beaverton, OR February 13, 2009 March 10, 2009
Corn Belt Bank and Trust Company, Pittsfield, IL February 13, 2009 March 10, 2009
Riverside Bank of the Gulf Coast, Cape Coral, FL February 13, 2009 March 10, 2009
Sherman County Bank, Loup City, NE February 13, 2009 March 10, 2009
County Bank, Merced, CA February 6, 2009 March 10, 2009
Alliance Bank, Culver City, CA February 6, 2009 March 10, 2009
FirstBank Financial Services, McDonough, GA February 6, 2009 March 10, 2009
Ocala National Bank, Ocala, FL January 30, 2009 March 10, 2009
Suburban Federal Savings Bank, Crofton, MD January 30, 2009 March 10, 2009
MagnetBank, Salt Lake City, UT January 30, 2009 March 10, 2009
1st Centennial Bank, Redlands, CA January 23, 2009 March 10, 2009
Bank of Clark County, Vancouver, WA January 16, 2009 March 10, 2009
National Bank of Commerce, Berkeley, IL January 16, 2009 March 10, 2009

reply to post by redhatty

Debit cards and credit cards have replaced most people's use of cash. the "money" exists as 1's and 0's on a ledger in a computer - not as cash on hand.

What is the difference between a paper coupon and an electronic digit? Neither has any intrinsic value. They are both based on trust and creating them out of thin air undermines that trust and that currency.

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

But, Hyperinflation is not in our future - yet.

until there is a mechanism in place to put paper dollars into the hands of the people, whether through wages or .gov handouts - HYPERinflation will not occur.

Would traditional (pre-Clinton) welfare do the trick? I ask, because that mechanism may already be in place, if the rampant rumors throughout the blogosphere have any merit.

I haven't actually read those 1,000 or so pages of the stimulus bill, so I can't say if this has any validity or not, but if anybody can confirm or refute these rumors, please let me know!

PS: I leave for four hours and you guys fill up three pages!?! After the closing bell, on a Friday?!?! If I had the time, I'd give everybody a star!

**Edited to post another link about the return of welfare..





[edit on 20-3-2009 by theWCH]

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by redhatty

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but the only thing that resembles hyperinflation nowdays is what happened to people includedand victimized in Ponzi schemes

Well, no one does Ponzi schemes like the US gov't. You know, like the Social Security account stuffed full of IOU's and that sort of thing.

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
My point being that the money that is being created will go somewhere. It actually can go to the unemployed through gov't progams known as 'unemployment benefits', 'food stamps', 'welfare', 'MCR', etc, etc. Is it really that hard to fathom that money will find its way into the system once created?

There are 583 Billion dollars circulating abroad (70 percent), and 250 Billion dollars circulating domestically (30 percent). Since the bank reserve balances held with Federal Reserve Banks were 12 billion, that gives us a 262 Billion domestic monetary base as of September 2008. This is the TOTAL printed money.

Look at the money that is in the bailouts - this is NOT printed money. It is 1's and 0's on computers. Since the fed is in the process of loading up on toxic securities trying to restore health to the financial sector, it is now sitting billions of unrealized losses. Those 1's and 0's will go there.

If I give you a trillion physical dollars, and you stick it under the mattress, the net result is zero concerning money in circulation.

If Bernanke "creates" a trillion "virtual" dollars and uses them to buy toxic assets that are going to be held indefinitely, the net result is zero concerning money in circulation.

Until a mechanism goes into effect to get physical cash into the hand of the people, no matter what you want to believe, you cannot get hyperinflation.

Even UE, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc CANNOT create hyperinflation - they are NOT Physical dollars. All of that is done via the debit card mechanism these days - and - even if everyone got $1000 in food stamps it only increases the debt level of the .gov.

Can a mechanism be created - of course it can - but until it is - there will be NO hyperinflation.

In fact, even though it appears that prices are a little higher for food, we are in a deflationary period. Employers are cutting back wages to workers, most retail stores are cutting prices just to get rid of stock. Businesses are closing, and jobs are being lost faster than new ones are being created. Home values are decreasing. All of this is DEFLATIONARY.

We will get to a point where we have "sticky prices" prices and wages can "stick" at a higher level than the market clearing price or wage. When this happens, people buy less and employers hire less, thus causing cut backs in production and employment. - what we are beginning to see now - but, eventually, the price of goods and labor will go down as well in the long run.

This is where the deflationary spiral kicks in.

Honestly - if you are convinced that hyperinflation is coming soon - then by all means - get off the computer and take every dollar you have and buy physical goods - canned food, toilet paper, feminine hygiene products, toothpaste, shoes, ammo - whatever - while you can so you are all set when you need a wheelbarrow of physical cash (that doesn't exist yet) to get a loaf of bread instead of that nice little plastic card in your wallet

You'll have yourself all set to be considered wealthy because you have goods

Hey I found some PDF files that might help those of us who don't understand how the FDIC banking closures work or what they deem needs to be closed etc..

media.abovetopsecret.com...

media.abovetopsecret.com...

After reading so many incredible great threads on the economic situation and different scenarios, I want to post this link provided to me by another member for those that wants to know how the domino effect that is causing our economic collapse started, who is to blame and for how long it has been until the culmination up to day.

Please is lengthy but worth it.

The Big Takeover
The global economic crisis isn't about money - it's about power. How Wall Street insiders are using the bailout to stage a revolution

Is from the Rollingstones and some language could be explicit for those that are "sensitive".

www.rollingstone.com...

[edit on 20-3-2009 by marg6043]

Here's a follow-up letter posted concerning the Credit Union actions today...

www.ncua.gov...

