Was Isaac an Egyptian?, page 2

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reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:02 PM by undo

(Addendum: what i mean about the original adam and eve is, the first humans brought here from off planet, were black folks. the actual creation text of humans is set on another planet(s), elsewhere in the universe. and that it is entirely possible more than one version of adam and eve were created at the same time. all i know is, it really doesn't appear that humans of any race are indigenous to this planet. )

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:05 PM by undo

reply to post by smallpeeps

akhenaten is not moses. akhe worshipped the disk. this is not what moses was on about. sun and son, are two entirely different words in egyptian. the spelling is different, the hierglyphs are different and the phonetic sounds are different. sun of god and son of god, are not the same thing in the original language. it's only in english that they sound related and are spelled similarly

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:12 PM by undo

i suggest anyone really interested in the entire abraham and sarah passages to review it in the original language and ask yourself, what the heck is an "ISH"?

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:15 PM by smallpeeps

Originally posted by undoakhenaten is not moses. akhe worshipped the disk. this is not what moses was on about. sun and son, are two entirely different words in egyptian. the spelling is different, the hierglyphs are different and the phonetic sounds are different. sun of god and son of god, are not the same thing in the original language. it's only in english that they sound related and are spelled similarly

I'm glad you are certain, I however need more proof than your explanation which is like a chicken and egg argument.

Do you have any comments on the zodiacal allegories within the bible? I think it's funny how anll three of the world's major warmaking religions are from a guy who let his wife stay at the Pharaoh's house for a few weeks/months.

What was he thinking? Isaac's father was either extremely stupid or extremely weak, or I am right. Which do you think it was? What is the bible saying when their main Character, Abraham, father of all things, says his woman is not his wife, but his sister? When the king asks?

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:25 PM by ZeroKnowledge

I still fail to see any thing backing this theory. It takes what it likes and drops out what it likes, from the same book. Even from the same sentance! Hebrew language is not Egyptian. Hebrew writings is not Egyptian. There are few Egyptian words in Hebrew and vice versa. No archeological data shows presence of Egyptian pharaoh (or King David, sadly) as ruler of Israel. There are very few Egyptian-originated names in Jewish names.
Attempts to draw king David as Egyptian pharaoh are not holding any water too - since no facts are there. To me it looks like author of the site tries to push what he chooses to fit his idea of situation, disregarding numerous facts pointing otherwise.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:36 PM by undo

reply to post by smallpeeps

here's a relevant quote

In the Turin Canon catalogue of kings of the thirteenth dynasty, listed number 17, is "The General," with the throne name of Semenkhkare. (Gardiner's "Egypt of the Pharaohs", page 440; and Weigall's "History of the Pharaohs", pages 136, 151-152.) The Egyptian word for "the General" was Mermeshoi. Not in all dynastic history does this title appear again as the personal name of a ruler of Egypt. This General was Moses as will be demonstrated by a comparison with contemporary history. Two beautiful large granite statues of Mermeshoi -- the General -- have been found in the Delta at Tanis.

When Moses was made General or Commander of the Troops, he automatically inherited royal authority, as did Joseph before him. Only KINGS could have the supreme command of the army. That explains his appearance in this list. Before the rise to power of this famous General, the thirteenth dynasty was of Asiatic blood. Its kings at times bore the epithet "the Asiatic." There was consequently no basic prejudice in adopting the Hebrew child Moses into the family. (See Volume II, chapter II of the revised "Cambridge Ancient History", 1962)

The sixteenth king listed in the Turin Canon -- just before "the General" -- was Userkare Khendjer -- the latter being an un-Egyptian personal name. He ruled over the Delta as well as Upper Egypt. A pyramid of his has been found at South Saqqara. No descendant of his is known to have succeeded to the throne. Though nothing more is known of this man's family, every evidence points to him as the Pharaoh whose daughter is mentioned in the book of Exodus. Within a few years the influence of this dynasty in the eastern Delta ceased.

