Originally posted by Frankidealist35
For some reason some people are thinking it's okay to hate the Jews and I think this kind of talk shouldn't be tolerated. Yes, there may be a conspiracy of bankers, and they may supposedly be Jewish themselves, but that isn't representative of ALL Jews, and, there may be people who deny the holocaust, but YES, 6 million people did die, and they are Hitler sympathizers, we know Hitler was bad. This act of denial shouldn't be allowed on the internet. We know that these certain events happened and just because they seem outside of the imagination of many doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I think that there needs to be a rule against anti-Semiticism or anti-any religion posts here on ATS to prevent flamewars against people from various religious sects who would get offended by such talks. Most notably are the people who deny the holocaust to be cool... they try to claim their free speech is violated when they argue against the holocaust... they try to support Hitler... but when they know what really happened. There needs to be a rule against this. I'm getting sick of these denial threads.

I don't label people into religion's. I don't have any problem with jew's or any religion.

I'm not religious, I'm spirtualist.

But to the point I want to bring up.
Speaking of Israel, a Jewish state, which was created illegally may I add. Has led to all sorts of problem's in the M.E But even right now Israel is Now playing havok around the ME. Threatening war, themselves. The Zionist's who are jewish are the ones that give the jewish people a bad name. It's Zionist's who are stirring up the conflict right now.

But my question is this.
Do Jewish and the people of Israel (Zionist's) support's this unacceptable aggression in the middle east right now.

That's what I want to ask? I'm really curious. Whether the Jewish themselves are against the Zionist's.

[edit on 29-11-2008 by mind is the universe]

Originally posted by tigpoppa i agree with thi more censorship is needed.

Ouch! So what are the guidelines that you would propose deciding if something is anti sematism (and this would HAVE TO include ALL the sects of semites to be fair)?

Should those guidelines apply to ALL races or is it just those comments having to do with semetic people?

Basically, should no one be able to express their views and opinions honestly? How about we just censor everything?

I think there have and are some ridiculous comments made, of which I have at one time contributed. I think those in charge of the site have done a great job of keeping things fair yet making sure that people express their opinions w/out being outright hateful.

I am waiting for the day when the atrocities that are going on by the zionist camp are allowed to be talked about w/out ppl wanting to scream "anti semite comment! censor him/her"... ridiculous and why so many innocent civilians are still being allowed to be slaughtered at the hands of a group that consists of people in our country's leadership. Grow up and get a backbone.

Dude...whatever floats peoples boats - as long as its not directly violating you.
Again, people can believe what they want...tooth fairy, santa clause, etc. - doesnt matter a bit to me, go for it.

Reaction is where the problem arises.
Taking other peoples 'stories' as your own 'story'/'problem' is the issue at hand.

How is your controlling what others think and say any different than the crimes you say they commit? You have free speech to say certain people shouldnt be tolerated... fine. And they have free speech to disagree.

Point is, if you really care about a solution, you will rise above all of this and "live and let live". But of course, you dont have to.

If you know something to be true, does it change because someone doesnt agree with you? This is how it seems that things are with many people...or at least its what shows in the fear of their words when posting.

If one group is put in a fence and told to shut up, its not different than if it was the other way around. We must guard ourselves from being each others prison guards.

Better put, we must watch to see that change is true..and not just a polarity shift.
What is good and evil? Its a matter of perspective. Good is what suits an individuals needs best, and likewise evil is what goes against that individuals needs.

When you get down to it, all of this is quite simple, and there isnt much to get upset about anymore. But we as humans do enjoy our drama...and this is what this board and other 'news' sites is about really...drama...polarities, etc.

You cant solve an issue until you realize that polarities are connected by the middle ground - its an even playing field, and we are all on the same side.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
For some reason some people are thinking it's okay to hate the Jews and I think this kind of talk shouldn't be tolerated. ... I think that there needs to be a rule against anti-Semiticism or anti-any religion posts here on ATS to prevent flamewars against people from various religious sects who would get offended by such talks. .......

