I question my religion and faith. Please help =) Proof please not just words..

Originally posted by SimpleTruth

Originally posted by favouriteslave

Well if you take the bible to be truth then you still believe that bats are birds and the the earth is flat?

I guess I picked a bad day to be human

Oh please, the bible doesn't say the world is flat anywhere. I'd like you to point out exactly where it does. And don't tell me it's the verses talking about Jesus seeing the four corners of the world.

No it wasn't Jesus, it was John. Lets also remember that Gallileo was imprisoned for trying to say the earth was round and rotated around the sun. The church later had to apologize.

Revelations 7:1
AND after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth.

You didn't comment about the bat, I guess you know the bible does say its a bird then?

By the way, you never finished answering the questions on your other thread, I'm still waiting

Name Any "Inconsistency" Of The Bible, And I'll Explain How It's NOT Inconsistent

[Edited on 26-3-2004 by favouriteslave]

Originally posted by favouriteslave

You didn't comment about the bat, I guess you know the bible does say its a bird then?


[Edited on 26-3-2004 by favouriteslave]

What's this thing about the bat, I never heard of it?

What's this thing about the bat, I never heard of it?

Leviticus
11:13
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

11:14
And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

11:15
Every raven after his kind;

11:16
And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

11:17
And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

11:18
And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

(Lev.11:13)
11:19
And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Well, I did some research and soul searching and the best answers I came up with is I believe there was a creator, but I also believe what is flat in front of my eyes (the 14 billion year old universe and all that is in it).

The bible may have good teachings in it and God may have come down as Jesus, but god has given me no direct proof other than beliving in a convoluted bible that has been altered so much by men to suit their own needs that I may only experince god though my own soul which in effect makes me god of my life or at least a part of the over all creator.

I do find enough evidence that thier could be a higher inteligence that created the heavens and the earth as easily as you can belive in the big bang which may in fact be the same thing.

Finally the bigest thing I've discovered thast anyone who is following the "forged Holy Bible" without personal thought and personal soul searching is probably a blind fool following the words of men.

I am not saying however that reading and following parts of the bible might bring you closer spiritualy with the creator if in fact he is out there.

Faith = beliving in something without proof or undinable evidence.

If your religeon is only faith based then you must admit that you may be being lied to. Denial of fact and truth could not possibly be the design of an inteligent all powerful creator. In my book fact and truth is what you can see period.

Well Ill continue on my journy and my mind remains open =) and I am certainly open to listening to god if he would like to come say hello.

Amen?

Xeven

Good Grief! I just have one thing to say: Can any of you prove god exists without quoting the bible which is not proven to be true?

PS I do believe in a god thing, but at our current intellect/technology it is flat out arrogent to claim to know for sure.

Originally posted by Xeven

Finally the bigest thing I've discovered thast anyone who is following the "forged Holy Bible" without personal thought and personal soul searching is probably a blind fool following the words of men.

Faith = beliving in something without proof or undeniable evidence.

If your religeon is only faith based then you must admit that you may be being lied to. Denial of fact and truth could not possibly be the design of an inteligent all powerful creator. In my book fact and truth is what you can see period.

Well Ill continue on my journy and my mind remains open =) and I am certainly open to listening to god if he would like to come say hello.

Amen?

Xeven

First, let me say congratulations on your graduation into thinking for yourself! Coming from a fundamentalist background myself, I know how confusing it can be to doubt something that you once believed infallible.

I always hear people say, "If there's a God why doesn't It give me proof that It's there." or "I'll only believe that something exists if I can see, touch, hear, taste, or smell it." While I can understand the inability of some people to believe in what they cannot prove, I think it is a very narrow view of things.

My primary reason for believeing in an infinite God, albeit not the Bible version, is the fact that we are all just energy particles vibrating on different frequencies. So is everything else that we assume to be real and tangible, in our universe.

Everything, including people, when broken down to the smallest possible particle, is made up of the same components. That means the computer screen you are reading this on, is ultimately made of the same thing you are.
The incredible part of this is that every time physicists think they have found the most basic, fundamental particle that exists, a smaller component eventually gets discovered (currently "preons" are the smallest particles). It would appear that the cycle of smaller parts that contain still smaller parts, could be infinite.
Yet despite the fact that the physical world is anything but physical, we are self-aware and have a conscious mind. Quantum physics perfectly illustrates this:

Basically, what quantum theory says is that fundamental particles are empty of inherent existence and exist in an undefined state of potentialities. They have no inherent existence from their own side and do not become 'real' until a mind interacts with them and gives them meaning. Whenever and wherever there is no mind there is no meaning and no reality. home.btclick.com...

To me this is proof that there is an infinite consciousness performing the function of the Observer, and everything that exist is just a manifestation of It's observations.
This is the reason you cannot demand proof of God and it is also why you cannot "find" God by searching with a predetermined concept of what It will be. God is everywhere you look, and if you stop thinking about seeing proof of It's existance, you can't miss it. Western churches teach that meditation is evil and opens us up to demonic possession, but this is untrue. Probably the most important verse of the Bible, with regards to the search for God, says "Be still and know that I am God". In other words, stop thinking with your brain, shut up and let yourself feel the Truth. No one will ever find God by reading a book, even if God wrote it Itself. Once you realize that God IS the Bible, not inside it, everything else will start to make sense. I don't think anyone should read the Bible until after they have "found" God. Once you make that spiritual connection it is much easier to discern the lies from the Truth in all things, including the Bible. I recommend reading about as many ancient religions as you can. It is incredible how many similarities exist throughout the world. IMO Truth is Truth and nothing can change it.

Good luck on your quest! It's a neverending process, but worth the effort.

Originally posted by favouriteslave






What's this thing about the bat, I never heard of it?

Leviticus
11:13
And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls ; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

11:14
And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

11:15
Every raven after his kind;

11:16
And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

11:17
And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

11:18
And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

(Lev.11:13)
11:19
And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.


You're really digging down deep here. So a bat was named with other flying things that were not to be eaten. How does this disprove anything. The list of what not to eat was broken down as, things in the sea, things that fly, things with cloven hooves, ect. This text was directed to common people, not biology students.

There is no absolute proof...none at all. It is your beliefs and only that.

You need a real teacher teaching the truths of God and not all the crap we get in the churches today. I understand how you feel I've been there and thank God He directed me to Dr. Gene Scott. He's not afraid of the hard questions...and guess what! There are no contradictions in the bible (except James). His gestalt method of teaching gives you the whole picture, not just fragments like most preachers. Dr. Scott also teaches the Greek and Hebrew so you can get the depth of meaning in the scriptures, our english language is limited and alot of the meanings of our words have changed (ie let). He is now teaching from Romans...on his site you can listen and watch 24/7 or go into the archives and listen to anything you want...basic Christianity, History of the Church, how and why the Roman Church adopted pagan rituals and feast days (ie Christmas and Easter) and tacked them onto Christianity. He cuts through the crap and gets to Christianity as it was taught before it was corrupted....he always gives the sources so that you can check it out for yourself. www.drgenescott.com

Hi Im very sorry to here that you have doubts concerning your faith. This may be partly due to the fact that its been a part of your life for so long , but not your own choice. At this point all you have is your own experience to judge your faith by. Most atheist have there own experience to base their beliefs on as well. I just know that this is a bad position to be in. there is a lot of good imformation on this subject that can help you. You may want to start at CRI> You can find them at www.equip.org I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I have seen the evidence and am convinced