TimeLine as of 10/12/08

Originally posted by redhatty
Immediately after the "Fannie/Freddie Big Bang", ISDA began reporting that the swaps market was $54 trillion instead of the former $62 trillion--$8 trillion in positions evaporated--and offered NO explanation for this stunning drop.

2. Some percentage of the $650 trillion overall derivatives markets

Sub Total: Who knows?

$650 trillion in derivatives market!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is absolutely staggering figure. I wonder how this incredible figure looks like when translated in terms of goods and services. For example, how many houses you can buy with this kind of money. The median price is $300,000.

$650 trillion / $300,000 = 2.16 billion houses.

Now, the US population stands around 300 million . . .

That's strange, ain't it?

Yes, it is, because the value of the derivative market is 47 times higher than the Gross Domestic Product of the country. In other words, the $650 trillion figure is turbo-charged bunch of bull.

I don't know what the OP was smoking, but I'd love to take a hit of it. WOW!


Forum, this is not to say that you are barred from accepting the figure and other assorted material that the OP came up with as the truth in order to draw a sketch of upcoming economic depression 650 times worse than the Great One. No holds barred. Go ahead, make my day.



[edit on 10/12/2008 by stander]

reply to post by redhatty
I think that would be unlikely. That would mean the Elite Creditors would not stand to get repaid. Of course the little guys will be happy for debt erasure, but the agenda has not been to help the lowly indebted peasants. What Creditors at the top of the food chain are going to agree to wipe out debt burden?

I think you should all watch this:
video.google.com...

[edit on 12-10-2008 by FX44rice]

[edit on 12-10-2008 by FX44rice]

reply to post by Lebowski achiever


Ah! Gotcha!

I think I did cover that

10.On October 8th, the U.K. pumped the equivalent of 87 billion U.S. dollars into their failed banking system in a desperate attempt to revive their failed financial institutions. At least the U.K. was kind enough to their taxpayers to demand preferred stock which MIGHT one day pay some paltry dividend back to their Treasury--unlike the U.S. TARP plan, which will basically offer nothing to U.S. bag holding taxpayers.

Of course I used a figure in dollars reflective of the 50 billion pounds spent on priority shares.

Great work there man, very nicely summed up, will be using this for future reference regarding this crisis. Thanks.

Well I have read somewhere that noone really knows how big the Derivatives Bubble really is.

This article states that it is 8x the Worlds GDP. On the 5th September 2007. It was sure to be even bigger than that this year.

www.moneyweek.com...

reply to post by redhatty


500 Billion Pounds is not 87 Billion Dollars. It is closer to 900 Billion Dollars. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Originally posted by stander
$650 trillion in derivatives market!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is absolutely staggering figure. I wonder how this incredible figure looks like when translated in terms of goods and services. For example, how many houses you can buy with this kind of money. The median price is $300,000.

$650 trillion / $300,000 = 2.16 billion houses.

Now, the US population stands around 300 million . . .

That's strange, ain't it?

Yes, it is, because the value of the derivative market is 47 times higher than the Gross Domestic Product of the country. In other words, the $650 trillion figure is turbo-charged bunch of bull.

I don't know what the OP was smoking, but I'd love to take a hit of it. WOW!
[edit on 10/12/2008 by stander]

Staggering isn't it? And you know what? I was rounding it, it is in fact AT LEAST a total of $677 Trillion

Over-the-counter markets
$596 trillion by the end of 2007
source

Futures markets
$81 trillion by the end of March 2008
Source

In both cases the source is directly from the Bank of International Settlements. So if they are lying then so am I

I WISH it was cause I was smoking something.

Edit to add:

Also Stander, I am looking at a GLOBAL situation. Just because the US is only focused on itself does not mean that they are the only ones in the derivatives market Sorry, but as we are starting to become aware of, we yanks just ain't as important as we think we are

[edit on 10/12/08 by redhatty]

Originally posted by Lebowski achiever
reply to post by redhatty

 

500 Billion Pounds is not 87 Billion Dollars. It is closer to 900 Billion Dollars. Or am I misunderstanding you?

Only 50 billion pounds went to the purchase of priority shares, not 500 billion

there are only so many things that can be tracked and confirmed. until money is dispersed, it's hard to say how much went where. I am trying to keep track of things, but I am only 1 person with a job and a household to take care of too, so if I do miss things, I am happy to look into it.

maybe I should change that entry in the OP to reflect that a total of 500 billion pounds is available for injecting capital? What do you think?

