They say... (an interesting conspiracy in religion)

They say God is good since it is so said in the bible. The thing about it is, God is not best nor better in any thing or in any one. If it wasnt so, then you'd be in a heavenly paradise being heavenly paradise already, correct? Yeah, you see my point out clear. If it wasn't so, then the bible would have said God is best or God is better. But! It did not!

You think evil is opposite good? Well, let me ask you what is opposite best and opposite better? No dictionary with antoynms will say "evil" is opposite them. It is something to be said in it.

Now answer me this, since God is not best nor better, are you and I best and better than God? And can you and I be or become best and better than good God Almighty? "No man is good, save God" can imply any man is best or better than God, correct?

You've been assuming that since God is the only good that it means anyone else is evil by default. That is your problem! The truth is that if you buy that God is good then you should also buy that you are best or better rather than only surely evil. Why lower yourself lower than good instead of keep or raise yourself higher than good?

There is no commandment that says for you to be evil inorder to not be good as God or think yourself better than God. Don't confuse the word holy with good either. Holy only means sacred. It has nothing to do with good, evil, best, or better.

In a conspiracy those religions are leading you into recieving the mark called evil. You are willing going along with accepting that since you are not good, that you must be evil. In the conflict that is stating that you do evil things only, and you do not do good things nor any thing best nor any thing better. Well, if that is the case, then why were you, say, hired at a job before? Or why were you told you did better this second time around on, say, your ACT test?

Basically, religion got your minds thinking you and everyone not God is all evil. That is B.S! Sure certain do evil things, but also certain do best and better things over both evil and good.

Since it wasnt said no animinal was good, you can relax and say, "Good boy!" to your pet.

And by the way, better is better than best since better is in a state of always going beyond and exceeding. Best is at a stand still, as if nothing can go further more um better. As for me, I consider I'm the better than anyone or anything evil or good or best. What do you consider yourself if you think you can not say you are good as if good has been patented by God?

So what do you have to say? Will you admit religion is B.S.ing ppl's standings? Any 2 cent you want to share?


P.S. it would be funny if God you belive in let you be the judge of yourself, and so dumped you in hell because you so went with being convinced you are surely and only evil just to kiss up and dow lower than good God Almighty. Are you still willing to never accept being and doing above both evil and good? If evil is only what a devil can be...and good is only what God can be...then what the hell are you, mere man, doing not being best or better? That's like claiming your God is evil for making you lower than good. If you think not that God wants you to rise above Him, then you are not getting the message in the whole overcome thing mentioned in Revelation. The overcomers recieve what? What did Jesus message relaying say? You cant be just a comer (good as God) or even an undercomer (evil as the devil) either. Or else it's into the second death mentioned you go.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mabus]

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mabus]

reply to post by Mabus


that first paragrah seems a little gobeldeygookey maybe its just me

god said he was the king of kings, the god of gods, the god who all other gods kneel before

he destroyed the tower of babylon becasue people tried to be as good and powerful as god

jesus was the king of the jews (although he several times he said he wasnt good only god him/her/its self was good and or holy)

i dont believe in christianity but your arguments flawed from the start

and now youve made an atheist stand up for religeon .. you should burn in hell but there isnt one so maybe rethink the argument and try again?

also good/evil are man made ideas and have no true worth except that we give them

as shakespear (i think it was) said nothing is good or evil lest man make it so

[edit on 16/10/08 by noobfun]

reply to post by Mabus


Well, I must say I love topics dealing with Religion.

This is an interesting point of view, and should be noted. Though, if you're an atheist, your point doesn't really get across. (Me being Atheist kind of pointed that out to me).

Though I do agree and think that religion constantly forces people to lower themselves. It's demeaning to human beings and quite insulting actually. This is why I think that religion has been holding us back as a race.

The only inclination you have to hold onto a religion like Christianity, is fear. Fear of going to hell. Who wants to burn for an eternity? Just accept Jesus and you'll be alright.

I've made this point to many people and they say, "Well, once you accept Jesus you don't look at it like that". Well of course not, now that you've got the fiery pits of hell off of your mind. There's no other reason to accept this man as your "SAVE-yor", than to "SAVE" you... You're in fear, so you must be "SAVED"... Fear, fear, and more fear.



Another point I'd like to make, if God is so perfect, he wouldn't leave the fate of humanity inches away from some moron.

"Oh! Here's a delicious apple but you can't have it! Oh but I'm going over here, where I can't see you talking to your girlfriend about it and I can't stop you from doing that, because I'm perfect and omnipotent and I definitely wouldn't leave the fate of human-kind dangling in front of you. Nawww, I'm God! "

"Oh and I let some evil snake into my garden of immense purity and perfectness!"


