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reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 03:34 PM by saint4God

Originally posted by larphillips
... is the sudden rise in strength of the dollar coupled with a dramatic decrease in the price of oil.

Well, this is what Wall Street was chanting we needed in order to make gains prior to "The Great Drop". They got their wish...but doesn't seem to be doing what they said it would. Does this mean there will be a recovery as part of the tradeoff? Or was The Street puffing smoke trying to explain why we were hovering at 14,000? I get the impression there have been scales put into place that if Joe loses, Jane wins and vice-versa. Maybe not, but given how long the market has been around and seeing how tied they are to the rest of the world's economies, it's hard to believe we managed to 'sell this idea' without some kind of assurances.

Interesting tidbit:

But all hope for a bull stampede is not lost. Ironically, if things take a turn for the worse early Tuesday, it might be a bullish sign.

”(If we come in tomorrow) and find out about some bad news out of Europe or Asia and get a very heavy round of selling going into 11:30am with high volume the market could turn like a cattle stampede,” Cashin says.

www.cnbc.com...

[edit on 6-10-2008 by saint4God]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 03:45 PM by son of PC

reply to post by saint4God

"if you get a chance to check out Jim Kramer, the man understands. He can't predict the future, but he knows what can happen and why."

I think Kramer's on screen persona is a little bit off. For instance, when the stock marker tanks he should have something he can apply to make him sweat real bad. Then he would take his jacket off and be covered in flop sweat. Kinda like he was having a heart attack or something.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 03:57 PM by saint4God

Originally posted by son of PC
I think Kramer's on screen persona is a little bit off. For instance, when the stock marker tanks he should have something he can apply to make him sweat real bad. Then he would take his jacket off and be covered in flop sweat. Kinda like he was having a heart attack or something.

It did look like that on his show last Friday

. I agree the show has too much drama with the swinging, rocking camera with 50 angles, the animal sounds and basketball coach-like antics, but can appreciate a little bit of excitement being brought to an otherwise bland topic. Looking past that, he knows a lot about companies, financial drivers, and can provide legit reasoning to what otherwise looks like an irrational nebula of market volatility.

[edit on 6-10-2008 by saint4God]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:15 PM by whiteraven

reply to post by alphabetaone

You hit the nail on the head. After we see the dismall Chrismas sales and dismall day after thanksgiving sales the vast, the worlds largest, retail market....the North American retail market will fall.

This is truly daunting.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:34 PM by Zepherian

Did not read thread, so my apologies if my post is repetitive.

I just watched a local portuguese news channel here, 22h GMT. SIC Notícias. Basically they gave a very strong hint at what is really going on here. They showed a brokering agency and everything is quiet and the report basically said "despite the heavy losses the day has been quiet, as most of the movement has been big investors dropping stocks". Further in the report another reporter said the investors were dropping the crashing markets to buy gold.

Here is my take on this whole mess: Big investment is dropping massive amounts of stocks to generate panic, hoping John Q Public gets in a mass panic and sells his investment. Once the price gets low enough they will use their massive economic leverage, and you don't get more massive than being part of the money issueing class, to basically buy back the economy for pennies on the pound, or cents on the euro and dollar or whatever. It's an old trick, they've done it before.

Here is where John Q Public can screw them over: I don't see much of a panic this time, outside brainless journalism drones. Seems the information age is doing it's thing, as people are networked and functioning at a higher informational frequency. What should happen if anyone is really awake, and I for one am planning on putting money where my mouth is, is there should be a massive buy up popular movement of good stocks comencing tomorrow or the day after. This will stop the seeded crash in it's tracks and get stocks at perhaps 30-50% discount. This will also massively hurt the NWO crowd as they lose some of their corporate leverage. Sure, not everyone can do this, but a very large portion of the middle class can. It won't change much of the status quo but it will send the elitists a very clear message: we see you.

I am focusing on telecoms, manufacturing and commerce companies, things that are more or less mainstreet and should survive all but the biggest crashes.

Look at it this way: if these bastards do successfully crash the system you're going to lose most of what you own anyway. This way we go down fighting.

This is my personal opinion, I am not liable for any losses, take it for what it's worth. But at least realise that this whole thing was a psyop.