The kings of this period often have their names associated with King Neferkare on royal seals. This name is that of Pepi the Great. Here is the final proof that these rulers of Dynasty XIII were contemporary with the last great Pharaoh of the sixth dynasty of Memphis! More than one name on a scarab has puzzled many historians, who view Egypt as ruled generally by only one king at a time. But literally hundreds of such seals have been found. They are generally treated with discreet silence, for the implication of these seals would revolutionize the history of Egypt! (See "The Sceptre of Egypt", by William C. Hayes, Volume I, page 342.)

About 40 years after the reign of the General, Egypt collapsed. With the reign of the 25th king of the dynasty, nearly all contemporary evidence ceases. Foreigners invade the country. This period is summarized by Sir Alan Gardiner by the dismal words: "... darkness descends upon the historical scene, leaving discernible in the twilight little beyond royal names ..." (page 155 of "Egypt of the Pharaohs").

No internal dates for this dynasty are now available. But the history of this and preceding dynasties of Thebes can be restored Take the evidence of Barbarus, which gives the dynasty, while centered in the Delta, 153 years. Place this date in the 41st year before the collapse of Egypt in 1486. The 41st year before 1486 brings us to 1527. (This is when Moses is nearly 40 years old during the war with Ethiopia. When Moses is forty, in 1526 he flees Egypt.) The beginning of the dynasty was then 153 years before this, or in 1680. There were only two dynasties of Thebes before this time -- the eleventh and the twelfth. Dynasty XI ruled 143 years; the famous Dynasty XII for 212 calendar years. Add these figures up and one reaches 2035 -- the reign of Shem!

Now the story of Shem is clear. Shem came into Egypt to divide the country up into various kingships, in order to prevent the rise to power of one unified kingdom over the entire world.

But Shem did more than found a new kingship at Thebes -- he also established a kingship at Heracleopolis, south of Memphis. Manetho's Dynasty IX -- the first of two dynasties to be established in Heracleopolis -- ruled 409 years. It is exactly 409 years from 2035 to 1626, the date at which Dynasty VI of Memphis began.

The historians' fiction of an Old and a Middle Kingdom -- under Memphis, and then Thebes -- is completely demolished by these facts of history. It is, rather, the story of the kings of Memphis in Lower Egypt and the kings of Thebes in Upper Egypt ruling in a great confederacy.

www.cgca.net...

regarding the language

son is sȝ (pronounced "sa")

sun is itn (pronoucned "eeten")

as far as proving that moses wasn't worshipping the sun disk, well jehovah/yahweh doesn't seem to have anything to do with that subject. his name is not pronounced or spelled the same either.

i think what's happened is you are a victim of people who think the english language is the only language on the planet, ever.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 02:54 PM by undo

as far as abrahamic faiths being the sole proprietors of war, wow you don't know your history. here's a few clues:

how did the grecian empire become an empire?
how did the pagan roman empire become an empire?
have you ever read the mahabharata?
do you know the history of china?
how about japan?
what about the history of the vikings?

hello? earth to person who is claiming he needs evidence before believing something, did you forget to read the rest of history?

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 03:13 PM by undo

regarding the astrological connections.
the hebrews of the OT appeared to use the stars a bit differently than their contemporaries. the pagan priesthoods believed the stars could be used to divine things, whereas the hebrews used them as a calendar for important events, such as passover.

i also believe there's some connection, however remote, to jupiter (the planet) and enlil. i don't know how it works out but that council of gods mentioned by moses in deutoronomy is apparently the same group, repeated over and over again in every ancient culture. you can even see one of the famous grecian ones, APOLLO in the last book of the New Testament: Revelation, in chapter 9. In that text, he's called Apollyon. This is an aspect of Apollo as the god of plagues, the destroyer. Apparently the guy went bonkers one day and wiped out a bunch of humans.. I believe this name can be traced back, etymologically, to Enki.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 03:31 PM by bruxfain

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I have some curiosities that mabey you all can clarify for me.

