Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act, page 6

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reply posted on 21-9-2008 @ 10:08 PM by justsomeboreddude

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Thanks for sharing. I like your answers. Well thought out and direct. Just want to share my opinion.

1.) Sounds Good. I agree with this.

Remember, the Great crash of 1929 was caused, in large part, by even lower margin requirements.

Yeah I do remember that or at least reading about it

2.) Not sure about this one. Is there enough precious commodities to back the currency we have on the open market? If so, how would we afford it?

3.) I agree. When I first heard of interest only loans my first thought was that is going to be a disaster. Not that I realized it would end up this big.

4.) If you are going to keep Social Security then I guess you would have to do this at some point. I would kind of favor eliminating it, because I dont think it should be governments role to force me to plan for my retirement their way. Maybe they could make it optional, and quit robbing it blind.

5.) I would be more liberal on this and say minimum wage for someone over 18 should be above poverty level wages lets call it a True Living Wage. Give free/subsidized day care to single parents (which I am). However, if you cant make it under this and you are not disabled in some way, then you get thrown in some govt work program and if you refuse that then you and your kids are SOL.

No work, no eat. I am kind of a fan of tough love.

6.) I am not sure this would work because I think the chinese could still undercut us. But maybe it is worth a try. I lean more towards cutting size of government and cutting taxes after you work it out. Also letting there be unions to negotiate wages, but cut out the stuff where companies cant fire lazy workers because of the unions. Also I would maybe lean toward the government subsidizing some factory modernization to increase productivity. Not sure about this because its kind of against everything else I stand for. Really my goal in that would be to use our technological advantage to get prices competitive with the Asian countries.

7.) See 6

8.) Totally agree and futhermore government contractors shouldnt have to be paid union wages. That is just plain stupid. Who pays more when they dont have to.

9.) Not sure I know enough to comment.

10.) Not sure I know enough to comment.

11.) What would you gain by doing this? Just curious.

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 12:59 AM by MidnightDStroyer

Biden is an idiot for saying that paying more taxes is patriotic.

Is it patriotic to give more financing to a tyrannical regime? Is it patriotice to keep paying for & supporting a government that's been officially declared as bankrupt since 1933, just so it can continue to grow out of all bounds? Is is patriotic to keep supporting a government that constantly & consistently violates the very laws that it's sworn to uphold? Is it patriotic to continue allowing the government to invade, invade, invade for more oil, simply to prop up the worthless debt-based economy? Is it patriotic to watch our tax dollars go to rescue banking institutes that should fail on their their own mistakes? Is it patriotic to watch our Supreme Law of the Land continue to erode under an unlawfully centralized government that no longer has any more need or use for its own Congress or Judiciary?

Yep, Biden is an idiot. And anyone who believes that idiot is too duped by a puppet-media to be able to think for themselves.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by MidnightDStroyer]

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 09:29 AM by grover

reply to post by semperfortis

The fact remains that money like power tends to concentrate upwards... trickle down economics is a lie... if there is no redistribution of wealth then class warfare becomes a reality not some right wing catch phrase.

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 02:38 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by justsomeboreddude

2.) Not sure about this one. Is there enough precious commodities to back the currency we have on the open market? If so, how would we afford it?

Actually, that is EXACTLY the beauty of backing the dollar with precious commodities. We wouldn't be able to just print money whenever congress or the Fed sees fit. Of course, that would mean that we would either need to obtain more of those commodities, or cut spending (what a novel idea that would be). We would be forced to make choices. Do we want to spend billions of dollars on earmarks, or for national defense, or health and human services? The US would actually HAVE to balance it's own budget, like millions of American families should be doing.

The present philosophy of just printing more money when we need it(which is exactly what is being done now, whether you realize it or not), is killing the value of savings, etc. Each time congress or the Fed does that, the money in bank accounts, IRA -CD's etc. is worth less.
Even if you don't understand how economics works, just go on CNBC TV and see what has happened to the dollar versus the EURO, and OIL since the announcement of the bailout. The dollar has weakened significantly versus the EURO, and Oil has shot back up from a low of $91 per barrel to $121 per barrel- in a few days. Check your wallet. Congress has just put their hands in it, to bail out the crooks.

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 05:26 PM by justsomeboreddude

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by justsomeboreddude

Actually, that is EXACTLY the beauty of backing the dollar with precious commodities. We wouldn't be able to just print money whenever congress or the Fed sees fit. Of course, that would mean that we would either need to obtain more of those commodities, or cut spending (what a novel idea that would be). We would be forced to make choices. Do we want to spend billions of dollars on earmarks, or for national defense, or health and human services? The US would actually HAVE to balance it's own budget, like millions of American families should be doing.

The present philosophy of just printing more money when we need it(which is exactly what is being done now, whether you realize it or not), is killing the value of savings, etc. Each time congress or the Fed does that, the money in bank accounts, IRA -CD's etc. is worth less.
Even if you don't understand how economics works, just go on CNBC TV and see what has happened to the dollar versus the EURO, and OIL since the announcement of the bailout. The dollar has weakened significantly versus the EURO, and Oil has shot back up from a low of $91 per barrel to $121 per barrel- in a few days. Check your wallet. Congress has just put their hands in it, to bail out the crooks.

