Artifact from Atlantis?, page 9

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 67 times

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 04:25 AM by stikkinikki

The top of the vase has what looks like a seam running vertically through it so it was probably made from a mold. This vase looks a bit art nouveau or art deco to me so I see no reason to assume it was on a pirate ship or spanish galleon. Like a previous poster said it is likely chinese import for a western audience. It could also be made domestically in the late 19th to early 20th centuries as our society was gaga over chinese and japanese motifs. For instance Frank Lloyd Wright drew from Japanese architecture as a base for his style.

Ships have been lost at sea since time began. No reason at all to automatically place this in the 15th or 16th centuries.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 06:35 AM by Skyfloating

Originally posted by LEAP STICK
reply to post by Skyfloating

So why did you automatically query Atlantis, that would have
been my last thought not the first.

Three reasons:

1. Atlantis had been on my mind a few days before receiving this (and Atlantis had normally not been on my mind)

2. Auctioners and Scientists couldnt define where it is from

3. It was found in the Atlantic Ocean.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 06:42 AM by Cythraul

The reason the design and patterns on the artefact seems like a messy collaboration of multiple ancient cultures is because Atlantis (for those inclined to believe in its existence) served as the genesis and influence for many of the world's ancient cultures. Noble Atlanteans, fleeing the island prior to its destruction spread about the globe 'civilizing' tribes everywhere, teaching them about art, music, science and agriculture. That is why the Mayans have tales of 'white, bearded gods' and the Egyptians tell of 'the sages' etc. Atlantean styles of art and design would have been adopted (or imparted) differently with each culture that came into contact with survivors.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 06:47 AM by Skyfloating

I will be relaying the following questions you guys asked to the owner:

1. Weight?

2. Volume?

3. Has it been carbon-dated?

____________________________-

For those asking about the material: This has already been answered a few pages back.

Those of you saying that its difficult to assign to one single culture: This has been confirmed many times. Thats why it is likely that it is from a culture we do not know.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 06:53 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 06:58 AM by spacebot

I didn't read but the original post and I want to make my own contribution to this thread. After posting I will read the whole thread.

It seems like a bronze artifact.
A very nice piece of original art.
About the design decorations displayed:

a) Is not following a strictly stylized theme we can recognize and attribute some identity for this artifact, thus it must not have been intended for a ceremonial purpose and might depict a representation of simple decorative art themed after a general and vague trend from the community it originates.

b) Is following a strictly stylized theme but the general theme of the era is more relaxed. Such a type of relaxation in languages, artistic themes, styles in religious practices often can be attributed to long distances with the geographical sources from where the actual arts, themes, and any practices emerge.

In this manner we are identifying some themes, a labyrinth, a womb, a vague artistic representation of a medusa's head curved out like a non detailed description of a face, and a prevalent stopped meander theme.

Aspects of the artifact like the handles shapes, and the lamina of the upper part of the vase especially reveal that the artifact was created from a community that was advanced in metallurgy.

It appears that the construction required three stages, one for producing the overall shape, one for producing the laminar parts and one for joining everything together.

It is a work of an advanced craftsman.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by spacebot]

A common modern misconception about Atlantis is that in antiquity was perceived as the mother of at least the western civilization.
Regarding Atlantis itself:

Atlantis (in Greek, Ἀτλαντὶς νῆσος, "island of Atlas") is the name of a legendary island first mentioned in Plato's dialogues Timaeus and Critias.[1]

In Plato's account, Atlantis, lying "beyond the Pillars of Hercules", was a naval power that conquered many parts of Western Europe and Africa 9,000 years before the time of Solon, or approximately 9600 BC. After a failed attempt to invade Athens, Atlantis sank into the ocean "in a single day and night of misfortune".

As a story embedded in Plato's dialogues, Atlantis is generally seen as a myth created by Plato to illustrate his political theories[citation needed]. Although the function of the story of Atlantis seems clear to most scholars, they dispute whether and how much Plato's account was inspired by older traditions. Some scholars argue Plato drew upon memories of past events such as the Thera eruption or the Trojan War, while others insist that he took inspiration from contemporary events like the destruction of Helike in 373 BC or the failed Athenian invasion of Sicily in 415–413 BC.

While wiki often is not an accurate source, what is stated in the above is precise.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by spacebot]

Classification of Copper and its alloys

[edit on 25-9-2008 by spacebot]

Can ancient artifacts preserve their details?

[edit on 25-9-2008 by spacebot]

About the "two faces" facing each other engravings:

Pakal the Mayan astronaut, broke down in to parts

There is a striking similarity and it seems like a Mayan theme, although I believe they are picturing a stylized part of a womb. It was the only page I could find having the "Pakal astronaut" theme broke down in parts.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by spacebot]

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 07:00 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 07:07 AM by Anonymous ATS

Looks Like an old Brazier to me.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also, the "patina" looks like a paint effect. Not saying it is for sure, but the pics make it look like it has been creatively painted to appear "ancient"

Later!