First, I have studies the Bible endlessly, I do not feel that it is all what we think it is, a literal book of facts that pertained to the Hebrews/Jews.

When studying the Egyptian history, I find some interesting things. First, I read that circumcision started with the Egyptian Pharaohs. Second, I read that Amun-Ra was once carried in a box/Ark by the Egyptians.

Now let me ask some what ifs.

What if-Abraham was not Isaacs father. What if the long ages in the Bible were added so we dont associate the Hebrew history with the Egyptian history. What if, when Abraham and Sarah were in Egypt, and they lied to the Pharaoh about Sarah not being the wife of Abraham...what if Sarah got pregnant by the Pharaoh. What if Sarah, was carrying the bloodline of the Egyptian rule. What if this is the reason, even though the Pharaoh was mad at them for this lie, he still sends them away with many gifts. What if the secret of the Hebrews was that they were shunned out of Egypt and they tried to take the God out of Egypt. What if the whole reason God did go with Sarah and Abraham was because the baby that was due for the next inheritance was the baby of the Pharaoh. What if this is why we see a people that have now no land and who are not a nation....trying to become one and trying to say they have 'rights' to a particular land all because they considered themselves special enough to rightfully kill masses of people to take their land in Gods name.

Could there be a deeper Egyptian tie going on in the Old Testament that people are over looking?

Is there more to the name....Is-Ra-El?
Some say, Israel means Ra is God.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 4-10-2008 by LeoVirgo]

Adam, for just a moment, may have believed that Cain was not his son, but the Son of the serpent. But the serpent wasn't a man, but a woman. Pharoah likewise would have never been able to produce a male heir with Sarah, but only females. It's difficult to explain why, but if I must, I will. So it's impossible that Isaac was not Abraham's son. If Pharoah and Sarah produced children secretly, then Hagar was the product. Isaac was the vessel which carried the true promise and son of Abraham, a man.

I once pondered the thought that Ishmael was not Abraham's son, but the son of Eliezer of Damascus, which would mean that no Arab or Muslim can ever claim Jerusalem. See it works both ways.

Before the age of Pharoahs, and not all rulers of Egypt known to history where "Egyptians" some were Abraham's ancestors, and Egypt was one of the many lands they ruled. Many Pharoah's were just pretenders. Alchemists and Tricksters.

One of the "gifts" Pharoah sent Abraham away with was Hagar, as Pharoah knew who Abraham was, and in a way he knew Abraham's true identity and purpose in the world better than Abraham knew. Hagar was sent with Abraham and Sarah so that the serpent strain could have a place in the House of God's only man and heir to the TRUE PROMISE.

God led Abraham and his people through these different Worlds so these basic truths could be communicated to them and so they could learn and acheive the ultimate goal of history; Return to the Garden. This being a task no Pharoah or Emperor or Khan could ever accomplish, but only God's Man.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by bruxfain]

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 03:33 PM by smallpeeps

Originally posted by undo
as far as abrahamic faiths being the sole proprietors of war, wow you don't know your history. here's a few clues:

how did the grecian empire become an empire?
how did the pagan roman empire become an empire?
have you ever read the mahabharata?
do you know the history of china?
how about japan?
what about the history of the vikings?

hello? earth to person who is claiming he needs evidence before believing something, did you forget to read the rest of history?

The whole history of the last 2000 years (1350 year prior to that was Akhenaten) is all about Rome, and then the Romish Chruch. That much I know.

Prior to 1350bc, you'll have to educate me, although I know the surely the Med Sea was affected greatly by the Thera eruption, surely causing maritime activity and land-based invasions.

China, Japan, I've read about, seems like subduing the local natives went with them the same way it went with other natives: 1: send in the Romish agents, 2: debauch the local religions, and 3: give 'em the Pope.

