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Artifact from Atlantis?

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posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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thebergs@snet.net

Here is the e-mail address for the site where I found the Ming Dynasty vase that I posted about.

I can't access the original pictures SkyFloating posted from the computer I am on now (or I would e-mail them), but if someone wants, they can e-mail these people from that website (they specialize in Japanese and Asian art) to see if it could possibly be a Ming Dynasty piece. The website says they won't do apprasails, but they might be able to shed some light on the piece.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by skeptic1]




posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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I have seen lots of old bronze and this is made to look antique...



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by Marked One
Whatever it is? Wherever it is from? I WANT it.

Seriously. Try going to this website: "www.beforeus.com"
The person running it is Jonathon Gray. Archaeologist. E-mail him and he should give you some good fair answers.


Would you like to email him?

And would someone else like to email the Chinese experts posted by skeptical1?

ATS is supposed to be a collaborative effort



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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I did a little more digging, found another expert, and shot an e-mail off to them about this, as well as sending it to the people I posted about a few posts up (I finally made it home to my computer where I could access the pictures).

I sent them a few of the pictures, so hopefully, they can either tell us what it is or at least steer us in the right direction.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by skeptic1]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I thought you could only carbon date living, or previously living matter due to the isotope of carbon that has it's half life measured is not found in inanimate..stuff.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Why don't you send the pictures to sotheby's in New York?

I've had a few artifacts of mine assessed by them- their the best of the best and are very open minded and prompt in their responses.

Just a thought!



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Why don't you send the pictures to sotheby's in New York?

I've had a few artifacts of mine assessed by them- their the best of the best and are very open minded and prompt in their responses.

Just a thought!


Why dont you?


Anyway, its already become apparent that all these experts we´ve already consulted dont know what it is.

This thread shows a wild variety of contradictions as to its origin.

And thats good news for those looking for the mysterious.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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it looks fake. don't hit me.



the patina looks forced, fabricated.
the mixing of cultural motifs, also is suspicious, but
the clincher is the ....how do i put this gently...
parts appear to be made by an amateur metalworker.
of course, that could mean anything.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Real pieces look fake, fake pieces look real...I dont know by which standards we can make such a judgement. To me it has a really real feel to it



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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I went ahead and forwarded the e-mail I sent out to a few consultants at Sotheby's in New York.

Who knows?? Maybe any of the 4 people/companies I sent the pictures to can identify it for us....



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by undo
 


Real pieces look fake, fake pieces look real...I dont know by which standards we can make such a judgement. To me it has a really real feel to it


well, comparative analysis is useful, but we don't have anything to compare it to. the closest innovations in metallurgy we are allowed to see from that timeframe, shortly after that time frame, or before it, don't depict this type of artifact, and are mostly made by human slaves who were taught how to forge.

what really bugs me are the layered motifs. it doesn't "feel" real to me, and i don't know why, other than what i've observed.




[edit on 25-9-2008 by undo]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by undo
 


Alright. Standby. More expert opinions upcoming...



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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Sorry if this has been said, but if you were to flip this image upside down, the 'carving' on the bottom is a bull, from what I see. Horns, snout, even eyes and a definitive head outline, There are 2 'patterns either side of the mouth that don't fit, maybe a framing device? lol.

As far as memory serves me, weren't bulls revered in in ritual sacrifice, aswell as worship, for there use in ploughing? They were seen as a guardian of fertility and agriculture? Which wouls suggest a ritualistic purpose, as some have said, a candle holder, or something greater?

Looks like it's either copper or bronze if you ask me, signs of oxidation (oxidising? lol), which rules out gold.


Great find Sky, star and flag for defo.

EMM

Edit: Right, cropped and rotated it



Anyone else thinks it looks like a bull? Seems to have leaves on its foreheade, maybe like a crown? signifying a link to agricultre? just guessing here.


I suspect if it is a lantern/ flame holder the keys on its side may hold a clue. If it were designed to hang in the air you would expect to see three sets of "keys", as only two would allow the torch to flip over. three would steady it. This item only has two so I would suspect they are pivot points where the torch slips into pins or dowels or even tied in place and at the bottom of the container is a bar or wooden slat to keep it from tipping...


I thought the same thing, I immediately thought of raiders of the lost ark, to pick up and move the 'ark of the covenant' metal poles were slipped in and a man at front and back carried it, I imagined this being carried to the altar.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 25-9-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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Heard back from one of the antique dealers I e-mailed.

According to him:




I am only guessing but they look more like middle Eastern origin to me - the calligraphy looks like it might be Persian and I have not seen that shape in Asian antiques.


So, now I am off to dig up someone who deals with Middle Eastern/Persian antiques.

And, the search goes on.....

Edit to add: Just found an expert on Middle Eastern art and forwarded the info on to them.

[edit on 9/25/2008 by skeptic1]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 



I have to say, reading through the entire thread and listening to all the different opinions and thoughts.


i think this answer is probably the most on track...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Although I'm waiting to see what happens....


[edit on 25/9/08 by blupblup]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by blupblup
 


I agree thats one of the best posts here (except that while the pictures may be upside down, the owner says the object is not).


skeptic1: Thanks for the effort. Middle-eastern? The con-fusion grows.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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Interesting..
my first reaction was: *laying the head horizontal and think about how it looks upside down..
*

then, i read the posts, recognizing that i am not alone.

So, please..

Can you turn your vase and make a new photo and post it here??? So we can see it???


thanks

Nia



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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not sure if anyone pointed this out because at the moment i dont have time to go through all the pages of responses so far, (apologies if my points are moot by now they probably are) but it appears to have been used in a fertility ritual of some sort..
the pictures are clearly of reproductive organs...
for some reason the styling of the artwork looks british or eastern european to my eye, the syle reminds me of the lions that are on some countries flags..

EDIT: the "bull" as suggested above is probably meant to be a double image; it is also a depiction of what the experts call a "Wang". it is about to go into the "vag", which has on either side of it intricate highheel boots.
from this perspective it is a guady piece produced for display in a bordello, or if it is ancient then it was used in a fertility ritual which may have involved intricate leg/footwear as part of the ritual dress.

or it is a crude joke, making out the female to be nothing more than a 'gina with legs.

[edit on 25-9-2008 by kidney thief]



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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i find it even more interesting now that the owner of this object said it's pictured right-side up and that it is indeed a torch.

i do not know about the other people on this thread, but i have never personally/visually seen an ancient/antique torch before, at all. we have all these antique vases we are comparing this object to, but are there any antique torches we can compare to?

especially since the owner claims it a torch, it definitely brings the spiritual more into the scene. why else would an ornate torch be made unless for a temple or for ritual?



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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More Chinese Ming for your viewing pleasure...notice the spiral design eh?


[edit on 25-9-2008 by seagrass]



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