Anti-sematism on ATS should not be tolerated. , page 11

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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Who's wishing for any death of anyone or anything? Did I say that? You lump anyone that does not want to believe the "unproven" media claims of death. There is enough evidence to suggest that both sides, not one but both sides, are creating propaganda pieces for the media.(Hell the media is the propaganda machine) That's what they expect from you, pity for one group and despise the other. Forget the fact that U.S., Israeli, Palestinian policies are the reason for this, not the citizens of those nations.

If someone denies the Holocaust and provides what he thinks as proof and you counter with something that refutes that proof, then that is called discussion Frank. This is a website for the dissemination of information in a Forum/Discussion type manner. Within your searches of this site you may find some info to be false, which is only expected. There are many opposing views.

Read my words people.... I am not an Israeli or Palestinian sympathizer.
I do not condone terrorism because I do not want to accuse either side of atrocities. I acknowledge that both sides are doing the same crimes against humanity.

I'm sure that others would echo my words. It seems to be echo'd in hundreds of posts on this topic.

reply to post by orderedchaos

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Okay, you're for freedom of expression.

I'm against hate speech.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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what book what proof their is no book there never was any proof that's why they try to lock up any body who questions the history because it is all a house of cards. Go read some real history. The truth does not fear investigation.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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I never denied I was anti-Jewish. I've got a problem with anybody who says they are better than me because they were born into a certain religion. I've got a real big problem with anybody who belongs to a religion that states that I am chattel.

reply to post by neves49

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It would be silly to deny that there was a holocaust. That would be like denying there was a Spanish inquisition. That would be like denying all history born before you.

Seriously, stuff happened before you were born, and even though you weren't there to witness it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There is plenty of evidence. They have a holocaust museum which includes many of the instruments used to torture people.

What about all of those mass graves for the holocaust victims?

Isn't the remains of those concentration camps proof enough for you? They still are around in parts of Europe.

Seriously, the only reason you're denying the holocaust is because you're a neo-nazi or because you're an anti-semite.

It's not like Jewish people did anything to injure you so there should be no reason for your hateful feelings towards the Jewish people.




[edit on 7-1-2009 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by neves49

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No Jew I know says they're better than other people because of their religion. You're letting other people's perception of Judaism brainwash you. Most Jews I've met are cool with me even though I do not believe in the religion.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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Just adding my two cents as have others to this thread. It's ok to be anit-sematic on this site as far as I'm concerned. It should be ok to be anti-christian, muslim, buddhist, atheist, whatever. If you get offended, get over it.

reply to post by jitombe

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No, it should be okay to be against the religion, but not the people itself. Do you see what I'm getting at? I'm trying to get these people to stop hating people because they believe in different things and I'm trying to get them to be critical of people in a non-hateful way. ATS is a discussion forum and I think that this amount of anti-semitism on ATS intimidates Jewish people from speaking up at ATS. You know how people complained about not getting Pro-Palestinian voices? I think we have less pro-Jewish people on here. I believe one of the ideas that ATS is founded upon is Trust... and I don't think members can trust one another if they hate each other because of their beliefs.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by jitombe

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No, it should be okay to be against the religion, but not the people itself. Do you see what I'm getting at? I'm trying to get these people to stop hating people because they believe in different things and I'm trying to get them to be critical of people in a non-hateful way. ATS is a discussion forum and I think that this amount of anti-semitism on ATS intimidates Jewish people from speaking up at ATS. You know how people complained about not getting Pro-Palestinian voices? I think we have less pro-Jewish people on here. I believe one of the ideas that ATS is founded upon is Trust... and I don't think members can trust one another if they hate each other because of their beliefs.

You really are an idealist and I think that's great. I just don't look at life the way you do and we are entitled to disagree on anything and everything. That's what ATS is all about. Not every religion has it right, someone has to be wrong and you need people to buy into whatever religion it is they subscribe to or none at all. Nobody on this planet knows what religion is the right one to believe in, you die and then you find out the truth.

reply to post by jitombe

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I would like to think that you find out the truth before you die.

