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GM: Better off bankrupt

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posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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That's scary . . .

Remember the old GM commercial . . . Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet . . .

Imagine what that would do collectively to the psyche of the US, to have an icon of everything that is good, starred and striped to go financially belly up.

The ramifications are unspeakable . . .


The list of unsuccessful auto mergers stretches from the present day - Daimler (DAI) and Chrysler, BMW and Rover - all the way back to Studebaker-Packard and Nash-Hudson



The rest of the story




posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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GM going bankrupt would be devestating to the US economy.

If GM actually made a good product they wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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GM would be better to go BK and I thought they would have done this sooner. Actually all of the big auto makers will do it. How else will they get out of paying all those legacy costs? I read somewhere not to long ago that the auto makers no matter how well they did could not turn a profit. That seems like it would not be possible but just think about how many workers they have had retire, and now they are collecting pension and medical at some point you just can't do it, so BK and wipe them out. Electric utilities did this in early 2000-01 PG&E moved all money into a different corp and went BK on the other effectively wiping out the dividend and the retirement accounts. At the same time they were giving bonuses to the CEO. We have very short memories (6 months) and we soon forget how dastardly big business is. If you have any notion that they care about any person that is a worker bee, your wrong, they care about $$$$ and major share holders.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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GM would be better to go BK and I thought they would have done this sooner. Actually all of the big auto makers will do it. How else will they get out of paying all those legacy costs? I read somewhere not to long ago that the auto makers no matter how well they did could not turn a profit. That seems like it would not be possible but just think about how many workers they have had retire, and now they are collecting pension and medical at some point you just can't do it, so BK and wipe them out. Electric utilities did this in early 2000-01 PG&E moved all money into a different corp and went BK on the other effectively wiping out the dividend and the retirement accounts. At the same time they were giving bonuses to the CEO. We have very short memories (6 months) and we soon forget how dastardly big business is. If you have any notion that they care about any person that is a worker bee, your wrong, they care about $$$$ and major share holders.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 10:51 AM
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GM, Ford and Chrysler lost their way.

The problem with detroit's big 3, was that they focused more on big and inefficient vehicles and when oil prices soared, their bottom line sank hard and fast.

GM at least tried to keep itself relevant by offering fuel efficient vehicles, Ford and Chrysler are slow to react. Ford's only hybrid is a compact SUV.

GM's volt is the right idea, but at $40,000 (not including dealer mark-up) is the wrong delivery. i know that costs must be recovered and what not, but at $40,000, you have shunned the working class at being able to go "green" and save on fuel costs as well.

if GM offered the volt at $30,000, the argument could be made that you will not be refueling as often.

GM has some very interesting vehicles on the horizon, including 3 concept vehicles, one of them a diesel offering.

if any auto manufacturer is going to set the path for america's automotive future, it has to be GM. Ford has become tired and uninspired. chrsyler is the brand no one will admit to driving.

if the U.S. automakers took a page from Toyota, Honda and Hyundai by just offering a stable of vehicles and just stuck to that, they would be in better shape.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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It serves them right.


GM has been pushing out a crappy sub-par product for the last decade or more. The same with Ford (Found On Road Dead). They mass produce poorly disgned and poorly constructed pieces of over priced crap. I know, I sold them.


Honda and Toyota have been making better quality vehicles for so long now it has grown to be common knowledge just how superior these products are, easily seen by the resale values which are higher and hold much steadier.

I cant remember the last year that Ford didnt have some sort of massive recall on at least one of their main line vehicles. Japanese and Euro vehicles handle better, they usually get better fuel mileage and they last twice as long. Honda and Toyota engines can make it to 200K mi without even trying hard. Most American made engines begin to fall to pieces by 100K.

I agree it would be damaging to our economy to see them fold, and I hate the idea of Americans losing jobs. But these companies have been pawning off junk on loyal American buyers for years now and they are now reaping what they have sewn.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 10:56 AM
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GM for decades refused to make muscle cars with hp & racing performance

then they ripped off the retirements that were promised career workers,
they went into the finance business w/GM finance

campaign contributions, union contempt..........



good riddance



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Pensions are a very large part of GM's problem.

www.nytimes.com...



G.M. acknowledged in its most recent annual report that from 1993 to 2007 it spent $103 billion “to fund legacy pensions and retiree health care — an average of about $7 billion a year — a dramatic competitive and cash-flow disadvantage.” During those 15 years, G.M. paid only $13 billion or so in shareholder dividends. The company has been sending far more money to its retirees than to its owners.