Peace.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:40 PM by pai mei

It's a game. People must realize that money are not created by gods, or extracted from the ground with great hardship like gold. Money are created whenever "some" people want. Money are tools.
Why should people suffer because of "credit crisis" ? We did not run out of forests to cut, mines to mine and oil to extract yet

The phisical stuff is still here, but people suffer because of numbers on paper. That's the game

[edit on 6-10-2008 by pai mei]

[edit on 6-10-2008 by pai mei]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:46 PM by bruxfain

Originally posted by Zepherian
Did not read thread, so my apologies if my post is repetitive.

I just watched a local portuguese news channel here, 22h GMT. SIC Notícias. Basically they gave a very strong hint at what is really going on here. They showed a brokering agency and everything is quiet and the report basically said "despite the heavy losses the day has been quiet, as most of the movement has been big investors dropping stocks". Further in the report another reporter said the investors were dropping the crashing markets to buy gold.

Here is my take on this whole mess: Big investment is dropping massive amounts of stocks to generate panic, hoping John Q Public gets in a mass panic and sells his investment. Once the price gets low enough they will use their massive economic leverage, and you don't get more massive than being part of the money issueing class, to basically buy back the economy for pennies on the pound, or cents on the euro and dollar or whatever. It's an old trick, they've done it before.

Here is where John Q Public can screw them over: I don't see much of a panic this time, outside brainless journalism drones. Seems the information age is doing it's thing, as people are networked and functioning at a higher informational frequency. What should happen if anyone is really awake, and I for one am planning on putting money where my mouth is, is there should be a massive buy up popular movement of good stocks comencing tomorrow or the day after. This will stop the seeded crash in it's tracks and get stocks at perhaps 30-50% discount. This will also massively hurt the NWO crowd as they lose some of their corporate leverage. Sure, not everyone can do this, but a very large portion of the middle class can. It won't change much of the status quo but it will send the elitists a very clear message: we see you.

I am focusing on telecoms, manufacturing and commerce companies, things that are more or less mainstreet and should survive all but the biggest crashes.

Look at it this way: if these bastards do successfully crash the system you're going to lose most of what you own anyway. This way we go down fighting.

This is my personal opinion, I am not liable for any losses, take it for what it's worth. But at least realise that this whole thing was a psyop.

Peace.

That's funny. My take on it was the exact opposite. Instead of Big Investment running a con, they are already in a trap and John Q public will get back what belongs to him.

What's really going on is the Robber being Robbed.

And that's why they keep threatening Armageddon and WWIII and so on and so forth. Its because they are losing....EVERYTHING.

and will be left with NOTHING!!

[edit on 6-10-2008 by bruxfain]

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:49 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by bruxfain

That makes no sense when they are basically getting free money given to them... The only way they will lose everything is if people, however they can, take it from them.

I'm going to nibble a little bit.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:55 PM by bruxfain

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by bruxfain

That makes no sense when they are basically getting free money given to them... The only way they will lose everything is if people, however they can, take it from them.

I'm going to nibble a little bit.

And right on que someone responds that it is impossible that the Big Investment could be outsmarted by the public. We so dumb and they so smart.

Dude, I assure you they have lost more than you can possibly imagine. I don't expect you to believe it. Your job is to convince people to arm themselves and protest and panic. Or to destroy their government or so on. Your script is to communicate the idea of hopelessness. I've got your program.

All of your base are belong to us now!!

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 04:56 PM by larphillips

Originally posted by Zepherian
I am focusing on telecoms, manufacturing and commerce companies, things that are more or less mainstreet and should survive all but the biggest crashes.

While I wholeheartedly agreee with you that, if you can afford it, now is the time to buy, I'd stay away from telecom. I've worked in the telecom industry for quite a few years now, and times are very dark. The vast majority of their business now involves infrastructure investment and subscriber growth. One involves huge investments of capital and the other is buoyed by a stable and secure economy. We have a situation where credit for massive capital projects is hard to come by and any company with big cash reserves is holding on dearly to it. Of the tier 1 and tier 2 wireless carriers, only AT&T and T-Mobile are doing any sort of building... and even they have very recently scaled back their projects for '09. Just look at the 52 week spread at Sprint to see what can easily befall the other wireless companies. Personally, I'd stay far away from telecom investment (and I personally own shares in AT&T and Sprint). Right now, I like food stocks and entertainment companies. Remember, Hollywood's Golden Age came during the years of the Great Depression. Sometimes, the only escape that a poor, struggling family could find was a night at the movies and the only indulgence in their dark days was a Hershey bar. (I also own Time Warner, GE - NBC & Universal, Netflix, Disney, Hershey, Wrigley, and Heinz.)