I could see backing it with commodities for future printed currency, but what would we do about all the unbacked currency we have printed since we went off the gold standard?

I am for just about anything that would curtail their spending. I hate to admit it but I voted for Bush because I thought he would be the best bet for shrinking the size and expense of government. I certainly missed the boat on that one. He spends money like water. Its his answer to everything. Who spends billions of dollars to rebuild a city 18 feet under sea level when the oceans are rising (albeit slowly), and they get hit by a decent sized hurrican every year or two. I dont understand why he doesnt say here is a nice piece of a federal park in say Montana you can all rebuild on.

I do realize they are just printing money like drunken sailors at a house of ill repute. Also, I do realize how much the value of our currency has dropped related to other foreign currencies, and how this ties to printing more money at will, over debtedness, existing financial crisis, etc.. This definitely is reflected in oil prices because now it takes more currency to purchase the same amount of oil or anything else for that matter.

I cant believe they just nationalized a good portion of the banking industry. I guess we have decided capitalism is too good for us now. I have about had enough. I just think they should let it all take its natural course. If there is another depression then so be it. It wont last forever. This country needs emergency financial surgery and the people responsible for this housing mess should be prosecuted Chinese style. I think you know what I mean.

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 07:31 PM by ProfEmeritus

reply to post by justsomeboreddude

You are correct. We have dug a VERY deep hole, with an 11.5 TRILLION dollar deficit. I'm not sure we can recover that deficit very easily. However, regardless, we have to stop adding to it. The proposals I made are a first step.
Yes, I also voted for Bush, but I'm not sure that the alternative would have been any better.

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 11:43 PM by justsomeboreddude

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Alright I guess we have beat this to death. It was nice knowing you. Good luck in your efforts toward change. Personally, I am going to start figuring out how I am going to do my part to change. I think you have some good ideas. Hopefully, you can convince others toward accepting the same ideas. I learned a few things from our talk. Thanks.

reply posted on 22-9-2008 @ 11:45 PM by semperfortis

reply to post by grover

I'm assuming you can prove that as ever reputable economist in the world disagrees with you

Or was it just your opinion?

Semper

reply posted on 23-9-2008 @ 08:21 AM by whaaa

Originally posted by semperfortis
reply to post by grover

I'm assuming you can prove that as ever reputable economist in the world disagrees with you

Or was it just your opinion?

Semper

Not quite every reputable economist is in agreement.

delong.typepad.com...
www.nytimes.com...
pages.stern.nyu.edu...

[edit on 23-9-2008 by whaaa]

reply posted on 23-9-2008 @ 08:28 AM by grover

reply to post by semperfortis

There are a lot of economists who disagree with the whole premise but I am sure you won't consider them as valid sources unless they are conservative economists... but even then some conservative economists disagree with the whole notion.

reply posted on 23-9-2008 @ 10:50 AM by whaaa

From what I understand about "trickle down" or "VooDoo" economics; deregulation is a key component. Well that worked out well.

Check out CNN, MSNBC, FOX now!!!

[edit on 23-9-2008 by whaaa]

reply posted on 23-9-2008 @ 11:48 AM by Sublime620

reply to post by whaaa

Correct. Voodoo economics, in my opinion, is a representation of normative economics. It represents what should happen, but not what does happen.

reply posted on 24-9-2008 @ 03:44 AM by MidnightDStroyer

Originally posted by jpm1602
I've got your Patriot message right here. Throw these bums out of office, get out of Iraq and take care of our infrastructure at home.
I'd be more than happy to join up on the throw the bums out brigade.

The Kick Then All Out Project

Silliness aside, I don't think that would do any good...Bush has already "immunized" the Executive Branch from Congressional & Judicial oversight in very nearly all ways. Between the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act & everything related/linked to these...& the Treasury Secretary's new immunities surrounding this "bailout" of Bear Sterns (a few years ago) & AIG, two Branches of the government are pretty much gutted, helpless, useless & expendable as far as the White House is concerned. It won't matter to the President (whether Bush declares Martial Law & suspends the elections or whether either major candidate takes the Office), the structure of tyranny is already in place & whoever is President can simply disband the other two Branches at his leisure.

Originally posted by Sublime620
We're basically in a holy war, and you are upset because he thinks that his religion teaches people to care about their neighbors?

That's your whole point...And mine as well: With the government's new & ever-bigger role in interfering with the People & their lives/choices, they've effectively declared WAR on us! It's okay to care about your neighbors, but not to the point where you let the government steal it from you with the threat of violence to give your money away to those who probably don't deserve your choice of charities. We don't need anything that will feed a bigger government...We need a smaller government that doesn't seek to interfere in everything that everybody does. Every time the government steps beyond its expressely limited powers, it screws up.
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive." -- Thomas Jefferson
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." -- Thomas Jefferson

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
we should be glad we have taxes!!!!

to rip off carlos mencia what would our country be like without taxes. lets look at the countries that don't have taxes. wanna bitch about not having electricity in your house. what do you think pays for that infrastructure?...your taxes.