You seem to have a negative attitude towards life. I used to think like that. I used to think that all there was in life was either subscribing to a religion or not and knowing the truth but in reality there is a lot more to life than that.

I'm just saying that you shouldn't hate a people that practice a certain religion. That's like what they did in the middle ages. Back then people were prosecuted for their different belief system and the catholic church ruled over all. Just kind of sickening really.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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The Holocaust, if it did happen, happened a long time ago. You don't hear the Japanese screaming out about the A-Bomb.

What i don't get, is why it gets mentioned over, and over again as an argument to everything that is totally unrelated to it. It is now 2009, and still, it is the Palestinian people who are the victims and who have been the victims for the last 60+ years and not the other way around. Proof is in the death toll, displacement, masacars, refugees, and the footage.

As for the museum... who in their right mind would run a profitable business from something so pathetic? Anything to make a dollar and fund the terrorism, murder and genocide of others.

So there seems to be a great divide. Some wont tolerate the truth, while others wont tolerate the lies.

reply to post by Obliterated

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Stop this nonsense. The holocaust happened from 1941-1945 and the death tolls are not exaggerated. I know that it might be impossible for you to conceive of how anyone could kill so much of one people but the same very thing is happening right now in Darfur and that should be proof enough that the holocaust did happen and that leaders would be able to kill so many people like that for a silly reason. Hitler was not a fictional character. He was an evil genius. He wasn't just created for the history textbooks. I suggest you read some history books on world war II and you will find that the holocaust certainly did happen.

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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I didn't say it didn't happen. I said if it did happen, it was a long time ago. Meaning, It's over! but the Palestinian Holocaust isn't. Some people will do anything to change the topic or divert the attention off what is happening. The Holocaust is not a defense for what is going on now or what has been happening for the last 60 years. The Palestinian people had nothing to do with any of it, yet they are the ones suffering as a result of it.

P.S. I do think the figures are exagerated
11million / 4 years = 2.75mil killed per year. /365 days = 7534 gassed per day...? That's alot of gas and alot of bodies to get rid of, and a mighty big hole to be digging every single day for 4 years don't you think?

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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1. People are still allowed to hate who they want. That part of speech is still protected. I know of a lot of disabled vets who fought for the right to have free speech no matter how vile or hateful it can be. You have a right to respond to it, not ban it.

2. No historian really knows the true amount of people killed during the holocaust. If they say only 2 million persons, that is still way too many. The number can be argued, the fact it happened cannot. Genocide happened in the Soviet Union and China, we don't hear complaints about numbers. The true numbers are unknown, with the lower end of one million and a higher end of seven million.

3. Until Israel apologizes for their cowardly attack against the USS Liberty in 1967, I do not thank they should be defended by our country.

4. Anti-Semitic also means against Arabs and Muslims. To just state it is against the Jews is wrong.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by Frankidealist35

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1. People are still allowed to hate who they want. That part of speech is still protected. I know of a lot of disabled vets who fought for the right to have free speech no matter how vile or hateful it can be. You have a right to respond to it, not ban it.

I don't think you should promote hate. That's an indefensible position. If you hate other people and want to kill them because of what they did then you stoop down to their level.

2. No historian really knows the true amount of people killed during the holocaust. If they say only 2 million persons, that is still way too many. The number can be argued, the fact it happened cannot. Genocide happened in the Soviet Union and China, we don't hear complaints about numbers. The true numbers are unknown, with the lower end of one million and a higher end of seven million.

I don't think it's a question as to whether their numbers are right. 6 million is an approximation. Here is a quote from an article I've gotten that shows some pretty scary figures.

The Holocaust is generally regarded as the systematic, state-sponsored persecution and slaughter of approximately 6 million Jews — two thirds of the total European Jewish population, and two-fifths of the Jews in the entire world — but also millions of other victims, by the Nazi regime and its collaborators under Adolf Hitler.