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:02 PM by larphillips

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by bruxfain

That makes no sense when they are basically getting free money given to them... The only way they will lose everything is if people, however they can, take it from them.

I'm going to nibble a little bit.

And right on que someone responds that it is impossible that the Big Investment could be outsmarted by the public. We so dumb and they so smart.

Dude, I assure you they have lost more than you can possibly imagine. I don't expect you to believe it. Your job is to convince people to arm themselves and protest and panic. Or to destroy their government or so on. Your script is to communicate the idea of hopelessness. I've got your program.

All of your base are belong to us now!!

Depends on who you define as the 'they.' The average rank & file worker at these large financial companies? They most certainly lost a lot... their jobs, perhaps their careers in an over-saturate job market, their savings if they owned stock in their company. The average stockholder who had a large portion of their portfolios in financials? Without a doubt. In any pyramid scheme, the bottom of the pyramid... the foundations that keeps the top safe and secure... is the first to crumble and the worst hit. But we don't take any pleasure in seeing these people suffer because they most certainly weren't the cause of this catastrophy. No, the true culprits have all already gotten away scot free... with their rich golden parachutes, payout bonuses, and generous severence packages. They saw the writing on the wall a long time ago because they orchestrated this mess. They definitely planned for the inevitable and shielded their fortunes... even bolstered them... prior to the meltdown.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:02 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by bruxfain

Now you're just making stuff up, I said nothing of the sort, in fact it's 100% the opposite. Reread untill it sinks in.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:06 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by larphillips

Well, point taken.

I'm looking more at Internet service providers and stuff directly linked to the digital economy, not classic telecoms. There is still room for growth there. Besides, the point is not so much investment and growth, it's ownership. The idea is to reserve a slice of the pie, regardless how big it is, because we can't eat fiat money and we may have a financial crisis soon.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:07 PM by bruxfain

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by bruxfain

Now you're just making stuff up, I said nothing of the sort, in fact it's 100% the opposite. Reread untill it sinks in.

I read your one sentence and contemplated its implications. I stand by my response. And I said the people have already taken everything from them. they will be left with nothing. I suppose you don't know as much as you think you do about what people do in their own homes.

We've been in this land for nearly 500 years, I think I know more about how things work here than you.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:08 PM by Boognish

reply to post by saint4God

You mean this Jim Cramer?

YouTube Link

Nobody is right all the time I guess.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:13 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by bruxfain

The stock crash is global. And only the americans have been drained of credit, the middle class of europe and asia have massive financial leverage still. We have deposits and all that emigration sendhome money. Probably trillions of euros of deposits, of which a small percentage could be used to strengthen the middle class position in the corporate economy. Even in the US there will be a few million people with actual wealth, like the retired folks and some non alighned millionaires.

If the NWO sells, I say BUY BUY BUY, let them hold their own paper if the monetary system crashes, let non aligned people hold actual assets.

Remember, there are few of them, many of us. Those that can should, those that can't, we got your back.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:14 PM by porky1981

The worst thing you could do right now as an investor is listen to analysts on CNN... they want you to panic, they want you to worry and they want you to sell and sell cheap! people make money off of panic selling... it happens all the time.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:14 PM by bruxfain

Originally posted by larphillips

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by bruxfain

That makes no sense when they are basically getting free money given to them... The only way they will lose everything is if people, however they can, take it from them.

I'm going to nibble a little bit.

And right on que someone responds that it is impossible that the Big Investment could be outsmarted by the public. We so dumb and they so smart.

Dude, I assure you they have lost more than you can possibly imagine. I don't expect you to believe it. Your job is to convince people to arm themselves and protest and panic. Or to destroy their government or so on. Your script is to communicate the idea of hopelessness. I've got your program.

All of your base are belong to us now!!

