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reply posted on 12-10-2008 @ 11:35 PM by redhatty
Originally posted by John_Q_Llama
Excellent thread. Thanks for the lengthy summation of the situation.

Given my financial status, am I in a good or bad position for riding out this economic storm? Any why would that be?

The other question I have is regarding nationalization. What exactly does that mean other than that the government would ownership of assets, industry, etc.?


Thanks

Here's the Wiki on Nationalizatoin That will explain some of what it means, look though the different countries to see what has been nationalized and how that has worked out for them in the long run.

As for the financial storm...

I am not an "expert" by any means, keeping track of current events does not require anything more than time and effort, but I see a short period (how short? your guess is as good as mine) of deflation, where things actually get less expensive. Use this time to your advantage. Stock up on non-perishables, rice, legumes, sugar, etc. And other necessary items like toilet paper and other hygiene products.

If for some reason TPTB manage to solve this crisis, well, you have supplies for a while, if not, then when the credit freeze affects your local store's ability to restock it's shelves, you are prepared.

If you choose to invest in precious metals (gold, silver) make sure you purchase the actual metal and not the paper form. Certificates may be worthless if things really fall apart.

Discipline yourself to learn how to live with less. For now, only purchase what you need, not things you want. It is not time to capitalize on dropping prices for 22 in monitors or 72 in flat screen TVs.

If you have a vehicle, stay on the half tank rule (fill up at half a tank of gas not empty) or keep a back up supply of fuel (don't forget stabilizer if you are storing it for over 30 days). Also, make sure the vehicle is in good repair, if not, get that tune up, repairs or new set of tires you need while we are in the deflationary period.

If anyone else out there has more to add, please do



reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 02:52 AM by malcr
Originally posted by Shar_Chi
Reset to zero means people with mortgages get to keep their homes? Car loans? Lines of credit? Man, that would be the sweetest result imaginable! I'd walk off into the forest, whistling

Dream on not a hope in hell. It doesn't work like that. The one thing that will remain is the money we owe to banks. The money we have invested in savings, pensions etc that can disappear.....into the pockets of the few people who will still be rich.

The sad thing about all this is is that the system does need saving otherwise we really will lose our savings and pensions and the rich will still be rich. Despite all the anger around and calls for the instigators to be hung drawn and quartered. They will get away with it. We have two choices:

1. Let the system collapse, we all lose everything, we still have to pay our debts and the suits that caused this remain rich.
2. Rescue the system, we keep our savings and pensions, we still have to pay our debts and the suits that caused this remain rich.

Number 2 is a nightmare for governments due to the unrest and turnmoil with millions thrown into poverty. Number 1 is business as usual.

It's a simple as that! The interesting thing about sabing the banks is the method employed. Are there any governements brave enough to nationalise ther banks, give the tax payers the benefits and curb the suits excessive profit sharing? So far it looks like the UK is a partial yes, the US is scared sh.tless about the implications (socialism via the back door etc etc), Germany is likely to follow the UK lead.

There are those on the left (although not me despite being a lefty) who want to see collapse because of their hatred for suits that caused this but they really need to take a broader look at the world. The banks are the devil that we need unfortunately. There is no viable alternative at present. Remember no matter what alternate system is introduced to control the flow of money there is no infrastucture in place to do it. That infrastucture is with the existing banking system. It would take years to replace it. Hopefully it will happen but letting the current system collapse is NOT the solution.


reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 03:54 AM by DataWraith
Originally posted by FX44rice
reply to post by redhatty
I think that would be unlikely. That would mean the Elite Creditors would not stand to get repaid. Of course the little guys will be happy for debt erasure, but the agenda has not been to help the lowly indebted peasants. What Creditors at the top of the food chain are going to agree to wipe out debt burden?

I think you should all watch this:
video.google.com...

[edit on 12-10-2008 by FX44rice]

[edit on 12-10-2008 by FX44rice]


After reading this thread, and it is very interesting, and it goes with what I've been saying to the family, that the world is in for a rocky ride.
I have warned the family to buy lots of rice and pasta (dried foods that will last) and bottled water, Now it may seem a bit extreme, but here's a little background about myself.
I work for the Bank of England ( nothing too fancy just a clerk) but I'm not all that financially savvy , same as the rest of the avergae staff here. We all have loans, cars , mortgages ,credit cards, and for people to say it's ok is a load of BS, the world's markets are in freefall with no parachute.
We had another company going into adminisration this morning, (won't say which but its not all that important) it seems to be the norm this month, theres a company going belly up every day now.
As for talk of a 'one world currency, I can't see (while its a good idea for us little people to have all our debts 'cancelled') how it would come into effect. and besides do you really think that the people that you all owe money to are going to just say " yeah , sure, forget the debt you owe us"? of course they wont, they'll just adjust it to the new currency and you'll be stuck anyway.
Besides all the super elitists who want the 'one world currency' aren't too worried about electronic money ( it doesn't exist ) or the paper one, if it all is worthless you know that they are going to be buying as much precious metals are they can before the money really is worthless. So my advice to you all is " Buy as much gold and silver as you can ". no point with Palladium or Platinum as both of those look like silver and 99.999999% of the worlds people don't carry devices to tell the different metals apart, if it looks like silver , its silver, but gold is universally known and coveted. SO buy it and that way when the NWO want to buy it in builk they'll be unpleasently surprised when they can't get any... then we'll own the NWO ..
Whilst I would Love to put one over the NWO , I can't help but feel that a one currency would be some much more beneficial to us all, there'd be no more worrying at the airport , have you got enough foreign money?
But if they were to 'reset' the economy to zero, all those people with savings, My question is would they lose it all? whilst those with debts (myself included) would have those debts forgotten? I'd find it hard to accept that the world would allow this situation, it is too engrossed in the fight of trying to get one over someones elses currency, there's too much bickering going on to just let the OWC slip into effect.
Besides what fun would I have of buying all the stuff I can in the States coz its a third to half the price it is over here in the UK. I wouldn't be surprised if they started the OWC already with the Amero. What a dull name.. all future currency should be called 'credits' anyway like in all the sci-fi films and books