While the Jews were the primary target, there were many other ethnic, secular, religious, and national groups that suffered during the Holocaust, including Poles, Czechs, Greeks, Gypsies, Serbs, Ukranians, and Russians, as well as homosexuals, mentally and physically handicapped persons, trade unionists, prisoners of war, Jehovah's Witnesses, and uncounted others. All were targeted because of their perceived "racial inferiority."

www.u-s-history.com...

The article goes on to detail all of Hitler's autocracies against the Jews. I recommend you read it.

3. Until Israel apologizes for their cowardly attack against the USS Liberty in 1967, I do not thank they should be defended by our country.

You're treating Israel like they were the aggressor in all of this. If you were the leader of a nation and someone was launching rockets at you all the time what would you do? Let them keep watching rockets? That argument doesn't stand.

4. Anti-Semitic also means against Arabs and Muslims. To just state it is against the Jews is wrong.

This argument against the use of anti-semitic in this case also doesn't stand. If you know anything about history you would be aware that people who are against Jewish people in the past were described by that term.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I don't think you should promote hate. That's an indefensible position. If you hate other people and want to kill them because of what they did then you stoop down to their level.

Undefendable moral claims all have one thing in common.. they can be easily argued against. Besides, this high-and-mighty act of 'not hating other people' only seems to count in some cases, and in other cases it's set aside faster then a white-hot coal.

for example: saying you hate Jewish people because of their recent abuses of another people is 'unacceptable hatespeech' , while saying you think 'Palestinians deserve to die, they brought it on themselves' is commendable for many.. or the other way around, depending on your point of view..

The article goes on to detail all of Hitler's autocracies against the Jews. I recommend you read it.

Hitler is dead.. his bones must be basic ash by now.. and still he is (ab)used to vindicate the Jewish people of the criminal behaviour of their leaders.. Hitler was WRONG. Contemporary Israel is also WRONG..

You're treating Israel like they were the aggressor in all of this. If you were the leader of a nation and someone was launching rockets at you all the time what would you do? Let them keep watching rockets? That argument doesn't stand.

Google 'USS Liberty' before defending them.. the USS Liberty was an American vessel in International waters that was bombed hours on end by Israeli fighter planes. If you think 'they are not aggressors' in this case, I don't know what event would cause you to break out of the propaganda..

This argument against the use of anti-semitic in this case also doesn't stand. If you know anything about history you would be aware that people who are against Jewish people in the past were described by that term.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Se·mit·ic (s-mtk)

adj.

1. Of or relating to the Semites or their languages or cultures.
2. Of, relating to, or constituting a subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic language group that includes Arabic, Hebrew, Amharic, and Aramaic.

n.

1. The Semitic languages.
2. Any one of the Semitic languages.

Feel free to stick to your narrow interpretation offcourse, but yes, when you are hatefull towards Arabs, you are as Anti-Semitic as if you would hate on Jews.

there is an easy solution offcourse: Don't hate anybody!

[edit on 9-1-2009 by Phatcat]

reply to post by Frankidealist35

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1. I am not promoting hate, I just think people can hate if they want. Hate speech is protected just like all other types of speech. You have a right to respond to it, as you have been doing. Just because I am defending the rights of those who choose to hate, does not mean I am full of hate. I am just a person who defends the right of free speech no matter how vile it is.

2. Again, I am not denying the Holocaust or the terrible atrocities committed by Hitler and others (Stalin) during the war. It is the numbers that are not truly known. I think the number 2 million is just as horrifying as 6 million.

3.The USS Liberty was a listening ship, not a warship. They were attacked unprovoked by the Israelis. The ship was desperately radioing the Israelis to stop, but the attack went on to assure no survivors. This was because the ship had monitored some atrocities committed by Israel against the Arab soldiers (shooting prisoners of war in the back, etc). The American flag was quite visible on the ship, and it was noted in some of the Israeli transcripts of what happened. LBJ is at fault for not punishing Israel for the cowardly act. The story is in James Bamford's excellent book "Body of Secrets" (2002). The author uncovered many documents on what happened.

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