History of the Vikings --look, you're obviously just way, way smarter than me so please do me this:

Tell me why Jesus' kingly line, that of Abraham and Isaac, is based on a guy who said his wife was his sister and let her have a multi-week sleepover at the Pharaoh's house?

[edit on 4-10-2008 by smallpeeps]

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 03:53 PM by undo

reply to post by smallpeeps

i'm not smarter than you. good grief. i just study these topics alot is all.

the answer to your final question is, because he was human.

this is the entire reason for the events leading up to the advent of yeshua (jesus, and pronounced joshua). the messiah had to be born human.

this is why noah's family (and a few other people scattered acrsos the globe, it seems) were saved from the flood: they were human.

the flood was about wiping out the completely toxic environment the planet had become. the genome of nearly every living thing on the planet had been tinkered with. there were rampant hybrids. such as today, we have tomatos that have had recombinant DNA from scorpions mixed in, because it apparently acts as a natural bug repellant. but back then, the hybrids were very dangerous to the ecology of the planet. the surface was also pock marked with war (read mahabharata, for example), radiation and pollution was rampant, of every conceivable kind. a horrible drought struck, and natural flora and produce died off, animals were no longer edible because of tampering with their DNA had created serious illnesses and diseases, etc, it's like a carbon copy of today but worse (We haven't fully arrived yet). humans were horribly hybridized in many cases, and it says, in the book of 1enoch, as mankind died in misery, their cries went up to heaven. and the nephlim, who were a hardier hybrid, took to eating the remaining humans as a food source. so rather than allow the human genome to be completely wiped off the earth, they were saved if they were human.

this is repeatedly the task of the hebrews. deliver human DNA to the advent of christ. that was their only task.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:00 PM by smallpeeps

Originally posted by undothis is repeatedly the task of the hebrews. deliver human DNA to the advent of christ. that was their only task.

Your fantasy sounds as amazing as mine, lol

You have all these conclusions, and all I am doing is asking you simple questions. I'll need to read more to understand that Isaac was not the Pharaoh's son, because the bible seems to be telling me that, as is history. I am so ready, however, for you to teach me.

It's obvious, that the bible was edited by both good and evil forces. It is alos obvious that each person must use their critical faculties to find the truth. What is unfortunate is that you have set all that into stone with your interpretation.

To me, when I hear people like you, I feel like Bruce Lee, trying to break up stupid martial artists ideas of what worked and what didn't. If both good and evil have altered the bible, then we must look below the surface, and be grateful for where the good (truth) was left in. That's what I think.

And the history of the tombs of egypt (Yuya and Tut) paints a much bigger and simple picture than your theory can cover over.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:05 PM by Eleleth

Originally posted by undo
well my theory on this is, we aren't even from this planet. that eden was somewhere else in the universe. that this planet was owned by a race of bipedal serpent beings, who were later called the seraphim. they are a race, created by God, who became angels. i think the one we refer to as the serpent in the Garden, brought us here as slaves, and that the lie, was teaching us their knowledge of civilization.

Interesting. The Gnostic and Islamic creation accounts both place the Garden of Eden on the astral plane, and On the Origin of the World additionally locates it "outside the orbit of the moon and the orbit of the sun". What seems to have happened is that spirit became entrapped first in the modeled form of the astral body, the soul, and then further imprisoned in the physical form when it was cast out of the garden and given "coats of skins." Thus we have St. Paul saying, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."

[edit on 4-10-2008 by Eleleth]

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:06 PM by undo

reply to post by smallpeeps

it's true, all you have to do is read the ancient writings of sumer, akkad, babylon, the pentateuch (torah), the old and new testament, hebrew pseudopigraphia, and even the texts of the hindu and some of the chinese!
if you follow the cookie crumb trail, you can see it's all over the place. heck there are even egyptian texts that support my theory, such as the
LEGEND OF THE DESTRUCTION OF MANKIND, in which Ra sends out his Eye, which he calls Hathor, to destroy the planet with a flood of red water. Ancient history is not the fables you've been lead to believe. Those people drew those conclusions during the beginning of the enlightenment period before the advent of archaeology. Once these ancient texts started being proven by artifacts from the earth, they ignored the evidence and continued on teaching people that the ancient past is a fairy story.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:14 PM by bruxfain

reply to post by smallpeeps

I want to field the question about why did Abraham lie about Sarah being his sister instead of telling the truth that she was his wife.

