Sharia courts set to bring Muslim law to bear in Scottish cities

SECRET talks are under way to bring Islamic sharia law courts to Scotland, The Scotsman has learned.

Qamar Bhatti, director of the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal (MAT), which runs the courts, admitted discussions were taking place with lawyers and Muslim community groups in Scotland.

The group is believed to be aiming to set up courts in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

In September it emerged that five sharia courts, ruling on civil cases from divorce to domestic violence and financial disputes, had been operating for more than a year in London, Birmingham, Bradford, Manchester and at MAT headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire.

news.scotsman.com...


Why is this medeival,sexist,bigotted mindset called Shariah law even being considered?
What is wrong with the already existing law of the land?
Why do certain muslims feel the need for special treatment-is it because some are indoctrinated,brainwashed and conditioned from birth with the delusion they are somehow superior to other human beings?
I think this the first step on a very slippery slide -Shariah law justifies domestic abuse cases being overseen by unobjective,untrained people with religious agendas and legitmates the concept that muslims are somehow different (and deserving of special privileges) than everybody else.
uk.youtube.com...
Its already been documented in television programmes such as Undecover Mosque that the 'Nazification of islam' is a stark reality
-should we realy be encouraging this extremist mindset by allowing all muslims their own special law?


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

This stuff boggles my mind. I think if it happened in the US I'd be on the streets with hand granades. How can you have two seperate set of laws? One religious, one not? So, what if you're getting a divorce and are Muslim, but would prefer a civil court, not a Sharia? And say your partner doesn't? What then? Can you sue in both? And what if Sharia law contradicts the real laws?

dude, look into the subject matter before flaming someone elses beleif system. Islam is a very accepting religion, its the misinterpretations that make it out to be the all evil empire of islam. sharia law just effects muslims and not the general populus. plus they only deal with domestic and personal issues, they do not override the British law courts. plus it saves the tax payer money through domestic affairs that take place in public court, sharia courts are privatly funded. There is no threat to the british public. We are already a multi national nation. Next you will be saying you want to get rid of the jewish private courts the Beth Din to, or did you not realise that they existed. there is no difference between them and the sharia courts.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by AmbroseRokewood]

Actually, all courts that are not secular and uphold the constitutional version of full equality must be stricken from all countries and this is a very slippery slope. In Canada, the outcry was enormous, and the protest included Muslims that had escaped this abuse of human freedoms and equality. It was dropped! Other religious courts should be kicked ASAP as well.

edit to add: the constitution protects every single citizen regardless of ethnic origin, race, religion, sex, etc etc, and this is abuse of constitutional rights.

[edit on 12-10-2008 by mystiq]

reply to post by Jadette


if that happens the person who wants to use the civil courts has the full backing of the legal system and therfore over rules the sharia court, they are an american citizen.

Its not going to happen regardless of this paper talk. You cannot have justice if people live by different sets of rules. Im all for a multicultural society but the first rule of immigration for me is you adapt your own lifestyle to your new surroundings not the other way around, and the uk regardless of race is still a largely Christian country ( probably an atheist country in reality ). We'll undoubtedly be getting plenty of new laws restricting freedoms and for collecting fines but thats about it and they will apply to everybody.

Karl,

Thank you so much for raising this again. I've posted several times on various threads about how I think this is not a good idea. The Scottish legal system is admired for it's integrity and high standards by many other people, and to introduce any other kind of law to run along side it is an absolute nonsense. We DON'T need it. and we especially don't need set of religious laws, of any religion, from any section of society. the laws of the land are much more than adequate, and I would be saying this about Jewish Law or Pagan Law, before any one accuses me of anti Muslim sentiment.

There is plenty of evidence in the documentaries you mentioned to indicate that this could indeed be "the thin end of the wedge", and I simply cannot see how one country can be effectively and fairly governed by two sets of laws, regardless of whether they are criminal or civil in nature. Will the MAT organisation then seek to have Sharia used for criminal cases when the civil procedures are established? This should not be an issue for the Muslim people to decide on their own, but for all Scots.

Futhermore, how can domestic violence be considered a civil matter? It's a criminal matter, whoever is involved. If a Muslim man chooses to assault his wife or children, (which is usually how it goes, although not all the time, I will admit) there are PREFECTLY ADEQUATE authorities and policing in place to make sure it's dealt with already.

Jadettes point about contradiction is an important one too...what would happen? Are there any lawyers here familiar with Scots law enough to hazard a guess?

Cait

reply to post by AmbroseRokewood


My objections aren't about it being Islam. But as R-evolve says, you cannot have justice if people live by seperate sets of rules. I am uncomfortable with the idea of a religious court, of /any/ religion, having some legal support. And if the Beth din has this, then they shouldn't. If this is an informal, social thing, but with no legal bite, then they're free to do whatever they want. But the moment it has some legal weight, it's gone too far.

from what i have read and believe, sharia courts are not for criminal matters, they are simply for solving civil matters.

this will not change the way scotland legal system is ran, it will just help the minority get a fair hearing that plays with their ethical values, which is fair enough.

if they were making the scottish legal system into a sharia law system, then i woudl get worried, but everyone should have teh right to a fair hearing, and the usual legal system is based on christian values and beliefs , swearing on the bible ect, its not very nice or fair to force a muslim to swear on the bible when they have a different religious viewpoint.