Hello, I'm Michael Fryzel Chairman of the National Credit Union Administration.

Over the last several months, NCUA has implemented a series of actions and programs designed to help ease the liquidity and capital strains within corporate credit unions; and to promote the overall stability of the cooperative credit union system. The purpose of this message is to inform you of additional measures the NCUA Board has implemented to further this important cause.

On March 19, 2009, the NCUA Board voted unanimously to place US Central Federal Credit Union and Western Corporate Federal Credit Union into conservatorship and assume operations of both entities. Losses embedded in the securities portfolios of these institutions have significantly eroded their value, to a point that requires us to assume control. This unprecedented action was necessary to protect not only the assets of the two corporate credit unions, but also to protect the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund and the interests of credit union members nationwide - members who rely on the payment systems provided by these two entities.

Only by direct intervention in the daily operations of US Central and WesCorp can NCUA implement timely, appropriate, and effective strategies to stabilize these corporates and restore member and lender confidence. Our objective in taking this action is in line with all of NCUA's recent efforts directed at the corporate network, to instill member and public confidence in the corporate system, restore the flow of liquidity throughout the system, and maintain uninterrupted transaction settlement.

NCUA has an experienced team of professionals overseeing operations of both US Central and WesCorp. The situation that led us to this point didn't happen overnight, and it will not be resolved immediately - it will take time. The NCUA Board commits to you that this job will be done right, and in a way that leaves the entire credit union industry stronger as we move forward. NCUA has already received over 100 comment letters on the corporate restructuring and will be carefully evaluating your suggestions for improving the corporate system.

Whatever final changes are made to that system, you can be assured they will be made with your input and with the goal that the system will be more insulated against concentration risk and future economic instability. I want to encourage credit unions to continue doing what you do best; meet the savings and lending needs of your members. During these difficult times for consumers, when many other financial institutions have been contracting lending, I'm proud to say credit unions have actually increased lending to members. You have my commitment, to continue evaluating any and all avenues, for minimizing the impact to natural person credit unions.

I want to remind you, both these corporates elected to participate in the guarantee share program through December 2010, so your funds, eligible for the share guarantee, are 100 percent safe and sound.

On Monday, March 23rd, NCUA staff will be hosting a webinar to provide additional details of the conservatorships, and to answer any questions you may have. Please check our website for registration information.

You have built a strong and vibrant credit union industry, one that continues to have tremendous value for America's consumers. In times of difficulty, it is always important to rely on your basic principles of; commitment to your members, prudent and sound operations, and a recognition that, working cooperatively, there is nothing we cannot accomplish.

Thank you for your time.

[edit on 3/20/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by redhatty

If Bernanke "creates" a trillion "virtual" dollars and uses them to buy toxic assets that are going to be held indefinitely, the net result is zero concerning money in circulation.

Fraid not, that money is deposited into a banking institution, be it the fed or all the big banks that own the fed (which are one and the same). Do you really believe that they just let money sit there? Not what banks are designed for my friend. They will invest it in whatever is going to give them a return, that's why we are starting to see the commodities rise again. They have intrinsic value and the 'deflation' has caused a drop in production, which means there will be a supply demand problem at some point. The banks know this and are going long oil, gold, etc. It's really only the vast majority who have been brain washed in the deflation myth that don't see what their doing. Nothing new under the sun, the Bankers are playing you.

I really wish we didn't have to go to the 'get off your computer and do thus and such'. The preps I needed to do were done along time ago and that statement just seemed a bit condescending.



[edit on 20-3-2009 by HimWhoHathAnEar]

Originally posted by HimWhoHathAnEar
Fraid not, that money is deposited into a banking institution, be it the fed or all the big banks that own the fed (which are one and the same).

No they are not. A central reserve bank is very different from a depository institution. But if I shouldn't have to explain this difference to you - the information is readily available from the web or books or an economics class.

Do you really believe that they just let money sit there. Not what banks are designed for my friend. They will invest it in whatever is going to give them a return, that's why we are starting to see the commodities rise again.

The FED which had purchased toxic assets is going to do exactly that - just let them sit there. They cannot price them and they will not sell them at a price of ZERO.

There are MANY reasons for the rise in commodities prices, including but not limited to a decreased supply. In the case of Oil, you are seeing higher prices at the pump for Options bought MONTHS ago at a higher price - you will again see lower prices if the greed factor doesn't go into high gear.

They have intrinsic value and the 'deflation' has caused a drop in production, which means there will be a supply demand problem at some point.

The supply problems are already here and will get worse - this causes higher prices to the consumer - which you seem to want to consider inflation, when it is really just a supply/demand issue reflected in higher prices.

The banks know this and are going long oil, gold, etc.

And you have proof of this? Where? Can you access the list of equities held by individual banks or is this just you opinion/theory of what they are doing?

It's really only the vast majority who have been brain washed in the deflation myth that don't see what their doing. Nothing new under the sun, the Bankers are playing you.

Deflation is not a myth, but I do agree that we have been and continue to be played by the banks

I really wish we didn't have to go to the 'get off your computer and do thus and such'. The preps I needed to do were done along time ago and that statement just seemed a bit condecending.

And it may be condescending - that happens when you take the time to explain something to a person and they ignore or discount what you are trying to help them understand.

Kudos to you for being stocked up - I continue to build my stocks and will for as long as I can - I don't believe there is ever too much preparation for bad times ahead.

Then again, there are others reading the thread who may think like you appear to - and believe that hyperinflation is around the corner (rather than the greater depression or the complete collapse of the US) and THEY need to be reminded that now is the time to stock up if that is the future you (individually and collectively) envision.