That's local taxes that pay for those utilities & infrastructure, not federal taxes. You're operating on a whole different level than the topic of the OP...Which concerns more talk about federal taxes. But then again, the federal government taxes States by apportioning (according to population) anyway...And then, whenever States get into financial trouble, they have to go beg the feds to give back some of the money that was paid by State taxes, always loaded with conditions/regulations & restrictions/regulations...Oh, did I mention the excessive regulations (

) that always wind up stealing more Constitutionally-delegated State Powers & State Sovereignty in violation of the 10th Amendment? It's no wonder that Arizona & Oklahoma are re-asserting themselves...Which is something that more States should be doing.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Wanna have a kick ass military?

BTW, everything the feds "pay for" is all from loans from the Federal Reserve Bank...A privately-owned & operated cartel of foreign banking interests (just run an Search ATS using the keywords "Federal Reserve" & "Fed Res" to get the idea). Our own "private" taxes that they "collect" goes to partially-paying the interest on the loans "granted" to the feds. Under normal & reasonable circumstances, our military should be paid for by the State-apportionment taxes...And our States still have to support our State Militias too!

If the People all stopped paying federal taxes & keeps the feds from increasing the apportioned States taxes, then more of your money would remain local to improve local conditions.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
2.) would eliminate the Federal Reserve as a separate private entity, with only Federal Oversight. I would replace it by a return to a standard whereby our money is BACKED by precious commodities such as gold, platinum, silver, etc.

JFK tried to wean us off the Fed Res with Executive Order 11110 & it was working!...Until he was shot, the Fed Res pulled JFK's Treasury Notes out of circulation & every President since JFK had completely "ignored" EO 1110.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Somehow I don't see the upper echelon of American society readily surrendering their fare share to increased taxation. It will fall upon those that can least attribute to it.

Under Biden's "tax the rich plan," all the rich will do is write-off the "expenses" of higher taxes & pass it down to us by raising the cost of whatever they want us to buy from them! Regardless of the results of any such "patriotic taxation" on the overall economy in the US, the core fact remains that the US Government is nothing less than a Mob of Criminals fleecing the People at every turn & has been since before WW2!
That's some helluva Republic government guaranteed (Article 4, Section 4) under their Constitutional Oaths of Office (Article 2, Section 1, Clauses 8 & 9, plus Article 6, Clause 3) we have here, hmmm?

reply posted on 24-9-2008 @ 04:01 AM by Loki

reply to post by RRconservative

In response to your title:

Yes, I agree that it is patriotic, at this particular time, our country is in dire straits. We have a debt that is out of control and keeps getting bigger daily. And then bills are passed to keep spending more money we don't have.
Paying more taxes to help your country out = Personal Sacrifice for your country = the definition of patriotism.

In response to the rest:

The Tax Cuts proposed by Obama are the complete opposite of the ever-lingering floater that is Reaganomics. Trickle-down just doesn't work, the disparity between classes has done nothing but widen since RWR.

The tax increases aren't even approaching painful to those who are going to get hit with them. Especially considering that there are countless people in this country making less than 15k a year, I think that people making over 250k can tighten their belts and get over it. There is no opportunity in this country where there is no money, it has been proven over and over again for the last century. Money is the grease that makes the gears turn, and the lower/middle class is comprised of a whole lot of gears. I have _far_ more use (and respect, for that matter) for the Grill Cook making 15k than the obsequious business executive or Lawyer making more than the combined income of everyone in a given cafe.

I've long said that this country needs more tax brackets. If we had brackets up to a million dollars, and a new bracket every 2 million after that, we could really do the things for the country that we need to do, which brings me back to the words spoken by Joe Biden. What better way to be patriotic?

Your tax money goes to support Schools, Student Loans(good in concept, sometimes abused) Public Works, Municipal establishments(Local, so unaffected by the federal tax)

Obama has laid out his plans for his presidency. People then asked where the money would come from. Now we know. It's coming from people that can afford it, not people who can't. Plain and simple.

reply posted on 3-10-2008 @ 10:31 PM by secretstash

I am such an idiot! My eyes have finally been opened and I can see why Biden says paying more taxes is patriotic. Paying taxes in the first place is voluntary and we are dumbly handing our money over to the government like morons because we have all been brainwashed. This is my new favorite website

I started here

Constitutional issues of taxation

But this one really opened my eyes

Employment taxes

26 USC §3401(a) – Wages – For purposes of this chapter, the term ''wages'' means all remuneration for services performed by an employee…

Employee – For purposes of this chapter, the term ''employee'' includes an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term ''employee'' also includes an officer of a [federally owned or controlled] corporation.

The term employee applies only to government workers and wages are only earned by employees.

The rest of us dumb schmucks are paying taxes because we give people our SSN and then file a stupid return. Thereby voluntarily paying taxes.

Crap! We are all extremely patriotic because we are voluntarily handing over a quarter of our paychecks every week.

I don't think I am going to sleep for about a week. This site is rather extensive and I have a lot more research to do.

If this is the case however I don't intend on ever paying taxes again.

I realize I may be behind on the times and perhaps some of you have already read this, that being the case, what other sites are out there that I may be missing?

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