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 07:51 AM by Anonymous ATS

Hello,
I have seen these before and can confirm it is not from Atlantis but actually man made. Please could you provide more details on when it was taken to the Museum from the record / log. Im suprise the Museum just gave this away to an employee??

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 07:53 AM by monkeybus

pretty sure it is bronze like this artifact

these are around a Thousand years old. And also cast bronze from Sanxingdui. in china.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 07:57 AM by Anonymous ATS

The faces actually resemble the Mesoamerican hairstyles and face structure. Look at the hair and look at an Aztec citizen, look at the hooked nose also.

Oh and can someone tell me when they announced Atlantis was indeed real? Source please.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 08:08 AM by julugu

One question for you. Is it hollow all the way through? Or only the top?

Thanks

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 08:08 AM by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Oh and can someone tell me when they announced Atlantis was indeed real? Source please.

Who is "they" and why would I need their approval before pursuing investigation?

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 08:31 AM by seagrass

Those masked men are a thread all in themselves... wow. How creepy alien looking are those? The patina does match in color to the bronze example. I think the Ming example earlier is the closest and best lead to follow. I still do not see a source, and when you put Ming in a search you get the typical blue and white porcelian (sp) examples. That vase had the same spiral design in the background and similar arch design. scrolls too. Even the three tiered look.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 08:58 AM by spacebot

reply to post by Umbra Sideralis

The virgin sacrifice to a bull is an assumption, even the whole human sacrifice idea as researchers admit is not based on safe ground, although there were like themed ceremonies reminiscent of symbolic events like a ceremony where in an underground maze of a temple a ceremonial of consisting a man wearing a contraption like the head of a bull and a young maid re-enacted the myth of Pasiphaë. It is also pictured in a great almost documentary detail in a greek speaking movie which must make some research to actually remember the tittle and the director, to find it in youtube if someone has uploaded it.
The myth and ceremonies were riddled with major important enigmas for the Minoan mindset.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by spacebot]

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 09:27 AM by stikkinikki

Originally posted by seagrass

Originally posted by skeptic1
Looks similar to this (designs), Ming Dynasty Bronze Vase:

For a larger image: Larger photo:
VERY close. If is Ming it is still worth a bunch of money!!!

Bingo!

This has been driving me crazy and I think you found the closest match so far. I thought those angled protrusions at the bottom of the vase were Chinese all along.

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 09:27 AM by Matt_Mulder

reply to post by Skyfloating

Looks like a novel scenario to me...
IMO it's probably from Mexico, from the time of the precolombian civilizations. What made me think about that is the small labyrith-squares on every side, which is typical from these cultures.
It looks like a ceremonial artifact, as an ATS member thought, i agree with him. Probably they used to put things in it, massive, like a giant candle of a decorative wooden or stone statue, i dunno.
However, its origin can't be determined but don't assume it's from Atlantis.
Maybe it was a unique artifact which was contained in a ship which was sunk, the streams separated the contain from the remains of the ship...who knows? For as long as specialists haven't given their 2c, we'll be drawing plans on the comet (french expression, sorry)

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 09:30 AM by seagrass

Originally posted by spacebot
reply to post by Umbra Sideralis
I think you are also referring to the Mithra Cults. Also extremely popular in Rome. Mithraic

[edit on 25-9-2008 by seagrass]

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 09:30 AM by Melyanna Tengwesta

The owner of the object has already taken it to various experts and they couldnt tell him where its from. Hence this thread.

Straight from the Atlantic Ocean

OK then! Well I'm NOT giving up yet

Don't hope ur friend went to Europe to show it to experts here. Mr. Beekhuizen replied to me today and gave me a name of an Asian objects & Artefacts expert in my hometown. I'll forward the pix etc.

Is the object showed in a newspaper somewhere or on tv yet? That cud possibly enlarge the amount of incoming tips.

When your friend’s object is indeed found approx 100 yrs ago it cannot be Art Deco, not even Chinese for the European market because Art Deco period was between 1920 – 1930.

I checked some Pagan Art, to compare the object with Celtic Artifacts, but ur friend’s object is too good preserved to be that old.

Roman Legionary Dragon Head Armour Piece found in Northern UK

Anglo Saxon (with Briton influence) Bronze Carving Knife Handle:

Source: www.kingarthurbanner.com (click on artifacts) has very good description of objects, which culture they are from and which time period.

Compared it with some Japanese and Chinese artifacts too:

[IMG] www.ichibanantiques.com...[/IMG]

This is a Ming Bronze Gu Shaped Vessel with Molded Design

This bronze ritual wine vessel was made in the 13th century BC, in the Shang or Yin Dynasty of China,1600 BC - 1046 BC . (Smithsonian, Washington, D.C).

I’m still puzzled …

reply posted on 25-9-2008 @ 09:30 AM by 44soulslayer

reply to post by stikkinikki

Its not a vase. Why would a vase have massive gaps in its sides?

This is a rather unique artifact... I cant seem to find anything with such gaps in the side (other than the bells that I mentioned Ive seen first hand).