After falling $20 billion behind on its pension earlier this decade, G.M. doggedly put money into its plan to catch up. It has also agreed to invest more than $30 billion in a fund to cover future health-care expenses. But these efforts have starved its business.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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Something I haven't seen anyone talk about (largely because in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter that much, I suppose) is what will happen to NASCAR if GM, Ford, and Chrysler do bankrupt. I'm an old Dale Earnhardt fan, got #3 decals & stickers all over a number of things, shirts, hats, etc. A large part of that fandom was also the pride of buying my first Chevy truck in high school. It wasn't a Monte Carlo, but it had the same symbol on the front grill that Dale drove around the track sporting and that was somehow and for some reason pretty cool to me back then. I can't imagine NASCAR with a bunch of rice burners and was frankly offended Toyota was allowed in last year. But, amazingly, if GM goes belly up it's almost a certainty we won't see any Chevys being driven around the track thanks to there being no manufacturer's team support from them.

(Hell, that makes me wonder if we've seen the end of NASCAR getting manufacturer support across the board. Can the auto industry justify massive layoffs and downsizing while still pumping millions into auto racing and still look America in the eye?)



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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You would think they would simply consolidate all their products into GMC. No more Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, Saab, & Saturn (Don't think I missed any) and focus on making a high quality product.

I never understood why car manufacturers don't take their most popular models and make modern remakes of them.

Part of the problem is our GOV had made it very difficult and expensive for companies to do business in the USA.

Another issue is corporate greed. Greed will getcha every time.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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I was looking for a new car about amonth ago and went to GM and Dodge, I despise ford...long story, I tested out a few cars and was not impressed at all. I have owned a S-10 and a Pontiac Sunfire and was looking for something worth working my fingers to the bone to pay for. After having a entire day wasted at a GM dealer, whom spend the entire day trying to "get me a good deal" by canceling my GAP protection and any warranty I had on my trade in and trying to pluck any bit of cash I had off me, I decided to go down the road to the VW dealer the next day. I arrived at the VW dealer, told them I wanted to look at a Jetta, was in a Jetta and test driving it within two minutes, returned to the dealer and filled out the paper work and drove home my new jetta within 1 hour and 15 minutes of arriving at the dealer. They didnt even ask for any cash down. My Jetta blew every american car in the same price range out of the F-ing water. So many luxuries and safety features are standard on it that would costs thousands more on any american car. It is truely sad that the US auto industry cant produce a nice car for a decent price. I personally will be a VW driver for the rest of my life.

The US auto makers will have to do some amazing work to get my business back. I was so looking foward to the new Challenger, but priced at 35k-50k+ they totally missed the best target consumer, people like me.

Overpriced cars, gas guzzling vehicles, and no plan to change. I remember a few years ago Ford asked for 18 billion from the government so they wouldnt go under. Then Ford said they couldnt make gas efficient cars because it would cost to much for them to do so. Dont you think it would be possible to start a entirely new car company from scratch with 18 billion dollars and these morons cant change a factory production facility.

People in the auto industry would do extremely well in getting trained in something else and moving out of Michigan ASAP.


[edit on 15-10-2008 by emptee]



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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Amen. Blackops & burdman you guys hit the nail on the head.

I grew up with my parents driving a '78 Ford station wagon. In 1987 they purchased a Jetta but in 1993 (with the emergence of Saturn) decided to give American cars another shot. They purchased another Saturn in 2002, but have considered buying a Toyota for their next car/SUV. I can't blame them..

I have owned a '93 and '95 Acura Integra, I can tell you those cars have much more precise shifting/steering than a '00 Saturn Redline. Speaking of Saturn what are their models now? The Astra? The Aura? In 1993 they were called the SC and SL. In 1993 Honda called their models the Civic and the Accord. The car and the name withstood the test of time... enough said.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by GoalPoster
 


Good!! It's time they failed. Let somebody like the Germans or Japanese take over, they seem to make better and more reliable cars.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 04:26 PM
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The big 3 just doesn't make a quality product, and they leaned on the gas guzzlers for too long. Bad bad management.

You take a company like Toyota which started designing hybrid vehicles a long time ago with the Prius. Turns out they were way ahead of the curve.



posted on Oct, 15 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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If GM went bankrupt, what would happen to those who worked for them for 35 years and are now receiving a pension?



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