Well Frank,
Not that I encourage hate in any form but it is possible that this is not such a bad place for people to air their sentiments on these types of issues. There are always different opinions to offset the ignorant. There are plenty of intelligent people with the common sense to argue against the hateful and myopic. There are plenty of moderators to kick the real jerks back into fair play if they get out of bounds and sometimes you get to witness a nice incisive act of sarcasm that makes bullfighting seem tame.
Don't let it get to you.
It's like the man said, "You can't fix stupid"

[edit on 29-11-2008 by badgerprints]

[edit on 29-11-2008 by badgerprints]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
People can question what really happened during WWII but they can't deny the fact that there is proof that 6 million people died.

But dont you see, this is the whole issue at hand.

You are stuck on WWII when we have millions dieing from horrors since then in various wars. But we are all stuck in one mode...with one event in our minds, and nicely ignoring the holocaust happening around us...this very day!

Isnt it interesting that what was supposed to remind us not to repeat history, has allowed us to repeat it... constantly.

Something to that old saying about you get what you focus on.

As long as we identify with the story of what happened in one point in history, then the wrongs done in our (current) times are justified by those who commit them...

Point is, the holocaust and Hitler become mini idols in our thoughts...to the point where no atrocity ever committed again can compare to it...or so those who commit the atrocities want us to believe. After all, even Hitler is not as evil as Hitler.

See where Im coming from?

Someone commits a crime while shouting, look over there, its worse than what I did.
(And in the background bombs explode and genocide happens, etc.)
Because everyone is so worried and stepping on tip toes as not to offend someone over an ideology.

Words are limited, and you have to feel to where they are pointing to.
If you dont get this...(and if your offended by this post, its a clear sign you didnt get it...) thats o.k. It is as its is.

Brining it home, I would say this.
The holocaust...which ever side you sit on - whether you believe or dont believe - the concept is there for both to know and remember that we are to treat each other as humans...to reach out and love each other.

But it seems we forget this lesson and turn it into another war...based on fear.
And at the same time we dont see around the world the mess that is happening to civilians by war conditions. We dont see it because we are in mass hypnosis to believe all things are o.k. until someone gives it a holocaust label...which will never be done, because it has been iconozized (made an icon, or whatever, out of.)

Death is Death...killing is killing...and the point is, again, to learn from our past in order to reach into a more peaceful future.

Ill be up front and say this post is by far not eloquent.
And I have not been able to word things how I would like. The concept is there, if you have an open heart you will hear.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 29-11-2008 by dAlen]

Reading threw ATS you will find bashing is wide spread .

Sheeple
Democrats
Republicans
Muslims
Christians
Atheists
UFO beleivers
UFO deniers
Liberals
Conservatives
Gays
911 skeptics
911 truth
Jews
Insert any tag here it will be bashed
.
If you cant take the heat stay out of the kitchen . And yes my views and heritage has been bashed also , Im still here reading

Get over it !

Anti-hate legislation has been working fairly well in Canada. People must be entitled to their ignorant opinions, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, political positions in a free society and in a free discussion forum. Hopefully the Mods will step in when contributors step over the line. Sometimes I feel they err on the side of being too permissive and more could be deleted due to personal attacks and writing that promotes hate. But, I think they do a good job of striking a balance and allowing things to be "lively". It seems many of us may benefit from learning to read and hear divergent opinions without reacting emotionally.

"the Supreme Court of Canada has laid out tough requirements for conviction. They include "willful intent to promote hatred."

"The (Criminal) Code also protects the defence of religious belief, and a requirement for the consent of the attorney-general for any prosecution," [openly gay Member of Parliment, Svend] Robinson said. "Does Mr. Toews, a former attorney-general (of Manitoba) himself, seriously believe that any Canadian attorney-general would prosecute those who simply quote the Bible?"

I am compelled to submit my opinion.

We MUST tolerate antisemitism, unless we are not willing to tolerate anti-US, anti-islamism, anti-catholic, anti-mason, or anti-anything else.

Capitulation to censorship of opinion is the most dangerous road to travel.

Okay let me clarify what I originally said in my OP. I believe that people should be allowed to criticize the Jewish religion but I don't think they should attack the people that are Jews. Anti-sematism in my belief is the attacking of specific persons that are Jews or of a religion of a book of any kind. Does that make sense?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35 Okay let me clarify what I originally said in my OP. I believe that people should be allowed to criticize the Jewish religion but I don't think they should attack the people that are Jews. Anti-sematism in my belief is the attacking of specific persons that are Jews or of a religion of a book of any kind. Does that make sense?