I think a mention that 500 Billion is available would at least document it for future reference. It is also interesting to note that the amount made available is larger than the first proposed Bail Out Package. For such a small country. It makes me very suspicious, to say the least.

Great work by the way! I am printing your post out and make everyone read it!

reply to post by Lebowski achiever


Updated to read:

10.On October 8th, the U.K. allocated 500 billion pounds sterling to help in the economic crisis, it immediately pumped the equivalent of 87 billion U.S. dollars into their failed banking system in a desperate attempt to revive their failed financial institutions. At least the U.K. was kind enough to their taxpayers to demand preferred stock which MIGHT one day pay some paltry dividend back to their Treasury--unlike the U.S. TARP plan, which will basically offer nothing to U.S. bag holding taxpayers.

Better?

reply to post by redhatty


Yes thank you! Again, Great work! One of the more important threads in this forum!

reply to post by redhatty


Absolutely amazing posts and thread. Hats off, to the redhatty.

Thank you King.

I should have reserved a page for the rest of the world's efforts too

Australia announced that they will guarantee ALL bank deposits for the next 3 YEARS (do they really expect this to go on that long???)
Source

reply to post by stander


Oh and I should direct you to this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you think the derivatives are staggering, check out how the Federal Reserve is completely insolvent!

Originally posted by redhatty
Also Stander, I am looking at a GLOBAL situation. Just because the US is only focused on itself does not mean that they are the only ones in the derivatives market

Sorry, but as we are starting to become aware of, we yanks just ain't as important as we think we are

Just look at it anyway you want to. I'm not striving to pour a shot of common sense into your scheme by using a simple arithmetic and press my point post by post. Just read again my notice.

[edit on 10/12/2008 by stander]

Originally posted by redhatty

WARNING SPECULATION!

I can imagine a global situation where we "reset to zero"

How much of a fight will people put up if they are offered debt forgiveness along with a new currency system?

Most of the world will beg for it, it won't have to be shoved down any throats.

Very few people live truly debt free.

i stopped reading the rest of the posts when i read this.
brilliant theory and potential "real-world" perspective!

it will also be interesting to see how the further illegal immigration growth pans out in the economic bigger picture, but your theory is very plausible.

Let´s however not remember the real reason for the meltdown...

Nationalisation of all major banks is the final step towards a One World Bank, which ofcourse is one of the main goals set by the NWO.

One World Army
One World Bank
One World Order

MoonMine


I have a question here. Call me naive, but speaking about a world army, world bank, and world order. Other than controling everybody, good luck, are the ufo's out there Klingons instead of vulcans.

Excellent thread. Thanks for the lengthy summation of the situation.

I have a couple questions since it appears that some financially knowledgeable folks are contributing to this discussion.

The first pertains to my personal situation...

My wife and I live in an apartment, so we have no mortgage to worry about. This week we'll be paying off the last of our debt, so I'll be able to start saving up some cash (it's feeling more like the term "credits" is appropriate these days when talking about currency since it's all virtual) again now that we're in the clear. So, no loans, no credit cards...no debt. I have never put money into 401K because I never felt comfortable with that system, and now I'm sort of glad I went that route. My question is this: Given my financial status, am I in a good or bad position for riding out this economic storm? Any why would that be?

The other question I have is regarding nationalization. What exactly does that mean other than that the government would ownership of assets, industry, etc.? I'd rather not have the government meddling in more than they already do, but are there any benefits to nationalizing crippled sectors and corporations? And is nationalization usually permanent, or can it be beneficial as a temporary implementation?

Thanks in advance if anyone take the time to answer those. Again, wonderful and informative thread. I had no idea just how many credits were being magically created and thrown around to try and band aid the global economy. It's very astounding.

Originally posted by redhatty
reply to post by stander

 

If you think the derivatives are staggering, check out how the Federal Reserve is completely insolvent!

Heheh, and someone in my thread told me the dollar isn't going to collapse...hahaha

I agree with your thought on "bank runs." I'm one of those types that pays everything by debit "check" card... there have been times that I don't have a single dollar in the house (the paperboy just loved being paid in quarters a few times.) Over the past 2 weeks, I withdrew more cash from the ATM to "stockpile" for an emergency than I have in my entire adult life.

reply to post by anachryon