[edit on 16-10-2008 by panda319]

Originally posted by noobfun
jesus was the king of the jews (although he several times he said he wasnt good only god him/her/its self was good and or holy)

But you fail to state, whether or not, Jesus is implying himself best or better or evil rather than good the God he states is.

Get back up on it.

Originally posted by noobfun
reply to post by Mabus

 

also good/evil are man made ideas and have no true worth except that we give them

[edit on 16/10/08 by noobfun]

You can pin this on anything. We've created the language, which is what we explain things with. So saying any ideology or point of view is man-made is kind of redundant.

You forgot bestest, and bestest to the infinite times infinity plus 1. Really though, how would anything be best or better than God? With regards to the story of Adam and Eve and the snake, you aren't even trying to understand it. You're playing around with the shell but you don't understand the inner part.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

How would anything be best or better than the flying spaghetti monster? :O

reply to post by ghaleon12



It's simple...

By being best or better than good.

Why dont you point out where in the bible it says God is best or God is better? You cant. I only seen God implied as good out of the whole category of the four (good, best, better, and evil).

Based on Revelation I've overcome simply by being better than being God and better than bowing down to God. I mean, every parent usually wants their child to be better than they are, do they not? At least I get the inner point better than any religious mind set can.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mabus]

Originally posted by ghaleon12
You forgot bestest, and bestest to the infinite times infinity plus 1. Really though, how would anything be best or better than God? With regards to the story of Adam and Eve and the snake, you aren't even trying to understand it. You're playing around with the shell but you don't understand the inner part.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

I understand it completely? You're not understanding my mockery of it. If God were omnipotent, he wouldn't have allowed such a thing to happen. It wouldn't make sense for him to do that, and if he is around all the time and see's all, he would've stopped the talking snake from tempting them? The stories of the Bible, and the stories of Religion, are complete tools for manipulation and it's obvious if you step back for one second and look at it.

Originally posted by Mabus

Originally posted by noobfun
jesus was the king of the jews (although he several times he said he wasnt good only god him/her/its self was good and or holy)

But you fail to state, whether or not, Jesus is implying himself best or better or evil rather than good the God he states is.

Get back up on it.

jesus is a hodge podge compilation of a spirtual and a physical jesus

he is one thing but says another not even christians have really got a good answer for this contradiction, really it doesnt works besides believe him and it will be clear later thinking

but you can assume he is better then us but not as good as god as he is between the 2

but god most deffinatley puts him self above everyone and everything, at least in the old jewish bit christianity hijacked

he makes himself the pinacle of all that is good so his opposite is the pinacle of all that evil so the devil .. even though somehow the devil bieng his equal and direct opposite is weaker then him ...

You've been assuming that since God is the only good that it means anyone else is evil by default.

its called original sin we are ALL born evil tainted with sin so only by following the jesus/god can we begin to become good and hence enter the funshine party land of heaven, so yes we are in essence born evil(by religeous standards) but that wont/cant mean we are better or equal to god becasue we are born with sin and he is free from it and its our design and purpose to follow the jesus/god to become more like them

your best better does nothing to discredit this as god is both the pinacle of good (the by the best at possibly bieng good) and is also the only thing that is truely holy so there for is the holliest of everything too


now will you stop making me stick up for religeon here its making me feel all dirty and unclean

Another point to add, sorry Mabus, I was agreeing with you until now.

Lucifer was cast into hell because he tried to be better than God. So, God did kind of make it clear who was best and better. There are a ton of other things you can easily use as contradictions to the bible though. I mean, it kind of produces its own hypocritical contradictions that you can just use. You don't even have to have originality, the bible fights itself.

Originally posted by noobfun

its called original sin we are ALL born evil tainted with sin so only by following the jesus/god can we begin to become good and hence enter the funshine party land of heaven, so yes we are in essence born evil(by religeous standards) but that wont/cant mean we are better or equal to god becasue we are born with sin and he is free from it and its our design and purpose to follow the jesus/god to become more like them

^^You're fogetting something... If Jesus said no man is good and also said his words shall not pass away, then man can not EVER be good. That leaves every man to never recieve any reward or heaven or paradise if it implies we are all only evil rather than best or better.

What is there to overcome that Jesus mentioned in Revelation then if we are only evil since Jesus said his words shall not pass away?

It only makes biblical sense if we are being evil, best, or better, but just not good, since only God is good. Cant knock best or better since Jesus didnt knock them with the famous line "but my words shall not pass away".

