Bodies strapped to seats on AA77, Pentagon?

reply to post by tezzajw


Sorry, but a friend of mine who was there, is not hearsay to me. Especially when the man is still dealing with the nightmares over it.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Swampy,

Your friends story will not fit into their fantasy. No need to share it with them.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


Please explain, Yogurt. Do you believe swampy's story? If so, why? It seems to me that you have done nothing but prove what a hypocrite you really are. You demand nothing but the highest caliber proof from truthers but anybody that comes along and tells a tale you like, well heck, word is good enough, right?

I do believe you have also said that only truthers are so willing to believe what they hear as long as it suits them. So far you have been all over this thread praising and backing up stories that have no more evidence than any stories claiming the planes were freaking hollograms.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


Amazing how many times Yogurt whips out this ignore threat. I guess if I were an ignorant loud mouth with nothing useful to add that was being made to look stupid all the time, I would put those people on ignore too for pointing out how wrong I am being. Yes, nothing points to it. I discount your two eyewitness statements. Why not, you dismiss any and all eyewitness statements that say there was a missle, no plane, two planes, a different flight path, anything that contradicts what NIST and FOX told you happend that day. Have fun pretending to ignore people. You will learn alot by ignoring more and more people. Or perhaps it is because you remembered that I already proved you a liar in two other threads and now that you again accused me of the one thing you already tried but COULD NOT PROVE, you just need to hide out for a while

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Swampfox, I respect your friends and their statements....I do....From your screen name, can I infer you have been employed by the USG?

I can tell you, from my personal experience (anecdotally, of course) that someone employed by the USG can and will be forced to make statements that say whatever needs to be said to corroborate official USG positions. It is amazing how threats of IRS seizures, phantom deed transfers, etc can convince someone to corroborate.

More power to them, but, also, from the experience of someone that has done a/c accident investigations, the greater the shock of a witness, the more open they are to be affected by what they are told.

[edit on 18-10-2008 by habu71]

[edit on 18-10-2008 by habu71]

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


You want proof, solid indisputable proof of any claim a truther makes. So why is the word and ONLY the word of two people good enough for you over this body strapped into seats thing?

I just do not understand why believers can complain that nothing any truther says has proof and yet you will defend this hearsay for an entire thread?

If anyone saw bodies, then where is that paper work? Where is it in the reports? Why has it failed to be documented so far?

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Sorry, but a friend of mine who was there, is not hearsay to me. Especially when the man is still dealing with the nightmares over it.

I hope that your friend finds some way to deal with what he experienced. It must be tough, moving bodies. It's not something that I would want to do.

I don't suppose that he happened to obtain any names or forensic ID for the bodies that were allegedly found strapped to airline seats, right?

reply to post by MorningStar8741


Whether or not you choose to accept the truth is beyond my control (or care actually) Morning Star. I have dealt with enough people on ATS to know that some would rather wallow in their goofy conspiracy theories no matter what they are shown.

My "story" as you call it, comes from a few friends of mine. One, spent three days at Bethesda recovering from his injuries that he suffered that day. Three others, were part of the recovery teams that spent days carrying the bodies of their coworkers and the passengers of Flight 77 out of the wreckage left behind. According to them, it was easy to tell a Pentagon worker from a Flight 77 passenger. The pentagon workers, 95% of them were intact bodies, some horribly burned, some not. Flight 77, very few were fully intact bodies and almost all were horribly burned.

reply to post by tezzajw


Forensic ID no, personnel effects yes.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Simple question for your friends......where did they carry the bodies and body parts? What were their positions and ranks?

Attention everyone

For the last several pages, there has not been any new information adding to this discussion. There is only finger pointing and calling each other liars and disinfo agents, ect.

If you have nothing to add to the topic of the discussion, then don't bother to post. If this continues, posts will be subject to penalties and removal.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


You know, I did not want to call you a liar outright. Unfortunately there is a common thread among liars. A story that was dismissed when it was one friend, is now three friends to give it more weight. I am still not calling you a liar, I am just saying, if we are so bent on looking at evidence and reality and all that...

Look, the point is, if I say my three friends were there and saw a UFO attack the pentagon. Well, now why are your 3 friends any more credible than mine. It is that simple you demand proof of any claim made by a truther. No matter how many videos they come up with or eyewitness testimonies, none of that counts because it contradicts the "OS." They are just what people are saying and have no proof so they should be dismissed. Well, then I guess until you have any proof of these bodies, talk about the 30 friends you have that were there. Eyewitness statements have already been dismissed as NOT PROOF by believers. Now the tables are turned and you really do not seem to like it. I see ignore buttons and stories that grow from post to post in response. I guess someone hit a nerve by asking for proof.

reply to post by Hal9000


I certainly hope that asking for proof of these bodies found strapped into seats counts as on topic. I also hope that calling out the posts that clearly obfuscate instead of respond to the question of proof of bodies found strapped into seats is also on topic.

[snip]

I have posted statements by 3 witness - 2 USAR search/rescue members and Sgt Williams from Ft Belvior

USAR team member

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."
–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept
www.rense.com...

FIREFIGHT - page 373-374

USAR team member Mike Regan also spotted bodies still in airline seats
in same location

Staff Sgt. Mark Williams of the Military District of Washington Engineer Company at Fort Belvoir also later says: “Ironically, we were conducting classes about rescue techniques when we were told of the planes hitting the World Trade Center.” Williams’ team is one of the first response groups to arrive at the site of the Pentagon crash and one of the first to enter the building following the attack.