[edit on 13/10/08 by DataWraith]



reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 06:54 AM by redhatty
Well folks, TPTB have decided rather than actually fix things or make a new system that will truly work, they will instead, use the hyperinflationary measure of endless fiat

Federal Reserve Announces Endless Fiat

"The BoE, ECB, and SNB will conduct tenders of U.S. dollar funding at 7-day, 28-day, and 84-day maturities at fixed interest rates for full allotment. Funds will be provided at a fixed interest rate, set in advance of each operation.

Counterparties in these operations will be able to borrow any amount they wish against the appropriate collateral in each jurisdiction.

Accordingly, sizes of the reciprocal currency arrangements (swap lines) between the Federal Reserve and the BoE, the ECB, and the SNB will be increased to accommodate whatever quantity of U.S. dollar funding is demanded.

The Bank of Japan will be considering the introduction of similar measures."


So instead of just taking your savings and pensions, they have decided to pump the global system with so much fiat money that anything you think you have will still be worthless.

The US dollar which is only equal to 4 cents of the 1929 dollar is going to be worth a negative number in no time. At least in terms of buying power.

But you will still see your little credits recorded in your pensions and savings account, just be sure not to look behind the curtain, you really don't want to see the monster hiding behind it


reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 07:13 AM by Tytanius
reply to post by redhatty


So what does all of this mean in real terms?

(1) If I have a pension I can kiss it goodbye
(2) If I have savings I can kiss those goodbye
(3) Debt is good so long as my bank goes under
(4) Debt is bad if my bank survives

Whilst some of these points are clearly facetious in nature, they still represent some of the questions that a lot of people seem to be asking at the moment. Principally, if people have investments, are they safe? Something which I suspect will vary depending upon where investments have been made, i.e. property, gold etc... may remain relatively stable whilst investments in oil or financial products may result in widescale losses.

In addition, people are asking about their debt position. What happens to existing personal debt if banks dissolve? Will they be better or worse off?

I don't pretend to have extensive financial information available to me and was wondering what the opinion of forum members may be on these questions?

Any ideas?

Many Regards,

Tytanius.


reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 07:28 AM by redhatty
Originally posted by Tytanius
Principally, if people have investments, are they safe? Something which I suspect will vary depending upon where investments have been made, i.e. property, gold etc... may remain relatively stable whilst investments in oil or financial products may result in widescale losses.


Depends on what happens. Sorry, but my magic eight ball is replying unclear ask again later

For the short term, while your pensions may rise and fall, they will still be there. The problem is, that when it comes time for you to withdraw them, we will most likely be in full blown hyperinflationary stage, so your purchasing power will be less.

the property bubble is on a dying life support system. Property values are dropping, but your mortgage isn't changing to reflect the loss in equity.

Gold is doing some strange things, so you may still be good with that, but if you have gold on the exchange, all you have is a piece of paper, not the actual metal in hand. That could disappear.

If your bank goes under, it will either be absorbed by a larger bank or nationalized, either way, whatever debts you have to it will still have to be paid.

And even with all these stick save measures, there is no guarantee that this will open up the credit market again. We will have to sit back and wait to see if banks will start lending to each other again and how the markets ultimately react to endless fiat.

I expect a rally today, but what you won't realize is that the rally will just be the opportunity for many people to get out of the market completely and hopefully with a little money in their pocket. How long will the rally last? Again, depends on if credit lines open up.


reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 09:20 AM by MOFreemason
reply to post by Tytanius


I did not see your response as I was posting my question...thank you for shedding some light in this area.


reply posted on 13-10-2008 @ 11:06 AM by RetinoidReceptor
Originally posted by John_Q_Llama
My wife and I live in an apartment, so we have no mortgage to worry about. This week we'll be paying off the last of our debt, so I'll be able to start saving up some cash (it's feeling more like the term "credits" is appropriate these days when talking about currency since it's all virtual) again now that we're in the clear. So, no loans, no credit cards...no debt. I have never put money into 401K because I never felt comfortable with that system, and now I'm sort of glad I went that route. My question is this: Given my financial status, am I in a good or bad position for riding out this economic storm? Any why would that be?


You are in a bad situation no matter what, especially during an economic storm. You said you have no savings and no investments and no retirement fund. That is a bad status no matter what. What happens if you get laid off? Unless you are in a highly stable job such as a doctor, nurse, accountant, etc. Or what happens if you or your wife gets sick? You may be paying off your debt, but you still don't have a good financial status. Especially if there is a deep recession.

The other question I have is regarding nationalization. What exactly does that mean other than that the government would ownership of assets, industry, etc.? I'd rather not have the government meddling in more than they already do, but are there any benefits to nationalizing crippled sectors and corporations? And is nationalization usually permanent, or can it be beneficial as a temporary implementation?


Nationalization is usually permanent if you are in a country that is following communism or socialism. In the U.S. and Europe it will not be permanent. They will probably eventually begin selling off assets when it is a good time to do so.
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