Thank you for raising this subject.

We are just waiting for the time bomb to explode here in the old world. Too many Muslims have come to Europe over the years for the mere reason to enjoy the benefits of Western wealth while refusing to integrate and adopt to Western society.

Of course there are always people who do, but too many don't. Those who don't are trying to create Muslim states within our European lands.

Whether you like it or not, sooner or later the Muslims will be hunted down like animals like the Jews once were by Nazi-Germany. The difference, though, that Jews were falsely accused for the existing problems while Muslims are all the time causing problems.

Either accept the Western system and live your lovely Muslim live behind close doors, or buy a one-way ticket to Alibaba land to never come back.

Flag this thread



[edit on 12-10-2008 by Mdv2]

Hey! Me and a bunch of my friends from west of the Mason Dixon want to move to Scotland ,we will live by the CODE OF THE WEST! Hope that's okay with you course if it isn't the The Code of the West says we hang you, but hey that's just the way we do it!

There was a call for it to be UK wide, but that was generally ignored. If they don't like the law, they should try to shift it democratically, not ask for a seperate system. Are they British or not? If not, they should realise that they are guests, or should go.

thats a bit of an erm ...anti people thing to say.. (i dont know the word i need sorry)

they are guests in the uk as much as people from the uk are guests of the uk!!

we never built it, we just somehow manage to get their and populate, just like anyone else.,

i always thought nationality is a bit of a dumb concept, were all from the same planet, may be some different colors or looks, but underneath we are all pink and fleshy, ans we shoudl have the right to go where ever the hell we want on this planet, or anywhere beyond for that matter,

reply to post by boaby_phet

not the topic under discussion boaby_phet
going to an established country and then making up your own laws is like going to someones house a taking a crap on their floor in the middle of dinner, but I see by your avatar you probably don't see what's wrong with that either

reply to post by boaby_phet


Disagree. I suppose we are all guests of the earth anyway. Point is, if you can't handle one system legally, work through the systems to change it, or morally abstain on the issue, be a guest. At the end of the day, this is not anti-peoply, but they don't afford Western (Christian) courts to us, so the whole thing is a hypocritical heap of cobblers.

you know what do do then...

dont vote labour.

its not the muslims that let them set up courts in the uk, its the government!

lay the blame where blame is due, dont hate the muslims for it.

i feel bad for them lately in the uk, they get so much bad press when they havent really done anything wrong themselfs.

if it doesnt hurt anyone, then why worry is my main thought.,

(and your just jelouce of my funky avy aint ya , but no, i dont crap on floors, it was just a good logo!)

[edit on 12-10-2008 by boaby_phet]

reply to post by boaby_phet


Don't hate Muslims and don't hate guests and am not going to vote Labour in the General election.

didnt the people who are against this not know that other religions in the UK have their own courts to deal with domestic and personal issues. Take the Jews for example they have Beth Din, for dealing with civil matters. I dont see you having any arguments against that, or are you to lazy to properly look into the subject matter first before you go off ranting against the Muslim population first. Plus these courts are funded privatly so will benefit the tax payer to.

reply to post by AmbroseRokewood


Your comments about shariah law just affecting muslims and not the general populace is strange-I thought muslims were part of the general populace.
Once you start having special rules for one group of people then any claim of equality is utterly hypocritical and contradictory-you cannot have it both ways.
As for the complaint that 'jewish people do it so it is OK for muslims' ,I don't think any religious sect/cult,be it abrahamic or scientologist,should be afforded preferential treatment by anyone.
All these overtly religious folk intent on forcefully imposing their own 'opinions of law' here in the UK should be aware that they have no more claim of 'special rights' than the next man.
They are no better ,nor worse than anybody else and should just be happy to abide by the existing law of the land-not contravene it by setting up their own judical system based on unimpartial,unobjective religious agenda.

I'd also be interested in your opinions on this documentary called Undercover Mosque and what's been called the 'Nazification of islam'.
uk.youtube.com...
I did post a link to the video but have noticed that you've failed to address it in any of your three replies.
Do you think this and other documentaries like it are 'anti-religious alarmist nonsense' or do you feel they paint quite an honest portrayal of life in Britain today?



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

it doesnt effect you at all. the courts only deal with civil issues, and the sharia courts can be overturned by the county and criminal courts.

the reason i didnt comment on ur you tube video is because it is irrelevent. The documentary was made from an outsiders perspective of a closed society. Plus, unless you work directly for the editing crew at channel four you can not make a rash decision without all the facts. We are targeted by so much scare mongering through the media, you can no longer rely on it as an honest documentary.