[urlwww.historycommons.org...
[/url]

Mark Willams: "When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him. 'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.'

Story of finding intact airline seat (empty) in Pentgon debris

"Early Friday morning, shortly before 4 a.m., Carlton Burkhammer and another firefighter, Brian Moravitz, were combing through debris near the impact site. Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long. They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open."[2]

Suprised tin foilers have not complained that FT Belvior held Mass
Causalty exercise 2 months before...



Edited out personal attack and fixed quote tags

[edit on 18/10/08 by masqua]

[edit on 18/10/08 by masqua]

I agree.....questioning previous posts that obfuscate or asking for either an admission that it is personal experience or a link are relevant to the thread......

reply to post by Hal9000


its painfully obvious that there is no official documentation for bodies being found still strapped into their seats.. but that in itself does not make it false.. this is another irreconcilable debate.. (I have googled my butt off looking for documentation..)

the real questions should be why would this detail matter? what is the OP focusing on and why? realistically weather or not there were bodies still strapped to seats is irrelevant, when taken in the context of the bodies possibly being planted..

seems to me that a lot of "un-orthodox" investigating was done that day.. lots of standard operation procedures were thrown out.. however, I find this to be quite understandable.. considering that those on site, probably had no reason to treat this as an accident scene.. as we were informed that this was a terrorist attack..

as a side note one point was made, (and subsequently ignored)..
the hypothesis that a plane traveling 500mph or so stopping in 40 feet, would have different characteristics than that of a plane traveling 300 or so feet.. or simply put: a more gradual deceleration.. and anything and everything on the plane would experience the same g-forces.. bodies included..

and yes by all means please stop the back and forth name calling.. this has been getting ridiculous~pccat

reply to post by habu71


Asking for evidence or discussing experiences is not the problem. The problem is calling other members liars and disinfo agents or whatever.

In short, you can still discuss the topic, just do it without being disrespectful.

reply to post by MorningStar8741


I did the same much earlier in the thread, and all my posts were removed by the OP. That was my goal, not to be a thorn in anyone's thinking, but to first identify whom the OP was referring to as well as to establish the validity of the OP statement. From there, we could debate what it MEANS, or the variables potentially involved.

It's clear and scientific thinking. Make a statement, back it up with evidence, identify a hypothesis, and experiment/test those parameters.

Oh well.

No hard feelings on my part Tezza. Perhaps you feel you've been besiged by folks who have an agenda, and painted me with that same brush. I'll continue to follow this and other threads, but I won't put any more time into my offerings as I did a few nights ago.

cheers

[edit on 18-10-2008 by argentus]

Originally posted by pccat
reply to post by Hal9000

 

its painfully obvious that there is no official documentation for bodies being found still strapped into their seats.. but that in itself does not make it false.. this is another irreconcilable debate.. (I have googled my butt off looking for documentation..)

the real questions should be why would this detail matter? what is the OP focusing on and why? realistically weather or not there were bodies still strapped to seats is irrelevant, when taken in the context of the bodies possibly being planted..

seems to me that a lot of "un-orthodox" investigating was done that day.. lots of standard operation procedures were thrown out.. however, I find this to be quite understandable.. considering that those on site, probably had no reason to treat this as an accident scene.. as we were informed that this was a terrorist attack..

as a side note one point was made, (and subsequently ignored)..
the hypothesis that a plane traveling 500mph or so stopping in 40 feet, would have different characteristics than that of a plane traveling 300 or so feet.. or simply put: a more gradual deceleration.. and anything and everything on the plane would experience the same g-forces.. bodies included..

and yes by all means please stop the back and forth name calling.. this has been getting ridiculous~pccat

The detail matters because a body in a seat that can be verified by dna and the seat material positively linked to the aircraft and flight would go a long way to prove it was an aircraft.

If any "investigation" results were released that made the remotest amount of sense, they would be crucial. No evidence (meaning a collection of presentable and identifiable physical evidence) has yet been presented by any agency. The fact that it was assumed to be a terrorist attack should have intensified the level and scope of any forensic and aircraft accident investigation ( see TWA 800).

The inertia of an aircraft (non supersonic) turning and decending might be different than one in a dive, but, as far as the Pentagon, the USG claims the aircraft had descended and was almost in level flight at impact. The inertia difference between a 300 to 400 knot impact into a reinforced concrete wall and structure would not be even remotely more gradual, it would be almost the same, therefore, catastrophic to a human body. Bodies in seats would NOT have occurred!!!!

reply to post by argentus

argentus. No problems.

In the OP, I asked a couple of questions. It was bugging me that some people used 'bodies strapped to seats' in other threads and were getting away with it, unchallenged.

Believers of the official story are often the first to cry foul of any truther statement, demanding evidence.

Now, when the reverse situation is presented, we can see how some believers of the official story have scrambled and faltered to back up a claim that bodies were strapped to seats. A few admitting that they can't or won't do it.

If you take a look in a couple of other recent threads about the alleged Pentagon strike by the alleged AA77, you'll see where the 'bodies strapped to seats' claim was used as evidence, by some believers, to prove that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

Sorry if I seemed abrasive to you. It's just how I am. Anyway, I think this thread is running out of steam. It's probably proved its point by now.