Depends on who you define as the 'they.' The average rank & file worker at these large financial companies? They most certainly lost a lot... their jobs, perhaps their careers in an over-saturate job market, their savings if they owned stock in their company. The average stockholder who had a large portion of their portfolios in financials? Without a doubt. In any pyramid scheme, the bottom of the pyramid... the foundations that keeps the top safe and secure... is the first to crumble and the worst hit. But we don't take any pleasure in seeing these people suffer because they most certainly weren't the cause of this catastrophy. No, the true culprits have all already gotten away scot free... with their rich golden parachutes, payout bonuses, and generous severence packages. They saw the writing on the wall a long time ago because they orchestrated this mess. They definitely planned for the inevitable and shielded their fortunes... even bolstered them... prior to the meltdown.

Yes people did lose jobs. But they probably had savings, maybe they'll go home. Collect some unemployment, while they rebuild. If you were in the ship when it went down, I really don't know what to say to you.

I bet Dick Fuld and Franklin Raines would trade futures with you. Yeah, they, and people like them, got big cash settlements, but we're getting the whole world. They still have to live in this world and we'll always remember what they did.

I suppose in the end its all about how you want to be remembered and what it is that you think is important in life.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:24 PM by larphillips

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by larphillips

Originally posted by bruxfain

Originally posted by Zepherian
reply to post by bruxfain

That makes no sense when they are basically getting free money given to them... The only way they will lose everything is if people, however they can, take it from them.

I'm going to nibble a little bit.

And right on que someone responds that it is impossible that the Big Investment could be outsmarted by the public. We so dumb and they so smart.

Dude, I assure you they have lost more than you can possibly imagine. I don't expect you to believe it. Your job is to convince people to arm themselves and protest and panic. Or to destroy their government or so on. Your script is to communicate the idea of hopelessness. I've got your program.

All of your base are belong to us now!!

Depends on who you define as the 'they.' The average rank & file worker at these large financial companies? They most certainly lost a lot... their jobs, perhaps their careers in an over-saturate job market, their savings if they owned stock in their company. The average stockholder who had a large portion of their portfolios in financials? Without a doubt. In any pyramid scheme, the bottom of the pyramid... the foundations that keeps the top safe and secure... is the first to crumble and the worst hit. But we don't take any pleasure in seeing these people suffer because they most certainly weren't the cause of this catastrophy. No, the true culprits have all already gotten away scot free... with their rich golden parachutes, payout bonuses, and generous severence packages. They saw the writing on the wall a long time ago because they orchestrated this mess. They definitely planned for the inevitable and shielded their fortunes... even bolstered them... prior to the meltdown.

Yes people did lose jobs. But they probably had savings, maybe they'll go home. Collect some unemployment, while they rebuild. If you were in the ship when it went down, I really don't know what to say to you.

I bet Dick Fuld and Franklin Raines would trade futures with you. Yeah, they, and people like them, got big cash settlements, but we're getting the whole world. They still have to live in this world and we'll always remember what they did.

I suppose in the end its all about how you want to be remembered and what it is that you think is important in life.

Well, that thinking definitely works for "regular people." Unfortunately, these aren't regular people. Their families, and money families like theirs (Rothchildes, Rockafellers, Carnegies, Morgans, et al) have manipulated things like this, and worse, for hundreds of years. They don't care how history views them, they always come out on top, and their only concern is the continued amassing of weath and power. Sure, they have to live here too, but they don't live like the rest of us. They don't have the same concerns, worries, or fears... they manufacture the concerns, worries, and fears that you and I share. I have no problem with money and wealth... I'd like to know that one day, given lots of hard work, sound investments, and a little luck, that I could be rich one day. But that is all I, or most people, could ever attain. True wealth is out of the question. It is a VERY private club and they don't like to issue new memberships.

reply posted on 6-10-2008 @ 05:28 PM by tide88

Originally posted by larphillips
Another sign of massive, world-wide market manipulation (and a very easy way to appease the sheeple) is the sudden rise in strength of the dollar coupled with a dramatic decrease in the price of oil.

The dollar isnt strengthening. It is just that the other currencies are getting weaker. I am telling you. I predict they might all be about equal a year from now. Can you say one world currency.