Who won tonights debate?

biden clearly won if you value facts and substance over folksy style. palin rattled off the buzzwords she rehearsed and crammed into her brain. she didn't answer questions and continued to repeat the lies of mccain. we already had 4 years of a "joe six pack president" and look where we are now. america shouldn't elect their leader based on whether they want a beer with the person and we don't need a man with hair trigger temper nor a vice president with expanded powers. if i hear hockey mom one more time, i'll think i'll scream.

reply to post by OralFixation


There's a short "Best quotes of the debate at: Yahoo

It is actually fair and impartial.

"Say it ain't so Joe" is as old as the hills and goes back to the 1919 World Series being fixed. kudzumonthly.com

Originally posted by ZuzusPetals
Flow chart explains all. Stepford Veep knocked it out of the park. OMG! Mary Tyler Veep is such a good debater.

do you have anything more to offer than simple political baiting?

like, for instance, a relevant fact or two?

i offer 14:

Joe Biden's 14 Lies

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

Source


if there is a dispute about these claims, i'd be delighted to analyse them one by one.

reply to post by feydrautha


Excellent list!

Honestly, if the average American payed any attention at all, they saw a victory for Palin last night.

She made point after point that Biden's only response for was to keep repeating the same tired lines.

I loved the moment when Palin corrected him on what the generals in Afghanistan said. It panned back to Biden and he was looking down like a little kid and said, "Yeah, well, he did say that. ANYWAY…"



Priceless.

reply to post by Atlantican



oh don't tell me.....

what would that make her? a daughter of job ? eastern star?

I think the wink sums it all up, the corporations in control pushing out the old sex sells mantra and propping a well scripted Palin out there on the assumpution that every American is as dumb as the corporations think they are.

As i was fan of neither candidates after catching this on youtube, i have to say for the sake of the world pick the lesser of two evils America and go for Obama and Biden.

reply to post by SR


what the hell? so she's a woman? if a woman runs for president we have to
refuse because it's an attempt to sell sex? what the hell, i say again?

some people are so freakin' desperate to support their party, they'd sell every woman in their family down the river!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by feydrautha

The media is reporting the Biden won. CNN

updated 1 hour, 13 minutes ago

Debate poll says Biden won, Palin beat expectations. Story Highlights

51 percent say Democratic Sen. Joe Biden wins vice presidential debate

Republican Gov. Sarah Palin exceeds expectations, 84 percent say

Palin beats Biden on likability, 54-36

"But respondents said the folksy Palin was more likable, scoring 54 percent to Biden's 36 percent. Seventy percent said Biden was more of a typical politician".

If anyone missed the debate, it can be viewed at YouTube
Everyone should view the debate and make up their own mind. There is a lot of media bias around, and it's important that each voter make up their own mind after viewing the video, not after reading 'yellow journalism."

It was the first time I had watched Sarah Palin, and I was favorably impressed. She is very likeable. Of the four candidates, I like her the best.

Palin is more of a middle class person who has her roots firmly planted on the ground, was raised as a middle class person, and shares many core values with the middle class.

She didn't get any trips to Europe for a graduation present. She has had to work for a living, and thus understands our plight better.

Theodore Roosevelt had essentially the same experience as Palin and went on to become an outstanding President.

Palin is a fast study, and will pick up momentum.

Palin was debating a professional politician who has spent over 35 years in the Senate. I'd say she exceeded expectations in her performance.

A lot of this campaign rhetoric that the Democrats blaze is empty rhetoric. McCain's problem is that he isn't a street fighter, and I'd say that Palin fills that void to a certain extent.

In the end, it all really depends on who gets the vote out.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SR

 

what the hell? so she's a woman? if a woman runs for president we have to
refuse because it's an attempt to sell sex? what the hell, i say again?

some people are so freakin' desperate to support their party, they'd sell every woman in their family down the river!

[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

It's nothing about her being a woman if she had any actual substance to stand on i'm sure Mccain would of walked the election,

But it's a bad joke when even Hillary starts to look more appealing than Palin becase at least Hillary had actual substance. Not because Clinton was a democract either she could of been a republican for all i cared the point is the same.

Substance not a bag full of tricks and a good script.

How's Palin gonna survive in the hot seat when she doesn't have a script to read.