Key points in your post to point out:

1. "*I* believe"
2. "should be allowed"
3. "*I* don't think"
4. "should (not) attack the people that are jews"
5. "in my belief"

It makes sense to me that you want your way of thinking, ideals, and beliefs to take precedence over what other people think, their ideals, and beliefs.

You want what you perceive to be "antisemitism" to be weeded out.

And how do you feel about those threads against Americans? or the Mexicans? Or the Chinese? Why are those acceptable, but when hostility, venting, or anger is directed toward the Jews specifically, not so much acceptance?

The thing that ppl are trying to get across to you is that you are a part of a board where many people from many different backgrounds/cultures/belief systems come together to discuss what is going on in and around the world today.

The whole middle east has a huge bearing with politics, current events, and what has, can, and will happen.... and that affects us all... not just the jews. How can anyone REALLY learn different perspectives if a particular perspective (namely the one YOU are against) has to be kept under lock and key?

It is selfish and prideful to only submit the request that negative views of Jews and only Jews is bad and should be not be tolerated.

At the very least, show that *you* aren't biased by incuding all races in your "BAN negative free speech" campaign.

If any comments are made which are plainly posted just to hurt people of any religion, race or sexual disposition it should be apparent at first glance. And those get deleted if you rapport them.

If a post has been well thought out, documented and doesn't include slurs, I feel no topic should ever be banned.

But many topics which are of this nature get targetted as being 'anti-semitic' in nature, after which the topic usually devolves in a yes-no game on the anti-semitism topic.

Which makes me feel it's being used as a diversion to throw attention away from very real issues, and ground it down into a meaningless thread where the original topic at hand's message is lost completely.

If the OP's post was full of bogus information, I have no doubt his/her claims would be stripped naked and publicly spanked, based on their lack of merit. Why the fear to talk openly?

*edit to add: Maybe accusing someone of anti-sematism in a thread should be forbidden, that could be handled behind the scenes by the mod's on a case by base basis.. just my 2 cents..

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Phatcat]

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Phatcat]

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
For some reason some people are thinking it's okay to hate the muslims and I think this kind of talk shouldn't be tolerated. Yes, there may be a conspiracy of terrorists, and they may supposedly be muslim themselves, but that isn't representative of ALL muslim, and, there may be people who deny the hate mongering and suppression towards muslim nations, but YES, 100's of million people did die, and they are uninformed ignorant jackasses, we know all of history was bad. This act of denial shouldn't be allowed on the internet. We know that these certain events happened and just because they seem outside of the imagination of many doesn't mean that they didn't happen. I think that there needs to be a rule against anti-Islam or anti-any religion posts here on ATS to prevent flamewars against people from various religious sects who would get offended by such talks. Most notably are the people who deny the hatemongering to be cool... they try to claim their free speech is violated when they argue against the blind and idioting hate ... they try to support the lunacy ... but when they know what really happened. There needs to be a rule against this. I'm getting sick of these denial threads.

I could do the same with everything from floppy disks to aliens :p

The holocaust did happen, and the jewish people were persecuted by pure evil, but that doesn't give a bunch of zionist freaks that run Israel the right, godgiven or otherwise, to do what they have been doing since their conception. Nor does it give any jewish person the right to pull the "holocaust" card in perpetuity.

The Holocaust does not give Jews a free ride to be assholes for all eternity. God did not give them the land. The British did.

Originally posted by groingrinder
The Holocaust does not give Jews a free ride to be assholes for all eternity. God did not give them the land. The British did.

Agreed, but I think it is an oversimplification to say that the British gave them that land. It took more than the word of a Queen to make that happen. The land was rested from the local population by force. It wasn't only Great Britain that made that happen. And without the international banking community's machinations, it would have never happened at all.

[edit on 1-12-2008 by Maxmars]

Originally posted by thematrix
I could do the same with everything from floppy disks to aliens

That's crazy talk....everyone knows there was never such a thing as a "floppy disks"....

Where'd you get a nutty idea like that?