The only way I understand the overcoming thing mentioned in Rev is if we can be best or better than both good and evil. It only makes sense if "best" and "better" Jesus did not knock away from any man being. I dont see Jesus knocking them away anywhere in the bible either.

reply to post by panda319


the easy reply to that is god made the snake the apple and blah balh becasue it was his plan

he may have got mad about it but it was still his plan(hey he likes a bit of amature dramatics)

just becasue its based on fuzzy thinking doesnt mean fuzzy logic will out do it anywhere but in your own mind

not an insult i just think you need to havea rethink

as for good best better evil etc your picking those categories

if your the ultimate good there cant be a best better besterist or bestifided its top of the line already the only way is down

your thinking of the jesus/god as good not the ultimate pinacle of all that is good which is wher god decides to place himself

if you think of it like a pyramid he is the very very tip of the point at the top theres nothing higher/better/faster/freakier then he is



[edit on 16/10/08 by noobfun]

Originally posted by panda319
Another point to add, sorry Mabus, I was agreeing with you until now.

Lucifer was cast into hell because he tried to be better than God. So, God did kind of make it clear who was best and better. There are a ton of other things you can easily use as contradictions to the bible though. I mean, it kind of produces its own hypocritical contradictions that you can just use. You don't even have to have originality, the bible fights itself.

Wait a sec. Satan is not stated anywhere in the bible as being cast into hell or the lake of fire. Remember Satan gave power to the beast, and the beast had something happen with it and the false prophet concerning the lake of fire. But understand it's a name thing concerning the book of life? You see the devil cast into the lake of fire in Rev 20, but that devil did not have the name Satan. Satan's name obviously is written in the book of life. So Satan was not cast into the lake of fire. But I can see how many religious ppl and former religious ppl may not see such being the case.

So obviously Lucifer, by defying God, was given what? A new name? Jesus gives what to who overcome? A new name! It is so written in Revelation. Plus, Lucifer (the become new named Satan) did overcome God by not kissing His butt and not bowing down to God.

So Satan is better than God.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mabus]

hmmm. God is good, there is only one god. The devil is evil. But the devil was a rebellious angel that god created. But, only man has free will. So how does an angel rebel if it has no free will.

The devil is trying to undermine and thwart God's plan, but there is only one god. This "war" uses the human species as it's chess pieces, and therefore, both the devil and God can influence humans. God allows this to happen, but... God is good.

2 supernatural beings battling each other over rulership using Humans as the chess pieces...

That equals 2 gods to me. One good, one bad.

well since that's the case, I have no problems with being better. I am not subjecting another species to my influence and authority to settle a battle with my fellow humans.

Game over

Originally posted by Mabus

Wait a sec. Satan is not stated anywhere in the bible as being cast into hell or the lake of fire.

So Satan is better than God.

Rev 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
From the international version ^

Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
From the King Jame's Version ^


Satan and Lucifer are commonly looked at as the same, and those two passages kind of tie them together.

II Corinthians 11:14
"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."

The fact that Satan was an angel could be argued. Considering the word masquerade means: 3. false outward show; façade; (taken from Dictionary.com)


[edit on 16-10-2008 by panda319]

Originally posted by Mabus
Plus, Lucifer (the become new named Satan) did overcome God by not kissing His butt and not bowing down to God.

So Satan is better than God.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mabus]

fuzzy logic again

he didnt overcome god he just didnt do what he said

doesnt mean he was better

/Iran refuses to do what america says with its nuclear program does that make Iran better then America? no just different

Some of you shock me with the weirdness of your questions on religion, sorry to say. Why would the Bible have to say God was better or best? In comparison to what would he be better than? What in the world are you talking about the category of four? There are about 100 different words that are synonyms for "good", is the bible suppose to list them all? No one can be better than God, but some might say you can be equal.

It is said where I come from, not to put up an obstacle in front of a blind person, I guess I'll refrain from doing that, but some of you are setting up your own obstacles for you to trip over. You're stuck in one interpretation of things, and instead of expanding your own thoughts on what is written, you are fixated on the confusions you have made for yourselves. As long as you do that, it won't matter what people say to you.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by panda319


That only implies cast out into the earth. It doesnt imply cast out into hell. And it doesnt imply Satan wont get the new heaven and new earth mentioned also in Revelation, since, after all, the Dragon was no longer found "in" heaven.

And it still remains Lucifer was given a new name which implicates the whole "he who overcome" thing Jesus was implying in Revelation. True, Lucifer wasnt an angel anymore once become earthly.

So, the now earthly Satan can be already written in the book of life for overcoming, and can enter into paradise.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by Mabus]

I'm beginning to loose track of the main point, and to be honest I don't know why I'm arguing. The Bible shouldn't be argued for literal meanings, being it a work of fiction.