Winking to the world leaders, giving them corny quips about being a mom, or how they way they run things isn't how Alaskans do it. The novetly will wear out fast.

I'm sure your everyday American citizen when hit with rising taxes over the next year and fuel prices isn't going to find it funny after a while either.

What next the poor within the American public told to go hunt there own food in winter instead of food stamps, Rape Victims forced to self abort in primitive ways cause Palin aint going to let them get abortions.

The sad indictment of the whole situation is Palin is deemed as a winner because she didn't meltdown the whole party as expected and Biden is railed on for lying or making gaffes.

But you have to wonder as slimy as Biden is to exgarate on policies means at least he has knowledge on it in the first place to be able to exgarate on them instead of constantly contradicting them. To be able to lie his way out even if he is caught doing so at least shows he has a understanding.

Which is more than can be said for Palin who has time and time again contradicted Mccain and the republican party in some of the most ridicolous ways and then she seems to be ducking and diving the rest of the time.

ladies, isn't it nice to know this is how women are viewed today in the USA? all our progressive, women's rights policies haven't done diddly squat! they still think we are bloomin' idiots and sex objects! in fact, it's probably worse now than it was in the 50s, when there were alot less "progressive" ideas.

reply to post by SR


talk to the hand buddy.
you're insulting my gender

I like where Biden tried to again use information that was proven false after Obama tried to use it in the Presidential debate.

FactCheck.org emphasis mine

Biden said that Iraq had an "$80 billion surplus." The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year, as we noted when Obama used the incorrect figure. A $21 billion supplemental spending bill, passed by the Iraqi legislature in August, knocked down the old projection.

Biden said four times that McCain had voted 20 times against funding alternative energy. However, in analyzing the Obama campaign's list of votes after the first presidential debate, we found the number was actually 11. In the other instances the Obama-Biden campaign cites, McCain voted not against alternative energy but against mandatory use of alternative energy, or he voted in favor of allowing exemptions from these mandates.

I guess they are following the old rule if you repeat something enough it becomes true.

Also he looked like a complete fool talking about the current VP not knowing about Article I of the Consutitution defining the role of the VP... when the Executive branch is covered under Article II! If Palin had made an idiotic blunder of that proportions the MSM would wet their pants in excitement. But since it's Biden mums the word.

Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history. The idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.

Article I only talks about the VP tie breaking vote.

who the freak keeps starring his posts? he's not even an american, discussing how OUR women should be viewed in public office! what's up with that guys? huh?

think for five seconds? you realize the venue you are operating in is global and some of these other people, they don't have our best interests at heart, period, end.of.story!

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SR

 

talk to the hand buddy.
you're insulting my gender

What the hell???

You don't speak for the whole female race??

Would you allow Sarah Palin to do the same if faced with a tough choice or decision??

To say 'talk to the hand world i'm not listening'



Nobody has insulted anything or anyone i certainely haven't insulted the female race i've pointed out the Republican VP faults. If you have a problem with that go take it up with feminists who demanded equal rights Which also infers equal responsiblity and equal scrunity.

In the spite of breaking godwins law here your false high moral stance is nothing more akin to Nazism or Facism. People can't criticse a female candidate now?? What a joke.

reply to post by nyk537


She didnt even know the Generals name. Repeatedly.

i think i know what the problem is: PROJECTION. when a woman is attractive, it causes a physiological reaction in the hetero males that see her, and they project their sudden lack of blood in their brains, to her instead, assuming she's dumb and they are simply sensing it, remotely, when in fact, it's just they need to be in better touch with how their bodies work so they don't continue to promote the stupid stereotype that beautiful women are idiots into the next millenia!



[edit on 3-10-2008 by undo]

reply to post by SR


oh you got me there! that's why every opportunity is taken to criticize her based on her gender. she's a dumb mom. she's a dumb hockey mom. she's a dumb beauty queen hockey mom. she's a dumb beauty queen hockey mom from alaska, where the hell is alaska!
this goes on and on and on, and has absolutely nothing to do with the issues, only her gender. same thing happened to hillary!!!

notice how they keep harping on the concept that she's a good public speaker? what did they expect? it's a crime now for women to be good public speakers!

next, they criticize the fact that she's a mom. what the hell do moms know about politics? hello? earth to people who claim they are progressive!

this is a deliberate attempt to make you see everything she says as scripted idiocy!

un.freakin.believable.