After the fall in Eden, the whole world became the possession of Satan. The true King and his successors lived just as any other person and in History are not at all remembered or ever known as Kings. Hercules, Achilles, Perseus, etc. are all True/Natural born Kings, but in the world of Satan they are Mythological Heros and the world accepts this.

Abraham lied and said that Sarah was his sister because he knew the ways of the Egyptians and he knew that if had told the truth to Pharoah that Sarah was his wife, he'd have been identified immediately and put to death. Jesus admitted what Abraham didn't. In Hell a Natural Born King is enemy #1 and false Kings are wealthy men.

The truth isn't greeted well in a world of liars.

Nevertheless, in the world of Satan, women have penises. Pharoah in the big picture wasn't even a man and his attraction to Sarah was a lesbian crush; the only possible outcome in such a pairing would be a woman. Don't you see the logic in this.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:17 PM by smallpeeps

Originally posted by undo
if you follow the cookie crumb trail, you can see it's all over the place. heck there are even egyptian texts that support my theory, such as the

So you've followed a cookie crumb trail, and all we need to do is do the same thing with the trail of cookie crumbs you are leaving? Is that two trails of cookie crumbs?

I think it's funny how the bible records more than one case of where a man lets his wife cohabit with another king. I think your picture is far to complex, and therfore, not accesible to the common people (Jesus' People that is) and therefore, false.

Truth is easy, you just have to look a little deeper, but the tombs of Yuya and Tut can leave no more questions. Your trail of breadcrumbs, and all the various threads, cannot be grasped by the simple people of earth. Therefore, it is false. What I am saying, however, is very simple.

[edit on 4-10-2008 by smallpeeps]

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:23 PM by undo

reply to post by Eleleth

yes, i've read that. it's very interesting!
these old texts are full of little glimpses of each other. it's literally all over the place

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:25 PM by undo

reply to post by smallpeeps

human history is complex.
we're covering thousands of years here.

what you seem to want to do is call me a liar.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:26 PM by LeoVirgo

I think the most interesting thing is that the Ark could of originated in Egypt. I think there was a desert god in Egypt called Yah/Yaw...I find this curious too.

I dont know how much the language thing would really have to show similarities. If there was a 'Genisis' kind of story that the Hebrews wanted to pass on as their history or origin...I dont see why they couldnt take the story, pertain it to themselves, add then their history after leaving Egypt then using their lanuage to rewrite the creation story with additions of thier history as well as adding prophetic literature that could of even had an earlier origin. We have the famous story in Isiah, about the fallen one. Some say this is Isiahs prophecy of the fallen angel Lucifer and some say its the story about a fallen Babylon King, Helel (something like that). There is old Cannon stones that tell of this story, the fallen one who was wanting to be higher then the Almighty one and its dated to pre date Isiahs time. If there is any speculation of any stories from the OT to be of inherited by the Hebrews I think it should be looked into more then a shrug of the shoulders.

I cant help but to wonder what Jesus learned about while in Egypt. Why would he need to go learn in Egypt at all really.

Thanks for the responses, this is something I have been pondering on a while.

reply posted on 4-10-2008 @ 04:29 PM by undo

reply to post by LeoVirgo

that passage is pretty darn interesting. i think it's talking about Enki, the serpent who was in the Garden of God. the serpent lost his legs, but that's okay he just found a new body to inhabit, in fact, he found a whole series of them in the dynastic pharaohs

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